Thoughts on SISU (3 Viewers)

[Astute]

I have now slept on my ill feelings from last night. It is time to look at what has gone wrong. Some people need to open their minds and look at what has happened to us.

SISU were right to cut costs. I am in no doubt at all about that. We can't keep going on forever getting further into debt. The only problem is that they looked at our income and outgoings. Then decided to cut our outgoings to our income as quick as they could. They also made up the difference in transfer fees they received from our best players. If they would have done it slower the younger players would have had time to settle in and make the change from U18 to the Championship more gradually. We then would have had a stronger squad, the youngsters would have had seasoned pro's to learn from and we would have had more points on the board. The confidence would have been better with the players. As the younger players slowly became 1st team players they could have then sold players as they were replaced by youth.

This didn't happen. So what happened next? Too many positions taken up with inexperienced players. This led to mistakes, thus costing us points. This put us at the bottom of the table. Less fans turn up to home games. Less revenue. More cost cutting. More money needed to be raised. SISU then had a good idea. Let's sell the clubs top scorer...the only player scoring goals. This tells me they either know nothing about football, they were more interested in the finances coming from our club than the clubs future or maybe even both.

Now for next season. We will get less TV money. We will have lower gates. We still have the same overheads. Where is the money going to come from? We have a good academy. We now have players that came from it with a season of experience in the Championship. How many of these players will be sold and replaced with academy players? Maybe they now see us as a club like Carlisle who bring up decent young players then sell them.

I think we have two chances of getting out of this mess. We go on a decent run at the start of next season. The fans come back as we are winning. The income goes up with the gates. We should then not have to keep selling our better players like this season. This will be as long as SISU don't sell them all this closed season though. The second one is that SISU sell up and f*ck off. Then we are taken over by someone who understands football and knows you can't get success with a skeleton squad whilst selling all your best players.

 

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[Bennets Afro]

I hope SISU feck off to be honest. Won't be renewing my season ticket until they have!!!

That are to blame for this situation!!!!

 

[sportbilly]

I agree Astute, they were right to cut costs but they have been way to aggressive in doing this. To many youngsters blooded at once. (I think we have talented youngsters).
Also the comings and goings on the board of the football club have been de-stabilising.

Tim Fisher seems ok though - anyone agree?

 

[Chipfat]

Sisu will not pay anymore money to keep the club afloat they already have to find an extra 5mill to invest due to loss of tv and league money this along with what the club is already losing. They are planning a exit and i would not be suprised sooner rarther than later,, people say admin is not an option for SISU i personally think its the only options unless they want to find another 12 million to invest just to keep us going... The stone around their neck is getting heavy and soon they will cut loose by either finding a buyer or calling it a day.

Along the way they have made some very bad decision but the biggest was looking for the cheapest options on everything with the playing side. Cheap manager, not replacing like for like players, no scout, no fitness trainer and asking an inexperienced manager to play inexperienced players in a league that is not forgiving or easy.

Going forward they need to go and where i dont care, they had a shot and got it wrong, my only hope is they have an exit plan that doesn't involve hurting the club anymore than they have already. And last thing is they saved us from admin ,,, what did they really save us from or was this just delaying the inevitable

 

[blueflint]

:blue::blue::blue::blue::blue::blue:

 

[Sky Blue Sheepy]

Well may ws well close this thread, Astute's left very little room for debate. I joke ofc. but I can't help but agree with his points as well as sportbilly's comment about the over agressiveness of it. I'd call it short sightedness by SISU but that implies they cared enough about the team for it to be a mistake, rather than looking only at finances and forgetting/not caring that they own a football team too.

 

[TommyAtkins]

I hope SISU feck off to be honest. Won't be renewing my season ticket until they have!!!

That are to blame for this situation!!!!

Depriving the club of more funds.
Which is exactly what you accuse SISU of.

Hypocritical, dont you think.

 

[Chipfat]

Somebody asked the other day what have Sisu lied about and give me an argument about what they have done wrong other than try to run the club correctly??

Well somebody tell me Who owns the Club and what owners have made the decisions that have brought the club to this current situation...Because whoever they are they know nothing about the football business, they have consistantly made errors and consistantly throw smokescreen to hide the facts about transfer embargos, selling players( we will replace knowing full well no intentions to do so) and using next seasons ticket money to re mortgaging the training ground.... Then to allow KD loose on the club WOW what a stunt that proved to be,, he made us the Laughing stock, but sadly im not laughing today and nobody in my mind should be happy to see Sisu carry on...

