Thorn: No go for Bruno, Another trialist today and hopefully Barton (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter skyblu3sk
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Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
The list of people he did scout has been listed on here recently; and it's pretty impressive. To detract from his success as a scout too is frankly ridiculous.
And it's not just the players he did get the club to sign too - such as Jutkiewitz - he introduced Cork, Henderson and had a look at Carroll - all of whom, according to Ranson, SISU wouldn't fund. But that claim - not from Thorn himself - will simply be discounted as a lie by those who wish to only see things n their own perverse little way
And it's not just the players he did get the club to sign too - such as Jutkiewitz - he introduced Cork, Henderson and had a look at Carroll - all of whom, according to Ranson, SISU wouldn't fund. But that claim - not from Thorn himself - will simply be discounted as a lie by those who wish to only see things n their own perverse little way
Im only passing on what i was just told! I walked into work and the guy said to me "Cov have a new player on trial today dont they"...of which i knew nothing about until i came on here.
He, or me for that matter, have no reason to make it up. Have you ever seen me post anything like that before? Im generally not one of these people who claim to be in the know, i was just passing on information which was passed to me.
Nick
Administrator
Where is the list?
Cork - Was at Southampton, Scunthorpe, Burnley and Watford before he came to us on loan
Carroll - Had been at Preston just before our interest and was doing well and borderline first team I think.
Henderson - Yep, a good find as he was probably in the reserves / youth team still at Sunderland
The Juke - Again had been at a few teams before us, was half decent for us, hasnt set the world on fire at Boro
I'm not saying he is a bad scout but I think people go OTT about it
Cork - Was at Southampton, Scunthorpe, Burnley and Watford before he came to us on loan
Carroll - Had been at Preston just before our interest and was doing well and borderline first team I think.
Henderson - Yep, a good find as he was probably in the reserves / youth team still at Sunderland
The Juke - Again had been at a few teams before us, was half decent for us, hasnt set the world on fire at Boro
I'm not saying he is a bad scout but I think people go OTT about it
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
AT appointed April 2008
so it would seem that we can credit AT with Westwood and all since (?)....... but not Fox or Dann (jan 2008) and that Gunnarsson was down to a recommendation by Helguson (not ATdespite being signed in June 2008).
That said all managers make good and bad signings ...... and the reasons some players do not work out is not always down to the manager.
so it would seem that we can credit AT with Westwood and all since (?)....... but not Fox or Dann (jan 2008) and that Gunnarsson was down to a recommendation by Helguson (not ATdespite being signed in June 2008).
That said all managers make good and bad signings ...... and the reasons some players do not work out is not always down to the manager.
Or maybe when the job came through...."can you pick up Johnny X and take to Coventry training ground please" could have been the clue?
Or do you get dropped off 2 or 3 streets away so you can leg it?
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
He had nothing to work with though. He's an excellent scout.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Where is the list?
Cork - Was at Southampton, Sc-unithorpe, Burnley and Watford before he came to us on loan
Carroll - Had been at Preston just before our interest and was doing well and borderline first team I think.
Henderson - Yep, a good find as he was probably in the reserves / youth team still at Sunderland
The Juke - Again had been at a few teams before us, was half decent for us, hasnt set the world on fire at Boro
I'm not saying he is a bad scout but I think people go OTT about it
The list includes Gunnarsson, Westwood, Keogh, Jutkiewitz, Hussey (who was signed from non-league).
Cranie was signed during his tenure, but that - given his profile at the time - is liable to be a managerial signing, and less attributable to good scouting.
Then loan players he found, includined Cork, Henderson and Gary Madine....
Given he was only our scout for, what - 3 seasons - that's a good hit rate
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Sorry, don't think I can live with that appraisal. Gunnarsson s signed two months aft tear AT was appointed as chief scout. Yes, he may have been a recommendation, but so are many of the players a scout is asked to look at. He wouldn't have been signed at face value. I am sure that Thorn - in his new role - would have been asked to give the player the once over and make recommendations to the manager. As such, I don't think Gunnarsson can be wiped from Thorn's record
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Loan players(Particularly from Premier clubs) aren't so much scouted as asked "Do you have anybody available for loan?", "Yep, got so and so available if you like, CM", "Ok, thanks we'll try him"
stevo_ccfc
New Member
Exactly look at fergie and Eric Djemba Djemba...
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Great. So, with the narrative you've played out in your mind above, plus your assertion that Ranson is a liar; you can - without evidence - wipe clean anything you don't want attributed to Thorn; which flies in the face of all factual record
Nick
Administrator
The same as you just wiped clean that Gunnar was recommended by another player to the manager?
Players like Westwood and Keogh, were they not player of the season at Carlisle when we got them?
Hussey i can give you as he was plucked from non league which is where we should be looking
Did he "find" Cork though? He had been at a few different teams before us? It is usually the case that players like this get offered about a fair bit!
