Tommy atkins,torch etc.. (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter valiant15
- Start date
That thread wouldn't wait for four years - it will appear four seconds after a take over is accepted.
I am not saying he was ideal, far from it.
All I am saying is that he was more pragmatic and knew that
A club has to "invest to accumulate".
When Sisu and he parted company things really began to unravel.
TommyAtkins
New Member
"A club has to "invest to accumulate"."
Disagree. You can only invest if you have the money in the first place. We do not have any money. To invest further means borrowing and placing the club further at risk.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Bit rich you lecturing over verbally attacking anyone. And yes, you're right I did have some understanding of SiSU when they first arrived and was thankful for them stepping in to save us. I thought they would offer a bright future, but I was wrong. If that's my ''crime'', then fair enough.
I don't attack anyone ( apart from valiant who gives as good as he gets) over their views on Thorn or SISU and I'd be surprised if you could conjure one up from somewhere.
Its a shame that for some being ''right'''over SISU is more important than our relegation.
I don't attack anyone ( apart from valiant who gives as good as he gets) over their views on Thorn or SISU and I'd be surprised if you could conjure one up from somewhere.
Its a shame that for some being ''right'''over SISU is more important than our relegation.
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We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
Guys lets not get personal.
1nilandwe...
Well-Known Member
Are SISU not a group of investors? Investors usually have a bit of money tucked away for a rainy day. We've been getting pissed on all season and they only found it in their hearts to offer us a cocktail umbrella.
LeamingtonBootBoy
New Member
No offence was meant Torchy....chill buddy...
I was just pointing out some facts around supporting SISU.....and to focus on your (rather weak) comeback, SISU are a cause of our relegation....surely we agree on that????? :facepalm:
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
No SISU are an hedgefund. They deal with investors cash on their behalf and in their best interests. If CCFC is not a good business to invest in then they would be irresponsible to do so. They do not neccesarily have cash stored away for a rainy day.
1nilandwe...
Well-Known Member
Well.....
They should. Did their mother's teach them nothing?
It makes me sad.
Can I just go to bed and would someone wake me up when all this has blown over?
Delboycov
Active Member
Much respect for that Godiva and I don't doubt that whatever our differing opinions on SISU and how they have (mis)managed the club over the last 5 years we are all feeling the same hurt today.
Ah that old cock and bull. Getting relegated and losing significant chunks of revenue streams while fixed overheads like rent remain static. This only means less and less money in an ever decreasing spiral. TA, your grasp on fiscal reality is childish.
TommyAtkins
New Member
Interesting how this thread has developed into a rational and considered exchange of opinions.
Then when you hear something accurate that challenges your narrative, you throw your toys out of the cot.
I am afraid the fiscal reality is that this club has no money to spend and therefore, nothing to invest.
Hiding behind cliched business statements delivered parrot-fashion doesn't disguise the real facts.
Of course, being relegated has reduced income. Dimebars all round. And that this will have a knock-on effect. But it is because we had no money that relegation has happened.
This is the fundamental point - where is the money supposed to come from?
Fancy asking the Co-op bank to lend us £20 million again.
Spending unsustainably caused this mess. You cannot speculate unless you have the money in the first place. End Ex
TommyAtkins
New Member
And this is the key point that so many people don't get.
SISU ran out of money and I would suggest ran out of will power as well.
SISU never cared, in the traditional sense, about CCFC. A bit naive to expect them to care now.
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
I don't think they ran out of will power. I think they realised that CCFC would need more investment than they were prepared to make for the size of the potential return.
skybluebeduff
Well-Known Member
so what happens now?
TommyAtkins
New Member
Thats the killer question, isn't it?
We still have to assets to sell and SISU can't find those crucial investors to generate funds, we will need to cut costs again this summer.
But a lot will depend on the rent and how the "talks" develop.
Neither the Council nor SISU have covered themselves in glory over this. This should have been discussed privately. Not scare-mongering in public.
