Ukip (2 Viewers)

Tad

Member
So...what are people's thoughts on them?

Personally, UK politics needs a new approach and they do seem a lot more direct and less waffle. I agree with them on the EU. It's a circus and we're the clowns that pay into. The org is laughable really. It's gone far beyond what it was set out to do and has arguably damaged the UK for years to come.
 

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Houchens Head

Fairly well known member from Malvern
Top party! I voted for them! Get out of the EU NOW!!! Farage for PM!
 

Voice_of_Reason

Well-Known Member
Same here -- I voted UKIP.. fed up with the posh boys and the other lot who haven't a mention where they stand on Europe.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Just a more 'acceptable' version of the BNP.

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Tad

Member
Just a more 'acceptable' version of the BNP.

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How'd you work that out? Too much immagration is a bad thing. We've seen the results of this already, and that's not even their main objective. Taking back power to control our own country is.

Sorry, but they are nothing like the BNP. BNP wanted all foreign people out -even if they were born here but were black. Ukip don't. They just want better control. Calling them anything like that is quite revolting really.
 
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
Same here -- I voted UKIP.. fed up with the posh boys and the other lot who haven't a mention where they stand on Europe.

Clearly not too fed up with the Dulwich Public School educated Mr Farage.
 

Tad

Member
Clearly not too fed up with the Dulwich Public School educated Mr Farage.


...and? Your point?

That just proves he didn't get his head stuck up his arse like the rest of them.

I am a little concerned about their other policies mind. They've said they will stop wind turbines destroying the countryside, which I'm fine with, but surely they know something needs to be done. There are other, better, alternatives to renewable energy out there.
 
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Houchens Head

Fairly well known member from Malvern
Just a more 'acceptable' version of the BNP.

Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2

What a bloody stupid comment Torch! I'm surprised at you! Go and stand in the corner!!
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
Tbh I have no idea what many of their policies are. They are a protest and ultimately pointless party who will do nothing more than split the Tory vote and ensure years of Labour rule and overspending to come.

Whether you are left or right a sweeping move to one side can not be good as the opposition needs to remain reasonably strong so that a government can not simply railroad their more extreme beliefs.
 

Tad

Member
They got votes from everyone. Not just Tory.

The speech later today should be interesting. Ukip have damaged the other three parties and I bet certain things will change now in an attempt to get voters back.
 
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torchomatic

Well-Known Member
UKiP are an acceptable face of xenophobia which in turn is a more acceptable face of racism.

Their policies are all about sending the country back to what they perceive as its golden era (1950s). It may well have been a golden era for white middle aged, middle class, able bodied men, but not for a lot of people. They are a party for people who don’t think the Tories are right wing enough.

One of their candidates even called for the compulsory abortion of disabled children. OK, so not all of them will feel the same, but for a candidate to feel “comfortable” saying something like that should really set the alarm bells ringing. However, they are all for taking out disabled children from mainstream schooling. They want to farm them out to special schools. Out of sight and all that.

I’m more than happy for UKiP wanting to damage and split the Tory vote, but I shudder at the thought of them ever being in power. Thankfully though, I doubt that will ever happen.

You should take a look at their policies. They bask in the luxury of telling us what they’d like to do without actually have to cost and pay for us. As I said in my first paragraph there’s a real “nostalgia” feel about them; a grammar school in every town, repealing the smoking in public places act, cutting red tape and “non jobs” and bizarrely cyclists who would to pay for parking and walking their bikes across busy roundabouts to prevent "unacceptable delays to traffic".

A bunch of ultra conservative little Englanders
 
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torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Another moronic UKiP voter, I presume. My Dad voted for them last week and I told him the same!


Another moronic comment !
 

Ashdown1

New Member
Wrong again, they weren't standing in my locality ! Your presumptions make you look dafter with every passing day !
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Wrong again, they weren't standing in my locality ! Your presumptions make you look dafter with every passing day !

And youve not voted for them in the past or in the future.

I am daft, but not as daft as someone who sticks up for them.

IMHO, of course.

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Houdi

Well-Known Member
UKiP are an acceptable face of xenophobia which in turn is a more acceptable face of racism.