 

[TommyAtkins]

Somebody asked the other day what have Sisu lied about and give me an argument about what they have done wrong other than try to run the club correctly??

Well somebody tell me Who owns the Club and what owners have made the decisions that have brought the club to this current situation...Because whoever they are they know nothing about the football business, they have consistantly made errors and consistantly throw smokescreen to hide the facts about transfer embargos, selling players( we will replace knowing full well no intentions to do so) and using next seasons ticket money to re mortgaging the training ground.... Then to allow KD loose on the club WOW what a stunt that proved to be,, he made us the Laughing stock, but sadly im not laughing today and nobody in my mind should be happy to see Sisu carry on...

Given the circumstances, SISU have done the only thing possible, which is to cut costs.

Where else could the money come from.

Like it not, as Astute said, the cuts needed to be made to preserve the long-term future of CCFC.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I have now slept on my ill feelings from last night. It is time to look at what has gone wrong. Some people need to open their minds and look at what has happened to us.

SISU were right to cut costs. I am in no doubt at all about that. We can't keep going on forever getting further into debt. The only problem is that they looked at our income and outgoings. Then decided to cut our outgoings to our income as quick as they could. They also made up the difference in transfer fees they received from our best players. If they would have done it slower the younger players would have had time to settle in and make the change from U18 to the Championship more gradually. We then would have had a stronger squad, the youngsters would have had seasoned pro's to learn from and we would have had more points on the board. The confidence would have been better with the players. As the younger players slowly became 1st team players they could have then sold players as they were replaced by youth.

This didn't happen. So what happened next? Too many positions taken up with inexperienced players. This led to mistakes, thus costing us points. This put us at the bottom of the table. Less fans turn up to home games. Less revenue. More cost cutting. More money needed to be raised. SISU then had a good idea. Let's sell the clubs top scorer...the only player scoring goals. This tells me they either know nothing about football, they were more interested in the finances coming from our club than the clubs future or maybe even both.

Now for next season. We will get less TV money. We will have lower gates. We still have the same overheads. Where is the money going to come from? We have a good academy. We now have players that came from it with a season of experience in the Championship. How many of these players will be sold and replaced with academy players? Maybe they now see us as a club like Carlisle who bring up decent young players then sell them.

I think we have two chances of getting out of this mess. We go on a decent run at the start of next season. The fans come back as we are winning. The income goes up with the gates. We should then not have to keep selling our better players like this season. This will be as long as SISU don't sell them all this closed season though. The second one is that SISU sell up and f*ck off. Then we are taken over by someone who understands football and knows you can't get success with a skeleton squad whilst selling all your best players.

Excellent post. Needs a bump.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Given the circumstances, SISU have done the only thing possible, which is to cut costs.

Where else could the money come from.

Like it not, as Astute said, the cuts needed to be made to preserve the long-term future of CCFC.

Tommy - in another post they were excellent businessmen.

Excellent businessmen (even OK ones) raise money for investment when it's required, i.e. to avoid a £4m loss in revenue.

I think just about everyone agrees that cuts needed to be made.

You seem to think SISU made these cuts in a rational/sensible way.

I think they have acted in an amazingly (genuine use of the word) inept way.

In years to come, MBA courses will include a case study based on SISU's ownership of CCFC entitle - How to f*ck up an acquisition".

 

[TommyAtkins]

Tommy - in another post they were excellent businessmen.

Excellent businessmen (even OK ones) raise money for investment when it's required, i.e. to avoid a £4m loss in revenue.

I think just about everyone agrees that cuts needed to be made.

You seem to think SISU made these cuts in a rational/sensible way.

I think they have acted in an amazingly (genuine use of the word) inept way.

In years to come, MBA courses will include a case study based on SISU's ownership of CCFC entitle - How to f*ck up an acquisition".

They are excellent business people - and have proved it consistently in the broader financial world.

The issue here is that they decided, for whatever reason, that they no longer wished to finance this football club.

Consequently, they passed control to their representatives to run the club with as little external support as possible.

ie - the club was forced to stand on its own 2 feet. In that context, cost-cutting was sensible and not at all inept.

From the technical financial perspective, this was not inept. What they failed to do was articulate that vision to others.

But that was tricky - how do you tell a fanbase that.