We need to hope that Hoffman can deliver a bid. But it has to be more realistic than a £1.
At the moment, I would suggest administration is more likely than liquidation but it might depend on how spiteful SISU want to be.
Tommy Atkins is a big supporter of SISU, but has gone quiet now, a big WUM or just another poster who thinks he's smarter than the rest of us?
Then, why did they start to invest when they came in.?
Because they are also investors who try and turn ailing businesses round.
Then, when they saw that it wasn't going to be that easy they have dismantled the club.
It would have been more admirable (AND fiscally MORE sensible) if they had cut and run then. They're "asset" is now worth less than ever.
I am sorry TA but your analysis is utterly flawed.
TommyAtkins
New Member
And if you read the entire thread, you will see just how wrong you are.
Your grovelling apology is accepted in advance..
TommyAtkins
New Member
I am afraid that your analysis is utterly flawed.
Firstly, SISU are a hedge fund. They are reliant on finding investors, third parties if you like.
They had funds to invest, based on a plan proposed by Ranson. This money came from those investors.
To use your phrase - this was their speculation to accumulate on behalf of their investors.
Then when Ranson appeared to have wasted that investment (and we can argue about how much it really was another time) and the club was still struggling in the league and still losing money, investors began to back off or curtail that money.
The business was still ailing, with no sign of improvement. So the investors dried up.
Unclear about how much SISU are trying to recover and its debatable about when and HOW they might have cut and ran.
Nevertheless, the money dried up.
This is why SISU have been touting for investment. And failing. Because this club is not seen as a worthwhile investment for these third parties.
There is no money out there
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
If my "comeback" was "rather weak" then I hope you feel satisfied, villified and amused. Something to tell your grandkids about.
And as for chilling...with posters like you around it;s difficult to chill. Message boards are for posting opinions and people shouldn't be scared of having an opinion, because with you around there's a good chance they will be. You are obviously one of those very rare individuals who never gets anything wrong. Unfortunately, I'm not that, I stated SISU would be good for us they weren't. I also remember saying that Gary Bannister would be one of our best ever players....I might just keep my opinions to myself from now on...just incase in five years time you decide to cut and paste me.
And as for chilling...with posters like you around it;s difficult to chill. Message boards are for posting opinions and people shouldn't be scared of having an opinion, because with you around there's a good chance they will be. You are obviously one of those very rare individuals who never gets anything wrong. Unfortunately, I'm not that, I stated SISU would be good for us they weren't. I also remember saying that Gary Bannister would be one of our best ever players....I might just keep my opinions to myself from now on...just incase in five years time you decide to cut and paste me.
No offence was meant Torchy....chill buddy...
I was just pointing out some facts around supporting SISU.....and to focus on your (rather weak) comeback, SISU are a cause of our relegation....surely we agree on that????? :facepalm:
That's what your bank manager ses and then the phone rings and it's another credit card in the post.
There is always money out there for people with acumen and a bit of imagination. Sisu just aren't those sort of people.
They have failed at every single twist and turn of the way.
They are a sterile, flabby, inept and meaningless bunch of pen pushers. No wonder you're their no 1 apologist
;-)
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No, he was clueless. Ranson is the chief culprit in this. Hawking his investment buddies from club to club looking for his "project". Ultimately the "football man" knew little about football management. Employed failed or irrelevant managers (or in Thorns case his chum with no management experience at all) sanctioned idiotic transfer signings and commercially proved a disaster.
skybluehugh
New Member
Aren't Reading going to Make something like 100,000,000 for getting promoted. Seems like a fair bit of return to me
TommyAtkins
New Member
I had to laugh: the very fact that you haven't read and understood this thread proves you are wrong.
I have been warning about SISU for years. I warned fans they didn't care about the club when fans like you were taunting Southampton fans and imagining spending SISU's money on players in a drive for the Premiership.
I also warned that SISU might liquidate the club.
Badly wrong. So wrong your judgement is flawed.
This isn't asking for a credit card. This is finding investors.