Their policies are all about sending the country back to what they perceive as its golden era (1950s). It may well have been a golden era for white middle aged, middle class, able bodied men, but not for a lot of people. They are a party for people who don’t think the Tories are right wing enough.

One of their candidates even called for the compulsory abortion of disabled children. OK, so not all of them will feel the same, but for a candidate to feel “comfortable” is saying something like that should really set the alarm bells ringing. However, they are all for taking out disabled children from mainstream schooling. They want to farm them out to special schools. Out of sight and all that.

I’m more than happy for UKiP wanting to damage and split the Tory vote, but I shudder at the thought of them ever being in power. Thankfully though, I doubt that will ever happen.

You should take a look at their policies. They bask in the luxury of telling us what they’d like to do without actually have to cost and pay for us. As I said in my first paragraph there’s a real “nostalgia” feel about them; a grammar school in every town, repealing the smoking in public places act, cutting red tape and “non jobs” and bizarrely cyclists who would to pay for parking and walking their bikes across busy roundabouts to prevent "unacceptable delays to traffic".

A bunch of ultra conservative little Englanders
Well we certainly don't have a golden generation level just now do we.A national debt measured in trillions,unfunded provisions for public sector pensions,an utterly corrupt political class,the state slaughter of 1200 plus at Mid Staff,a huge and growing underclass.
We currently pay over £50 million a day to be a member of a club,which impoveriishing people across Europe.Spain with near 30% unemployment,and near60% youth unemployment,with huge debt levels,Greece a virtual basket case,the people of Cyprus having their savings stolen,and under exchange controls,which breaches the Treaty of Rome.Fraud and a huge democratic defecit,no wonder people not only in the UK but across Europe are turning their back on the EU.We pay not for 1 EU parliament,not 2,but apparently 3 parliaments.1 in Brussels,1 in Strasbourg,and 1 apparently in Luxembourg.
As for some of their candidates views,well just google Labour List 25,and indeed some Tories with very dodgy past,(Leon Brittain).
 

Tad

Member
And youve not voted for them in the past or in the future.

I am daft, but not as daft as someone who sticks up for them.

IMHO, of course.

Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2

I think a lot of people have 2 huge issues with the other main stream parties. The first being the EU and the second being immagration. There are geniue issues here not being looked at or allowing us our say. The Ukip are giving us a chance to sort this out, while the others whimper away.

It's not racist to talk and deal with immagration, it's just plain stupid not too. Every country you allow in has an effect in many different ways. I'm not just talking about infrastructure, it also has an effort on people born in this country and there way of life. In the past, when people question this, they would get called a racist etc. That is simply wrong. They have a right to live the way they want in they're country.
 
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I'mARealWizard

New Member
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I'mARealWizard

New Member
I think a lot of people have 2 huge issues with the other main stream parties. The first being the EU and the second being immagration. There are geniue issues here not being looked at or allowing us our say. The Ukip are giving us a chance to sort this out, while the others whimper away.


Not making light of the following events, but a young angry Austrian fed this mindset and desire in a country that faced economic hardship after an economically disastrous World War...
 

Ashdown1

New Member
And youve not voted for them in the past or in the future.

I am daft, but not as daft as someone who sticks up for them.

IMHO, of course.

Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2

That's a classic, even by your standards 'You've not voted for them in the future' ??????:D...................................
 

Tad

Member
Not making light of the following events, but a young angry Austrian fed this mindset and desire in a country that faced economic hardship after an economically disastrous World War...

That's different. Ukip aren't trying to push or kick people out. They simple want better control over a situation that could do more damage then good.
 
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torchomatic

Well-Known Member
I was on my phone! That's my excuse anyway. "or will vote for them in the future?"

That's a classic, even by your standards 'You've not voted for them in the future' ??????:D...................................
 

Tad

Member
Yes. If history teaches us anything, it's not to learn any lessons from it...

We don't anyway. We're in the same sort of problems we've been in before right now. There's wars still going on over the same stupid things and dictators still in power.

What your talking about won't happen though. We're in a different world now.
 

I'mARealWizard

New Member
We don't anyway. We're in the same sort of problems we've been in before right now. There's wars still going on over the same stupid things and dictators still in power.

What your talking about won't happen though. We're in a different world now.


I'm glad that there are people around that have your confidence.

I'm interested to read between the lines and see that you could envisage a situation where someone could attempt for it to happen.