I said from 2007 that their corporate comms were crap but the cuts were sound in principle

 

[covcity4life]

sisu plus aidy boothroyd would have kept us in championship i beleive

we ended up giving a inexperienced manager the job with a stingy board,ended in disaster

boothroyds simple play and avoiding midfield probably would have kept us up at least

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

They are excellent business people - and have proved it consistently in the broader financial world.

The issue here is that they decided, for whatever reason, that they no longer wished to finance this football club.

Consequently, they passed control to their representatives to run the club with as little external support as possible.

ie - the club was forced to stand on its own 2 feet. In that context, cost-cutting was sensible and not at all inept.

From the technical financial perspective, this was not inept. What they failed to do was articulate that vision to others.

But that was tricky - how do you tell a fanbase that.

I said from 2007 that their corporate comms were crap but the cuts were sound in principle

Sorry but I have to disagree.

I have a financial background (Chartered Accountant, FD for 20+ years, bought and sold companies with PE backing) so I have every sympathy for the need to run a business in a sensible prudent way.

However, this is not the same thing as "cut costs and hang the consequences". As a result of their ineptitude they now have to deal with an additional decrease in revenue of circa £4m. Brilliant!!

As for your comments on communication with the fans - perhaps they could have started by not talking about "franchise players", by not stating that this year's playing budget would be "similar to last year's" (perhaps they meant it would be printed on the same coloured paper?), perhaps Onye should not have agreed that communication had been poor, promised to rectify matters and then apparrently vanish off the face of the earth.

Perhaps they might also have spotted that Ken D was a walking disaster before they appointed him as Chairman.

All in all, it's quite difficult to believe that it would have been possible for them to run the club any worse over the last year.

 

[Chipfat]

Tommy,

Although proven in a different field of business they knew nothing about football business and over the last 3 years have proved this without doubt.. You cannot make a case that these people knew or had any idea about how to run the club. I think they started well with all the best intentions but stopped investing and started to cash in on Fox, Dann. And from that day we all knew what they were about not building with a plan but to survive evry season on selling jems that AT had spotted....I respect your view but have any grounds to agree in alot you have wrote about Sisu... And as for Lying you know they have and here is your first... They invested 35million to start with ,,, why now is it a loan to the club and not an investment

 

[TommyAtkins]

Sorry but I have to disagree.

I have a financial background (Chartered Accountant, FD for 20+ years, bought and sold companies with PE backing) so I have every sympathy for the need to run a business in a sensible prudent way.

However, this is not the same thing as "cut costs and hang the consequences". As a result of their ineptitude they now have to deal with an additional decrease in revenue of circa £4m. Brilliant!!

As for your comments on communication with the fans - perhaps they could have started by not talking about "franchise players", by not stating that this year's playing budget would be "similar to last year's" (perhaps they meant it would be printed on the same coloured paper?), perhaps Onye should not have agreed that communication had been poor, promised to rectify matters and then apparrently vanish off the face of the earth.

Perhaps they might also have spotted that Ken D was a walking disaster before they appointed him as Chairman.

All in all, it's quite difficult to believe that it would have been possible for them to run the club any worse over the last year.

I am not a Charted Accountant, I am a soldier. I like things nice and simple.

What is apparent to me is the urgent need for cuts. And the loss in revenue caused by relegation will require more cuts.

But there was no alternative. Apart from pumping ever more money into a loss-making club and a loss-making environment (football in general). As an accountant, please don't tell me you would advise spending more money to plug the gap????

When it comes to talking with the fans, I don't believe that SISU have differed from any other owner of Coventry or any other owner of a football club. They tell fans what they want to hear:

"signings", "Premiership push", "big plans", "wonderful future"

Personally, I would have suggested telling the fans all about the harsh realities of the situation

 

[TommyAtkins]

Tommy,

Although proven in a different field of business they knew nothing about football business and over the last 3 years have proved this without doubt.. You cannot make a case that these people knew or had any idea about how to run the club. I think they started well with all the best intentions but stopped investing and started to cash in on Fox, Dann. And from that day we all knew what they were about not building with a plan but to survive evry season on selling jems that AT had spotted....I respect your view but have any grounds to agree in alot you have wrote about Sisu... And as for Lying you know they have and here is your first... They invested 35million to start with ,,, why now is it a loan to the club and not an investment

Chip - a loan is an investment. I loan money to someone with the hope of making a return on that investment.

I think too many fans interpreted "investment" as "gift".

And no, I don't believe they have "lied". All they have done is conform to the standards set by other clubs and other owners, which is tell the fans what they want to hear.