Nick
Administrator
The same as you just wiped clean that Gunnar was recommended by another player to the manager?
Players like Westwood and Keogh, were they not player of the season at Carlisle when we got them?
Hussey i can give you as he was plucked from non league which is where we should be looking
Did he "find" Cork though? He had been at a few different teams before us? It is usually the case that players like this get offered about a fair bit!
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
Not really 'helping'. If there was such a thing as an 'irony typeface', you'd be using it
Diehard Si
New Member
Fair enough, I'm just overly cynical since my mate who works at Ccfc tried to blag me the mystery defender we were signing was Nesta
It's nice to see another thread turn into "AT's crap/AT's good/AT's fat and sweaty" again though, isn't it
True. Everything people are saying is pure speculation. Nobody's really got a clue whether Thorn scouted these players, so they give him credit for the good ones or slate him for the bad ones depending on where they stand on the Thorn in/out debate.
Fair enough, I'm just overly cynical since my mate who works at Ccfc tried to blag me the mystery defender we were signing was Nesta
hahaha well i didnt say it was Nesta, i said it wasnt Hesky...but of a difference and depending how you look at it, might be better news! haha
Up North Sky Blue
New Member
Next time there's a forum with Thorn, ask him which players did he scout for the club and which does he prefer McDonalds or Burger King?
Nick
Administrator
Exactly. Unless we are at the club there is no way for us to know exactly who he did scout.
skybluebeduff
Well-Known Member
You lot wouldn't be much fun in a pub I know that much after reading the last 5 pages :facepalm: too many empty glasses and not enough pints being brought!! :claping hands:
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
In fairness, a lot of the players above had a reasonable reasons to sign (bar Kyle), e.g. McIndoe was a good champ winger, Eastwood was awesome at Southend, Cody has shown he can be v good likewise with Baker, who scored 17 goals in midfield for bottom of the league Stockport!
You also forgot: Dann, Fox, Westwood, Gunnarsson, Keogh, Murphy and a couple more.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Difference of opinion MMM - i can go with you seeing it differently
. I do think there is a difference though between AT through his contacts / own knowledge finding a player and his manager telling him to go check someone out based on a recommendation already made to the manager. Not sure there is that much credit to AT for that ...... Coleman could have gone himself had he the time. (btw not seeking to "bash" AT on any of this just dont see Gunnar as one of AT's finds). AT is/was a decent scout.
Also about RR and his claims he wanted to buy Cork, Carrol and Henderson. At the time he was Chairman of the club (and shareholder) and as such you would expect him to have a good handle on the finances. We made a group loss over £8m in May 2009, Additional finance provided in the that year of £10m and loans from SISU investors of £23m in total with very limited assets, a negative balance sheet of £12m and pretty poor performance on the pitch ..... he would have known the budgets going forward and therefore the projected losses..... it was going to be very hard to finance significant funds for any of those players.... not unreasonable to expect RR to have known all of that and to know he didnt have the money for these apparent deals and would not get it. Easy to say SISU wouldnt give him the money though.
Cork had signed a 3 year deal with Chelsea August 2009 then came on loan to us.... so doesnt look like Chelsea wanted to sell at that point and had made plans to keep previous to that
Carroll signed a 3 year deal at Newcastle March 2009 ..... so doesnt look like he was on the market either then or previously
Henderson - the manager of Sunderland Ricky Sbragia only ever talked of a loan deal, then he lost his job. Bruce started Henderson in the 1st team as soon as he was fit. Again doesnt seem like he was actually available
Again only my opinion but a throw away comment by RR about signing them doesnt ring true. Might have been what he would have liked to do but was it ever really on the cards?
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woody11462
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure Thorn didn't scout him.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Bell was definately thorns - "I've been an admirer of belly for some time" etc.
I remember Coleman saying similar before we signed him as well - "David Bell is a player I like".
As I said, nobody has a clue who pushed certain players, certainly not enough to say with 100% accuracy.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Grendel
Well-Known Member
is that the player or his own circumference
Ha ha like that one. His belly is probably more use - more effort to get it as well.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
is that the player or his own circumference
Ha ha like that one. His belly is probably more use - more effort to get it as well.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
When Bell signed a new contract there was an interview in the CET and thorn said bell was his find.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Kyle was an Adams signing before Thorn had joined the club
Eastwood was a Coleman signing and he wanted him at Fulham http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...an-tips-Freddy-Eastwood-for-the-Prem-Lge.html
Clingan is a good championship player and is made a scapegoat by fans, didn't have the best of seasons last season but was good before that
Deegan, Mcpake, Baker were all gambles for a team looking to do things on the cheap, Mcpake and Deegan could have been decent players but were ruined by injuries and Baker is inconsistent
Mcdonald has played less than 25 games for the club and was injured for a lot of last season and no doubt you will be sucking his balls if he scores over 15 goals this season
Murphy is an ok keeper and was a budget signing
Granted Bell and Mcindoe were shocking players