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USSR invades Ukraine. (11 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alan Dugdales Moustache
  • Start date Feb 22, 2022
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Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 30, 2022
  • #3,676
Flying Fokker said:
The Rat I smell is for them to be dropping tactical Nuclear weapons from a distance. Removing their own troops from the immediate danger area.
Click to expand...
I have to laugh at the title " tactical" nuclear weapon. As if it's soft and cuddly almost.
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,677



 
Reactions: Kieranp96 and duffer

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,678
Otis said:
View attachment 24287


Click to expand...

'Friendly fire' are fairly common instances in war.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,679
Marty said:
'Friendly fire' are fairly common instances in war.
Click to expand...
They are, in the 1991 Kuwait battle, USA were responsible for a quarter of USA deaths!
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,680
Refused to obey orders too?

Seems Putin treats his troops like shit
 

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,681
Otis said:
Refused to obey orders too?

Seems Putin treats his troops like shit
Click to expand...

Doesn't say 'refused to obey orders' does it. Just 'tensions', which could be anything, disagreement on tactics, investment, colour of uniform or even as something as petty as the choice of restaurant for tonight's meal. The lack of clarity almost certainly means it's either made up or insignificant.

You're being played like a fiddle by Western governments and the media. The west's propaganda machine is just as much in full swing as the Russian's. As the old saying goes 'believe half of what you see and none of what you hear'.
 
Reactions: bezzer and Otis
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,682
Marty said:
Doesn't say 'refused to obey orders' does it.
Click to expand...


Erm, that's exactly what it says
 
Reactions: Kieranp96, duffer, Otis and 1 other person
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,683
Marty said:
Doesn't say 'refused to obey orders' does it. Just 'tensions', which could be anything, disagreement on tactics, investment, colour of uniform or even as something as petty as the choice of restaurant for tonight's meal. The lack of clarity almost certainly means it's either made up or insignificant.

You're being played like a fiddle by Western governments and the media. The west's propaganda machine is just as much in full swing as the Russian's. As the old saying goes 'believe half of what you see and none of what you hear'.
Click to expand...
Erm, second bullet point does indeed say refused to obery orders...
 
Reactions: Kieranp96, Otis and RegTheDonk
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,684
As an aside, just had a browse through friendly fire incidents.

Companies A and C of the 3rd Battalion, Parachute Regiment, British Army engaged each other in an hour-long firefight in the Falkland Islands involving heavy weapons and artillery strikes, resulting in five deaths and three injuries.
Click to expand...

I just wonder what happened after the hour for them to realise they were shooting at the wrong people!
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,685
Marty said:
Doesn't say 'refused to obey orders' does it.
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what the second bullet point on the screen shot says - "Russaim troops have at times refused to obey orders"



Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
 
Reactions: Otis

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,686
As yes, my mistake, even so, anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,687
Marty said:
As yes, my mistake, even so, anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's.
Click to expand...

Well that's just not true is it.

The West has had very good intelligence on the war.
 
Reactions: Kieranp96

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,688
Marty said:
As yes, my mistake, even so, anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's.
Click to expand...
"My mistake" would have sufficed.
 
Reactions: stupot07

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,689
PVA said:
Well that's just not true is it.

The West has had very good intelligence on the war.
Click to expand...
I would always be more likely to believe something coming from Western sources than from Russian.

Everything that comes out of Russia is controlled and state validated.

Here, besides governments (which I am always a little dubious of), you also have military history people, ex generals etc.

Sure, we can take things with a pinch of salt, and there is no way I believe everything said by the UK or US, but there is a wealth of info out there from this side and that involves multiple countries. There will always be a varying degree of opinion and disagreement on the info coming out from pretty much anywhere outside of Russia
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,690
PVA said:
Well that's just not true is it.

The West has had very good intelligence on the war.
Click to expand...
The first casualty of war is truth, it would be incredibly naive to assume that propaganda is one sided
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1, stupot07, Otis and 3 others

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,691
fernandopartridge said:
The first casualty of war is truth, it would be incredibly naive to assume that propaganda is one sided
Click to expand...
Very true.

Russia is renowned though for steering so well away from the truth, it's almost laughable.
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,692
fernandopartridge said:
The first casualty of war is truth, it would be incredibly naive to assume that propaganda is one sided
Click to expand...

Of course.

But we know that Russia's propaganda is on another level, and to say that "anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's" is plainly not true.
 
Reactions: stupot07 and duffer

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,693
fernandopartridge said:
The first casualty of war is truth, it would be incredibly naive to assume that propaganda is one sided
Click to expand...

exactly
 

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,694
PVA said:
Of course.

But we know that Russia's propaganda is on another level, and to say that "anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's" is plainly not true.
Click to expand...

It was only last week that the US government were paying tictokers to blame the increase in fuel prices on Russia.

Consume and obey.
 
Reactions: shmmeee and Grendel
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,695
The key word is anything.

You said "anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's"

That is not true.
 
Reactions: stupot07, Otis and duffer

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,696
Example of the Russian side. Some military pundit over there has said that not only is the campaign going very well, but it will go down in history as a shining example of how all wars will be carried out in the future. That's how successful it is

Well, it is clearly not going to plan is it. Some stuff from the Russian side is absolutely unbelievable
 

Marty

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,697
PVA said:
The key word is anything.

You said "anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's"

That is not true.
Click to expand...