They sold Fox and Dann because they decided to stop bankrolling a loss-making venture.

Asking the club to stand on its own 2 feet isn't necessarily an act of incompetence

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I am not a Charted Accountant, I am a soldier. I like things nice and simple.

What is apparent to me is the urgent need for cuts. And the loss in revenue caused by relegation will require more cuts.

But there was no alternative. Apart from pumping ever more money into a loss-making club and a loss-making environment (football in general). As an accountant, please don't tell me you would advise spending more money to plug the gap????

When it comes to talking with the fans, I don't believe that SISU have differed from any other owner of Coventry or any other owner of a football club. They tell fans what they want to hear:

"signings", "Premiership push", "big plans", "wonderful future"

Personally, I would have suggested telling the fans all about the harsh realities of the situation

And as a non-soldier I would never presume to advise you on military strategy.

You really have to try to open your mind just a little. Investment is not "plugging the gap".

Relegation is going to cost us £4m. Actually, as we are not likely to bounce back next year, it is going to cost us a multiple of £4m. £4m is a very significant percentage of our income.

Let's put football to one side - in any business if we were in danger of losing a significant percentage of our income and a case was put to me as FD, that the chances of retaining this income could be massively increased by a modest investment - are you honestly saying that you'd expect a rational businessman to say "No - we must continue to cut and then if we lose that business, we'll just have to start the whole cycle of cutting over again".

Business is about taking rational considered risks. Not following some brainless cost cutting mantra, irrespective of the damage it does.

 

[TommyAtkins]

And as a non-soldier I would never presume to advise you on military strategy.

You really have to try to open your mind just a little. Investment is not "plugging the gap".

Relegation is going to cost us £4m. Actually, as we are not likely to bounce back next year, it is going to cost us a multiple of £4m. £4m is a very significant percentage of our income.

Let's put football to one side - in any business if we were in danger of losing a significant percentage of our income and a case was put to me as FD, that the chances of retaining this income could be massively increased by a modest investment - are you honestly saying that you'd expect a rational businessman to say "No - we must continue to cut and then if we lose that business, we'll just have to start the whole cycle of cutting over again".

Business is about taking rational considered risks. Not following some brainless cost cutting mantra, irrespective of the damage it does.

Believe you me, military strategy involves taking risks

And who would pay for that "modest" investment?

What if SISU invested another £1 million and we were relegated regardless. Or another £4 million.

Where is that money coming from?

Sooner or later, this club has to learn that it can't spend other people's money regardless of the consequences.

I quite agree this is going to cost us. But it is the inevitable consequence of spending money we didn't have which led to relegation in 2001.

Sooner or later, reality was going to collide with CCFC

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Believe you me, military strategy involves taking risks

And who would pay for that "modest" investment?

What if SISU invested another £1 million and we were relegated regardless. Or another £4 million.

Where is that money coming from?

Sooner or later, this club has to learn that it can't spend other people's money regardless of the consequences.

I quite agree this is going to cost us. But it is the inevitable consequence of spending money we didn't have which led to relegation in 2001.

Sooner or later, reality was going to collide with CCFC

Who would pay for that modest investment? - well, as I recall, we have frequently been told that SISU have "been funding" the club over the last 12 months. Indeed a number of posters (I'm guessing, perhaps you among them?) have on occassion criticised "SISU out" posters, with a "you may not like them, but what would we do without their funding?" argument.

So either we have been misinformed (I'm tempted to put "again" - oh, I did) or SISU are able to find some money from somewhere.

So now to quantum. I'm a little disappointed in you that you immediately lurch into the "what if they invested another £4m?" comment. If you re-read my posts you'll see I talked about a modest investment that could increase our chances of staying up (and so, by the way, retaining £4m per annum revenue). I know military spending is pretty high but I wouldn't see £4m as modest in a CCFC context .

Perhaps retaining Juke until the summer (when he would no doubt have been sold) or getting a more experienced striker in on loan would have been appropriate. My guess is that the latter could probably have been done for circa £5k per week. Having our experienced striker for January to April would then cost circa £90k.

Now I agree that that wouldn't guarantee us staying up, however our defence has been pretty good, but a strikeforce of Platt and Nimley (prior to Cody being fit again) always looked like it would struggle to get the necessary goals.

So to invest/gamble/plug gap with £90k to (in my view) massively increase our chances of retaining £4m per annum - I'd say that was a pretty rational thing to do.