I just wonder how close to that line you are comfortable to get before finding that line right before your eyes?
 

Tad

Member
I'm glad that there are people around that have your confidence.

I'm interested to read between the lines and see that you could envisage a situation where someone could attempt for it to happen.

I just wonder how close to that line you are comfortable to get before finding that line right before your eyes?

I don't quite get what you mean to be honest. These seem like two completely different things. Ukip aren't saying only certain people can live or anything. They're simple saying we need to gain control of this issue.
 
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rob9872

Well-Known Member
They're not Tad, but that doesn't please his sensationalist desire to decredit them. Never let the truth get in the way of a good rant.
 

Tad

Member
They're not Tad, but that doesn't please his sensationalist desire to decredit them. Never let the truth get in the way of a good rant.

Well, I don't want a war or anthing. Just want us out of the corrupt EU and our power back. We've given up everything to be in the EU. We do need better controls on immagration I feel. Ukip are the only ones offering that. The other three have had a chance and they whimpered away. This I feel is why ukip is getting so much support.
 
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I'mARealWizard

New Member
I don't quite get what you mean to be honest. These seem like two completely different things. Ukip aren't saying only certain people can live or anything. They're simple saying we need to gain control of this issue.

They are a party built around establishing an imperialist approach to the UK. A defining of what it is acceptable to be counted as 'British' through their exclusion of those that aren't "native" to British Isles.

It's hard to see how a party like this can not be seen as xenophobic. It is certainly a party that is not comfortable with cultural, racial or social integration based upon their published published comments regarding gay marriage, immigration, the sovereign right of the UK and integration into a common European community (as opposed to an economic community).

It is no coincidence that during times of austerity and economic hardship, the right wing extremists stir up anti-foreign attitudes through various media and with different tactics.

It is understandable that when times are truly difficult for people, fears about job security and standards of living are questioned and pockets of society feel threatened. But thoughts, as we only know to well on this site, do not equate to facts. And fear is something that very easy to tap into and use as a way to not only control people, but as a route to becoming influential to controlling people.

Hitler's National party, as I'm sure many including yourself know, came to rise up through Germany's political system at a time of severe economic hardship. There was low self esteem for the country as well as self worth. The humiliation of the end of the World War and the consequences of this led to anger that was easy to manipulate, harness and direct.

Of course, history tells us now with the benefit of hindsight, where that was directed, and particularly at who.

It's so very easy to see how the Jews could be blamed for relative states of affluence whilst the majority of German nationals continued to suffer.

And for the moment, this is where I believe the parallels that can be drawn can end.

How do I see UKIP relating to this? Very easily. Although, not to the extremes by any stretch. But there is an unhealthy 'blaming' of other cultures and societies for problems that the UK currently sees itself addressing.

Do I think Nigel Farage is an Adolf Hitler? Of course I don't. But from a sociological perspective, it is fascinating to be able to draw some parallels between the two events.

My earlier point, which I failed to make clear, was about how far you think UKIP can go under this 'protest banner' that they currently go by, and how comfortable you would feel with any further progress they would make.

Removing the UKIP economically and socially from the EU, in my opinion, is backward thinking and against where the global society in which the UK finds itself will inevitably end up.
Will shouting at it and fighting it in hopes of a return to the British Empire change things? Not in the slightest. It will do more harm than good to any company considering investing in businesses here.

I don't see where UKIP has to move forward. It is a right wing party, and people are naturally free to follow those politics if they believe in them. But the party speaks on a platform that marginalizes people, encourages an insular attitude from it's subjects, and puts up barriers through a very hard line party leader.

Given the support that the party received recently, it will be very interesting to see which direction the party moves in and how it attempts to attract more voters.

I don't believe for a moment that UKIP is a serious threat to the long term political direction of the country, where most people would probably identify with being moderates and fairly close to the 'centre ground'. But their very existence and thriving support base is a worry for those of us who would describe themselves as being more liberal and progressive.

I hope I explained myself better this time :D
 

Tad

Member
Now I understand, thanks :)

I can see the comparison now.

I don't think they are blaming immigrates though. No-one is. They are just saying that is it really wise to keep the doors wide open when we are struggling as a country. As for the EU, the cons outweigh the pros really.