Well, it has been the west pushing video game footage as real front line videos, or maybe the ghost of Kiev, You know, the fighter pilot who shot down 6 enemy jets in an afternoon before going home to have an orgy with supermodels in his hot tub. The west are just as bad as anyone with the propaganda.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,698
PVA said:
The key word is anything.

You said "anything coming out the west is just as much bullshit as Russia saving Ukraine from Nazi's"

That is not true.
Click to expand...
I agree. Big difference between anything and everything, so I never take anything as fact, but think maybe there is some truth in it l, whereas, with Russia, I expect it all to be total bullshit
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,699
Marty said:
It was only last week that the US government were paying tictokers to blame the increase in fuel prices on Russia.

Consume and obey.
Click to expand...

Hmm. That last bit is the kind of phrase that I'd expect to hear from your common or garden conspiracy theorist.

I'm all in favour of being cynical about what our Government posits as fact, especially given that the PM is a proven liar. But I suspect that's not really where you are on this and perhaps you're leaning more towards the tinfoil hat YouTube brigade. Consume and Obey?

Here's an alternative phrase; keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out.

In the meantime, have you got a link to that TikTok story you mention?
 
Reactions: SlowerThanPlatt and stupot07

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,700
Marty said:
Well, it has been the west pushing video game footage as real front line videos, or maybe the ghost of Kiev, You know, the fighter pilot who shot down 6 enemy jets in an afternoon before going home to have an orgy with supermodels in his hot tub. The west are just as bad as anyone with the propaganda.
Click to expand...
Those are two great examples of free media working as it should.

They have heard these stories and seen the footage so put it out in the public eye. Then other arms of the media have investigated them and proven them to be false and so released that to the public.

I don't even particularly trust our media and there is a lot of fog of war and propaganda from both sides but the notion that media in the west = media in Russia is absurd.
 
Reactions: duffer, PVA and Otis
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,701
Marty said:
Well, it has been the west pushing video game footage as real front line videos, or maybe the ghost of Kiev, You know, the fighter pilot who shot down 6 enemy jets in an afternoon before going home to have an orgy with supermodels in his hot tub. The west are just as bad as anyone with the propaganda.
Click to expand...

Yeah the Ghost of Kyiv thing is almost certainly untrue.

Assuming it is untrue, you really think a made up fighter pilot to boost morale is as bad as justifying the killing of women and children as ‘de-nazifying’?

And anyway the Ghost of Kyiv stuff came from Ukraine, not the West.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,702
PVA said:
Yeah the Ghost of Kyiv thing is almost certainly untrue.

Assuming it is untrue, you really think a made up fighter pilot to boost morale is as bad as justifying the killing of women and children as ‘de-nazifying’?

And anyway the Ghost of Kyiv stuff came from Ukraine, not the West.
Click to expand...
We know there is a lot of propaganda from the Ukrainian side.

My new missus (have to mention the "new" bit, because obviously old missus is Russian and it would be very confusing) keeps sending me stuff from the Ukrainian side, which is clearly just propaganda.
 
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Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,703
I think the key is to not just take one one piece of information from one source and treat it as gospel.

Take in multiple sources, give things time to settle and assess.
 
Reactions: baldy, Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Otis and 2 others

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,704
PVA said:
Yeah the Ghost of Kyiv thing is almost certainly untrue.

Assuming it is untrue, you really think a made up fighter pilot to boost morale is as bad as justifying the killing of women and children as ‘de-nazifying’?

And anyway the Ghost of Kyiv stuff came from Ukraine, not the West.
Click to expand...
Here you go. Perfect example.

Russia universally sing from the same hymn sheet (apart from the few independent voices, who are either shut down or arrested).

So, the US intelligence said the invasion was happening and the French intelligence said it was not.

It's not one universal voice over here, as it is in Russia, so we can form a much more reasoned opinion, as we have varying sources

 
Last edited: Mar 31, 2022
Reactions: duffer

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,705
Deleted member 5849 said:
As an aside, just had a browse through friendly fire incidents.



I just wonder what happened after the hour for them to realise they were shooting at the wrong people!
Click to expand...
The Ghurkas came back with pink ears rather than tanned trophies?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,706
Otis said:
Example of the Russian side. Some military pundit over there has said that not only is the campaign going very well, but it will go down in history as a shining example of how all wars will be carried out in the future. That's how successful it is

Well, it is clearly not going to plan is it. Some stuff from the Russian side is absolutely unbelievable
Click to expand...
Maybe he was referring to Ukrainian tactics not Russian
 
Reactions: duffer

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,707
If anyone is confused why refugees arrive by rubber boats here’s your answer.


There is no route for asylum in the UK.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, stupot07 and duffer

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,708
Role of the media in war always different. Russia and Ukraine aren't going to be broadcasting anything that shows them in a negative situation - for political and morale reasons.
 
Reactions: RegTheDonk and Sky Blue Pete

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,709
tisza said:
Role of the media in war always different. Russia and Ukraine aren't going to be broadcasting anything that shows them in a negative situation - for political and morale reasons.
Click to expand...
True, but then Russian media don't broadcast anything negative about the regime there anyway, at any other time either.
 
Reactions: duffer and CCFCSteve

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 31, 2022
  • #3,710
Marty said:
It was only last week that the US government were paying tictokers to blame the increase in fuel prices on Russia.

Consume and obey.
Click to expand...

Ironically this isn’t true.
 
Reactions: Otis, duffer and Sky Blue Pete
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