To sit on our hands, muttering "we must cut costs, we must cut costs", while we watch £4m per annum vanish down the metaphorical plughole - I'd say that was pretty inept.

 

[oldskyblue58]

All the woes at CCFC are not due to SISU - but they are because they make the major financial decisions a major contributor. I am inclined to agree with the points put forward by Astute and DTD regarding SISU's contribution to our fate.

From day 1 I think they failed to plan and control the business. They approached the club in much the same way as they might buying into an engineering business, let appointed management go with their plan without actually understanding the plan properly themselves. That is not a sign of excellent business people - the right decision was proper control from day 1 and fully understanding the plan from day 1.

They failed to understand the essential difference between buying a football club or an engineering company - the fans, their passion and thirst for knowledge about their passion. They failed to understand the amount of blind faith fans put into owners of clubs and that if this trust or communication is broken (possibly for some reasons outside of SISU's control but broken all the same) then fans dont just walk away from an engineering product they vent their frustrations, create a hostile environment that remains because they have bought their season ticket.... then potentially walk away from providing future income.

In a "normal" business perhaps you may cut back to the core business to get to a firm position and then start investing - it may well be clearer in purpose and you dont need the communication to thousands of outsiders. Perhaps when more financially stable you look at investment in more machinery etc with a view to planning a brighter future over a number of years. Football clubs are more immediate than that the major equipment have a high paid but short shelf life that greatly affects income immediately. Despite the losses some investment is required - this season there has been a negative investment in the machinery of the business - the players

Why negative this season - because SISU failed to properly plan and control the business from the start. Control of the finances was essential to being able to provide further investment in the players. Instead what happened was a knee jerk reaction of cutting all costs with no ability to invest in the current season or the future. They ran out of money, they had no assets in the company to mortgage and the only way they could raise money was cutting wages and selling players - even then that was only to keep going not to invest in the squad.

The realities are we have to cut costs, we have to sell players - simply to have a club at all. They could have done that from Day 1, explained it to grateful fans at that time who might not have liked but may have understood - but by now we may have been financially stable starting to net invest in playing squad. They could have created a good relationship with the landlords even acquired some of the income streams - but they didnt. They and RR initially chose a different way then SISU took a hatchet to it when there failings came home to roost.

Balanced, clear, informed, planned management and investment by SISU and the Board over 5 years of tenure - not a chance!

 

[BelarusSkyBlue]

Tommy.

The cost cutting that you advocate was the right thing to do, but the result of the way this was done was almost inevitable - relegation.

'Excellent businessmen' would have a plan, some way of growing revenue. Cost cutting has pretty much only one result which is a smaller business. It is only one part of being excellent businessmen. If they are ever to recoup their investment they need to grow the business.

My occupation is automotive research, the automotive companies that perform well make a good product that consumers wish to purchase. In bad times they innovate, find ways of improving their product and promote it through the right channels, this takes time and investment. SISU needed to show some entrepeneurial spirit develop new ideas after doing appropriate research and to make modest well placed investment, in this they have utterly failed. I really don't know how you can continue to support them unless you simply having some fun playing devils advocate. By any measure our near certain relegation and the subsequent loss of revenue is a business disaster.

 

[TommyAtkins]

Who would pay for that modest investment? - well, as I recall, we have frequently been told that SISU have "been funding" the club over the last 12 months. Indeed a number of posters (I'm guessing, perhaps you among them?) have on occassion criticised "SISU out" posters, with a "you may not like them, but what would we do without their funding?" argument.

So either we have been misinformed (I'm tempted to put "again" - oh, I did) or SISU are able to find some money from somewhere.

So now to quantum. I'm a little disappointed in you that you immediately lurch into the "what if they invested another £4m?" comment. If you re-read my posts you'll see I talked about a modest investment that could increase our chances of staying up (and so, by the way, retaining £4m per annum revenue). I know military spending is pretty high but I wouldn't see £4m as modest in a CCFC context .

Perhaps retaining Juke until the summer (when he would no doubt have been sold) or getting a more experienced striker in on loan would have been appropriate. My guess is that the latter could probably have been done for circa £5k per week. Having our experienced striker for January to April would then cost circa £90k.

Now I agree that that wouldn't guarantee us staying up, however our defence has been pretty good, but a strikeforce of Platt and Nimley (prior to Cody being fit again) always looked like it would struggle to get the necessary goals.

So to invest/gamble/plug gap with £90k to (in my view) massively increase our chances of retaining £4m per annum - I'd say that was a pretty rational thing to do.