SISU have run out of money from investors. That isn't necessarily their fault. Its because this club is not an attractive option for any investor.
Again amusingly, you think that the best option (your credit card analogy) is to plunge the club further into debt by borrowing more money.
SISU arent the only problem. I am afraid its fans like you who seem happy to destroy our club.
Here endeth the lesson
Haha, well we make each other laugh!
Of course, if you are a flabby, inept, pen pushing, jobs worth who thinks text a sub might be a good idea and that 750,000 for Ben Turner is good business then maybe you too would find it hard to find investors.
Face it TA - Sisu are toxic and incompetent.
Nobody with an ounce of common would climb into bed with them.
Maybe that is why you keep up the mantra "there is no money" - it's bollox, and you know it.
Of course, if you are a flabby, inept, pen pushing, jobs worth who thinks text a sub might be a good idea and that 750,000 for Ben Turner is good business then maybe you too would find it hard to find investors.
Face it TA - Sisu are toxic and incompetent.
Nobody with an ounce of common would climb into bed with them.
Maybe that is why you keep up the mantra "there is no money" - it's bollox, and you know it.
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
It has reportedly cost SISU £30million+ and the squad is awful. To spend £20/30mill more on decent players and then lets say £10mill on their wages for a season, your looking at £70mill spent to have a team like Leicester. They then need to buy the ground which I think was another £30mill (I may be wrong on this)? So they spend £90mill to get £100 mill back. Good investment or bad investment..... You decide.
The more we sink the greater the investment required.
BUT, and this is the consequence of Sisu.
The club has been turned into a shambles by their ineptitude. It continues to go from bad to worse.
They have alienated the fanbase to a man which is extraordinary given that five years ago they were our "saviours". Nobody will invest in this club until they are out of this club. The council won't entertain them. They are dishonest, faceless and entirely unsuited to running a football club. They simply have to go.
Sooner or later they will.
BUT, and this is the consequence of Sisu.
The club has been turned into a shambles by their ineptitude. It continues to go from bad to worse.
They have alienated the fanbase to a man which is extraordinary given that five years ago they were our "saviours". Nobody will invest in this club until they are out of this club. The council won't entertain them. They are dishonest, faceless and entirely unsuited to running a football club. They simply have to go.
Sooner or later they will.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Maybe so to an extent but to imply the ship was on course before hand is somewhat laughable. We have been hitting financial icebergs for a decade now. You seem to be under a curious misguided notion that people are waiting to put fortunes into the club. This is highly unlikely given our lack of revenue through the turnstiles.
"They have alienated our fanbase" refers I assume to decline in fanbase. Truth is we are actually now back to our natural fanbase after the stadium effect and lack of success. Our recent history suggests success on the pitch is very unlikely. Whoever owns the club will more than likely finance it prudently so not to repeat the errors of the last decade.
I've implied nothing.
My post refers to Sisu and their corrosive and divisive tenure.
Read what I say and stick to what's salient.
The club is at a crossroads.
Do we want to continue with the strategy of a a downward spiral of lies and ever diminishing returns?
Or do we want to build bridges with the community, get the council onside and start again?
It is too late for Sisu, they couldn't organise a village fete.
My post refers to Sisu and their corrosive and divisive tenure.
Read what I say and stick to what's salient.
The club is at a crossroads.
Do we want to continue with the strategy of a a downward spiral of lies and ever diminishing returns?
Or do we want to build bridges with the community, get the council onside and start again?
It is too late for Sisu, they couldn't organise a village fete.
Hmm is that really true?
In the championship we have lost around £6mil every year.
Relegation to league 1 means we will miss £4mil in revenue and also cut the player wages to max 55% of the overall turnover.
With lower numbers - less income and less costs - the losses will be dramatically lower and so requiring less investment to stay in business.
I know you probably mean 'investment to get promoted to Premier League', but our first aim have to be survival.
When the business is self sustainable and making a small profit, then the club will have a future and investors much more likely to become interested.