If there was a way to stay in the EU purely for ease of trade, it would be worth it. But they're actually telling us what we can and cannot do now. They're seeping in to our politics. That's what's completely wrong.
 
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I'mARealWizard

New Member
Now I understand, thanks :)
But they're actually telling us what we can and cannot do now. They're seeping in to our politics. That's what's completely wrong.

Just out of interest, why do you think that is wrong?

Do our European neighbours have different morals to us? Are their societies based upon principles that are so different to ours?
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Hmmm, interesting this one, there's a lot of hype around UKIP at the minute, but they don't have a single parliamentary seat, I doubt they'll get a single seat in 2015 because pragmatic right voters will vote Tory.

As a socialist, I disagree with UKIP and what they stand for, but, UKIP have a very charismatic leader in Nigel Farage who holds own in debating, he performs well on BBCQT, but, that doesn't mean he's right (as in correct, not side of the political spectrum). After all, Hitler was charismatic, of course I'm not comparing the two. I agree with what I'mARealWizard and what he is saying. What annoys me is that UKIP pose as a party for the 'people', what a lie, they are a rightist party that will favour corporations and the top 1% and do little for the working man, Farage is a wolf in sheep's clothing, a public-school who will no doubt continue the old school tie.

UKIP is a one-issue party, EU membership, and since the death of the milk snatcher, Farage has tried to hijack the image that his party is a Thatcherite party which would attract right voters who are disillusioned with Cameron's quasi Disraeli-Thatcherite regime (a mix of the 2).

Mr Farage is a scaremonger, it isn't the EU that has made this 'open door' immigration policy, it is the incompetence of the UK Border Agency and other related bodies that has contributed to this 'problem', look at France, EU member, yet, has tough immigration laws.

Economically, Osbourne and Farage will scapegoat the EU for economic stagnation, but Germany is prosperous, yet are at the centre of bailing out other countries, I think Osbourne needs to accept austerity is failing for Britain, a more Keynesian policy (spent on worthwhile projects etc.) is needed to promote growth, the UKIP intend to cut more which would no doubt bring suffering on ordinary people. I fear for the NHS' safety in any of the 3 major parties, who have already started privatising the NHS under our noses, but with UKIP, I can't see it surviving.

The Green's are a better vote and I hope they retain and expand their 1 parliamentary seat in 2015.

A vote for UKIP is a wasted vote anyway, there won't be a profound shift in power for the 3 large parties.

The EU is at cross-roads now anyway, it either needs to tighten control of its members and have more influence economic and social policy, or it will simply disintegrate. The EU is starting to fail somewhat since the EU has moved away from its leftist founding principles.
 
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Tad

Member
Just out of interest, why do you think that is wrong?

Do our European neighbours have different morals to us? Are their societies based upon principles that are so different to ours?

Cause each country has to handle things differently. Different economy, different infrastructure; different ways of life to be short. This is a rare case that the same rules cannot apply to everyone. We're also constantly giving them money when we're clearly being used. When Cameron asked to work on a new deal, we pracitally got shunned upon. Workers in every country have lost jobs because of this. Our fishing industry has been left a wreck due to us giving up our waters for European use.

The people with power weren't even voted in (dictatorship anyone?) - Most people have never heard of them.

They're allowing countries far worse then ours in and everyone else has to carry the burden.

There's also a lot of corruption in Europe. Do we really want to be involved?

Look what happened in Greece. Ran by the EU puppets now.
 
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
UKIP are as torch says classic little englanders, it is an apt phrase. They are certainly not BNP. Like it or not BNP will always appeal more to traditional dissafected socialist voters. UKip are a Tory protest group.

Without the leader they now have they'd be nothing. I don't know if they do repeats but on pinaars politics a couple of weeks ago when sir Godfrey someone or other decided to debate that anyone employing women of a child bearing age would be bonkers. That's the problem. They have a lot of sir godfreys.

It is however indicative of the state of British politics. I'd much rather be stuck in a lift (or a pub) with Farage than any of the others. If milliband or clegg where there I'd look to jump out. Milliband is as unelectable as kinnock. He will never be prime minister. Farage is a welcome distraction. Not to be taken seriously but it shows the serious state of politics that this discussion is even happening.
 

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