To sit on our hands, muttering "we must cut costs, we must cut costs", while we watch £4m per annum vanish down the metaphorical plughole - I'd say that was pretty inept.

I am disappointed you didn't read my post. Please read my post again - I didn't "lurch" into £4 million.

I made a gradual progression from 1 to 4. The actual sum is irrelevant. The principle is that there is no guarantee that any sum would have improved our situation.

Therefore, whatever the sum, what if that "modest investment" failed? We will have plunged further into debt.

I would judge any owner of a failing business to be sane if their first move was to cut waste and cut costs, rather than continually spend money trying to prop the business up.

So, we lose £4 million. An inevitable consequence of the state we were in and rather that than spend more and more money trying to stave off the inevitable.

And yes, I did criticise the SISU out herd. They had no objective, save "SISU out". No regard for the consequences and no regard for the realities.

Had they embraced ashbyjan and knowls leadership, there was potential to achieve real effect.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I am disappointed you didn't read my post. Please read my post again - I didn't "lurch" into £4 million.

I made a gradual progression from 1 to 4. The actual sum is irrelevant. The principle is that there is no guarantee that any sum would have improved our situation.

Therefore, whatever the sum, what if that "modest investment" failed? We will have plunged further into debt.

I would judge any owner of a failing business to be sane if their first move was to cut waste and cut costs, rather than continually spend money trying to prop the business up.

So, we lose £4 million. An inevitable consequence of the state we were in and rather that than spend more and more money trying to stave off the inevitable.

And yes, I did criticise the SISU out herd. They had no objective, save "SISU out". No regard for the consequences and no regard for the realities.

Had they embraced ashbyjan and knowls leadership, there was potential to achieve real effect.

OK I apologise - you didn't "lurch to £4m", you lurched to £1m and then re-lurched to £4m.

Can I be disappointed that you didn't read my post too? I was talking about £90k investment. Even on your initial "lurch", that's only 9% (2.25% of your re-lurch if you're interested ).

I can't agree that the actual sum is irrelevant. To risk £90k to protect £4m is rational. To risk £10m to protect £4m is irrational. How can the sum be irrelevant?

Then we fall back on the favourite of incoming governments - "let's cut waste". Well SISU have been in charge for 5 years, so given that they're "excellent busiunessmen", I guess there can't be too much waste left to cut. I'm sure it can't be that you see selling Juke (our only regular goalscorer) as cutting waste. It'd be an interesting view, but I guess we have all those other players who can run on the pitch instead of him and -hey, have you seen the reduction in the wage bill?

 

[singers_pore]

Cost cutting is not developing a sound business plan.

The fact is that CCFC cannot have a sound business plan unless:

1. It involves a substantial increase in revenue streams (e.g., stadium naming rights, car park revenues, hospitality and conferences, food sales in concourses etc.)
2. It involves proper control over costs (e.g., only giving long term contracts to players that have resale value, i.e., not the likes of Bell and Sheffers).
3. We own our own stadium, in order to avoid exorbitant charges on rental.

Is SISU completely to blame? Well, clearly not. BR & GR were responsible for #1 and #3.

However, SISU knew about #1, #2, and #3 when acquiring the company, so why was that not factored into their business plan?

As mentioned by OSB, DTD and others, cutting costs by 1m is not sensible if the direct result is a loss of 4m in revenue. Again, this simply points to a lack of a sound business plan by SISU.

I cannot accept that SISU or their representatives (e.g., Igwe, Dulieu) are excellent business people. The evidence clearly indicates the opposite.

Like some others on this forum (and unlike TommyA) I speak with 20 years of high level experience in accounting and finance.

Let's just hope that whoever owns CCFC next will have a more coherent plan of action than SISU have had. It does not matter how low we sink - we could be in League 1, League 2 or Blue Square, and our revenues will never be sufficient to cover our costs. The ONLY way this can be addressed in reality is for a new owner to tackle points #1, #2, and #3.

To me, the key player in this is the council. Will the council help a new owner to achieve a sound business plan or will they continue to demand their pound of flesh (as the Bard so eloquently put it).

 

[grego_gee]

SISU were right to cut costs.

Yes, but how much is the question!
Letting go of King and then Juke might even have made us stronger - If we had stayed in the Championship.....!
Dropping out opens a whole new can of worms!
It has changed the whole ball game in who we might expect to stay or sign....

Too much is the answer!! imp:

 

[TommyAtkins]

Cost cutting is not developing a sound business plan.

The fact is that CCFC cannot have a sound business plan unless:

1. It involves a substantial increase in revenue streams (e.g., stadium naming rights, car park revenues, hospitality and conferences, food sales in concourses etc.)
2. It involves proper control over costs (e.g., only giving long term contracts to players that have resale value, i.e., not the likes of Bell and Sheffers).
3. We own our own stadium, in order to avoid exorbitant charges on rental.

Is SISU completely to blame? Well, clearly not. BR & GR were responsible for #1 and #3.

However, SISU knew about #1, #2, and #3 when acquiring the company, so why was that not factored into their business plan?

As mentioned by OSB, DTD and others, cutting costs by 1m is not sensible if the direct result is a loss of 4m in revenue. Again, this simply points to a lack of a sound business plan by SISU.

I cannot accept that SISU or their representatives (e.g., Igwe, Dulieu) are excellent business people. The evidence clearly indicates the opposite.

Like some others on this forum (and unlike TommyA) I speak with 20 years of high level experience in accounting and finance.

Let's just hope that whoever owns CCFC next will have a more coherent plan of action than SISU have had. It does not matter how low we sink - we could be in League 1, League 2 or Blue Square, and our revenues will never be sufficient to cover our costs. The ONLY way this can be addressed in reality is for a new owner to tackle points #1, #2, and #3.

To me, the key player in this is the council. Will the council help a new owner to achieve a sound business plan or will they continue to demand their pound of flesh (as the Bard so eloquently put it).

SISU are an extremely successful company. Just because you don't like them or the individuals they employ doesn't provide justification for accusing them of otherwise.

This reference to £4 million lost is disingenous. We all know the cost of relegation but you cannot invest £1 million to save the loss of £4 million if you don't have the £1 million in the first place.

There is this wilful belief that we have the right to demand that other people repeatedly spend their money to prop up our club.

You may have 20 years experience but so have many other people who have led companies and businesses into ruin. Marconi being an obvious example.

And of course, you are wrong as well - being a soldier doesn't exempt me for controlling a multi-million pound budget for an ISTAR unit.

Nevertheless, there are plenty of people out there with even more experience and knowledge that you and I will agree utterly that cost-cutting was sound and the right thing to do. And there is evidence out there on this forum and elsewhere to that effect.

Even so, the fundamentals of not spending money you don't have should be understood by anyone who holds a bank account

We as fans need to grip the fact that no one owes us a club. The club doesn't generate any money and until it does, we will always struggle.

 

[singers_pore]

According to TommyA our financial problems can be blamed solely at the fans for not turning up in enough numbers.

Well let's look a bit more carefully at this lazy assertion shall we?

1. Our average attendance this year is 14,993 which is the 14th highest in the Championship.

2. Our average attendances were higher in previous years and yet we never even finished as high as 14th since SISU took over.

3. In the Premiership there are three clubs with average attendances <=20,000. They are Swansea, Wigan and QPR all of whom have traditionally had lower attendances than us. If we were in the Premiership I am sure we would average more than 20,000.

4. Our player wage expense in previous years is less than 14th. Our wage expense this season is probably the lowest in the division (this is to be confirmed once the accounts are filed). Players' wages are by far the biggest factor determining a club's league position (this assertion has been well demonstrated in an empirical study by Prof Symanski). Thus, our very poor league position is down to our relatively low wages. It is not due to our long-suffering fans.

 

[oldskyblue58]

There is this wilful belief that we have the right to demand that other people repeatedly spend their money to prop up our club.

Nevertheless, there are plenty of people out there with even more experience and knowledge that you and I will agree utterly that cost-cutting was sound and the right thing to do.

Even so, the fundamentals of not spending money you don't have should be understood by anyone who holds a bank account

We as fans need to grip the fact that no one owes us a club. The club doesn't generate any money and until it does, we will always struggle.

Agree with nearly all that Tommy - only thing I would alter is that cost cutting was ONE of the right things to have done. It is not necessarily the right thing to do if done in isolation or as a knee jerk reaction it can be harmful to a business. I think what is being driven at by other posters is that there doesnt seem to be a clear plan to the financial management or future at CCFC - they are reactive not pro-active. Good management will sometimes have to react to situations but drive the situations by being pro-active. You dont get the impression from what we know that SISU are very pro-active

 

[skybluelee]

Given the circumstances, SISU have done the only thing possible, which is to cut costs.

Where else could the money come from.

Like it not, as Astute said, the cuts needed to be made to preserve the long-term future of CCFC.

Any moron running any business can cut costs. The issue with Sisu is they did it to the extreme without any consideration for the playing side. What I just can't get my head around is if a small amount of money had been made available to bring in 2 extra loanees after Juke was sold there isn't the slightest doubt in my mind we would have picked up the extra handful of points needed to survive. Say what you like about ATs management ability but it is undeniable that he can spot a player.

The cost of relegation vs the cost of 2 loanees for 4 months...............its not fucking rocket science.

 

[Tankie]

Thoughts on sisu

F#*&^%$.. T$£*s

 

[Godiva]

From day 1 I think they failed to plan and control the business. They approached the club in much the same way as they might buying into an engineering business, let appointed management go with their plan without actually understanding the plan properly themselves. That is not a sign of excellent business people - the right decision was proper control from day 1 and fully understanding the plan from day 1.

They failed to understand the essential difference between buying a football club or an engineering company - the fans, their passion and thirst for knowledge about their passion. They failed to understand the amount of blind faith fans put into owners of clubs and that if this trust or communication is broken (possibly for some reasons outside of SISU's control but broken all the same) then fans dont just walk away from an engineering product they vent their frustrations, create a hostile environment that remains because they have bought their season ticket.... then potentially walk away from providing future income.

This were we mostly disagree - and probably always will.

Hedgefunds are like banks and their employees are like bank emploees - they basically understand only three things: Money, money and money.

Usually they don't go knocking on doors and ask permission to invest in your company, they sit and wait till you turn up and ask for their money. Then they look into your businessplan by consulting experts from the industry. When all reports are supporting the businessplan and if the investment plan looks feasible, they open the vault and let you have a look inside. Then they say: Here's our money, now YOU put in a substantial part ... preferbly all ... of your own wealth. This will reassure us you will fight for the case till you drop. If the project goes down in flames, then you will burn up with it.
In the mean time we will be in our offices looking over the monthly reports. We will put in a representative on the board, but as we know nothing about the business, our representative will only have one vote and no right of veto. Majority voting will ensure all around the table have his say and equal power to the others. The businessplan, the operating and investment budgets are to be excecuted as priority no 1. Any deviation will be handled by the board.

So Ranson went to sisu with his plan, and sisu have consulted experts within the football area, and they finally went along for the ride. Ranson put in his Prozone and got his 15-20% part of the shares.

This is all normal practice.

Then you say: From day 1 I think they failed to plan and control the business.
I think not! Sisu will have overseen everything, but left it to the board to solve deviations to the original plan ... and those deviations started quickly when the gates declined and kept on doing so. The consequences we know all too well.

Sisu did however take control last year when they finally got rid of Ranson and the rest of the original board ... all those who failed to make the plan work. But by then the money was long gone and the radical surgery was all that was left.

If you accept what sisu are and how they work, then the next question really is: Should a hedgefund ever get involved in football?

 

[jassie78]

Personally my self, I think Sisu will go. Lower attendances, lower income and nothing to asset strip anymore. I was topping my season ticket last night for a beer and their was a sign on the desk to say cash on cards will not be carried over for next season. I was speak to a guy at pub and he's a disable badge holder, he wants to get a season ticket for next year only to be told that the price for disable badge holder is now £300 quid and free for the carer, surely that is wrong. Looks like sisu are trying to get as much money out as possible before they leave.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Sorry but I have to disagree.

I have a financial background (Chartered Accountant, FD for 20+ years, bought and sold companies with PE backing) so I have every sympathy for the need to run a business in a sensible prudent way.

However, this is not the same thing as "cut costs and hang the consequences". As a result of their ineptitude they now have to deal with an additional decrease in revenue of circa £4m. Brilliant!!

As for your comments on communication with the fans - perhaps they could have started by not talking about "franchise players", by not stating that this year's playing budget would be "similar to last year's" (perhaps they meant it would be printed on the same coloured paper?), perhaps Onye should not have agreed that communication had been poor, promised to rectify matters and then apparrently vanish off the face of the earth.

Perhaps they might also have spotted that Ken D was a walking disaster before they appointed him as Chairman.

All in all, it's quite difficult to believe that it would have been possible for them to run the club any worse over the last year.

Well that's my Post of the Week! Well said, sir.

 

[torchomatic]

Yes, we were told it was the end of the cashless system. Not too fussed, to be honest.