Thorn got it wrong today... (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mumford and Daughter
- Start date
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
Someone needs to teach Thorn about right and wrong subs then. Todays result was his and his alone. We should have taken a point.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
His was too harsh in his comments. We lost because of lack of substitutions and this obsession with sticking with one formation. We were being over-run and the diamond formation was not appropriate the way the game was going. We needed to shore up midfield. This was a bad game to lose with the fixtures coming up and Thorn's reaction to defeat does not bode well.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
"It was a two-footed tackle and so it had to be a sending-off. He (Bigirimana) is not that way inclined - there is no malice in him. He also let his man run off him for their first goal so it has not been a good birthday for him. As soon as he made the tackle, I thought he was going to be sent off. It was difficult with the 10 men because they used the extra player well and it's difficult standing there when there is not much you can do."
Got this quote from Yahoo
It does say this as well though
"I am not hanging anybody out to dry but when we heap praise on the lads, they have to take the criticism too."
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Tbh I think we should have won and that is the biggest disappointment about today for me.
Nick
Administrator
Love how there is not much that can be done! What about a sub or changing formation to soak the pressure up?
Did he not learn at palace about late pressure?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The actual interview with CWR was more critical. He was asked about how Bigi felt and he mutters "I don't care" and he was "cheesed off" - aren't we all.
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
After the off we had enough about us to earn a point in my opinion. The fact we didnt lies with Thorn.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Yea I don't understand why we changed when we scored though, for me the performance had already gone tits up before the red card. If we had continued the same as we had, after we had scored I think we would have gone on to get a second.
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
I was just saying ronald looked good for a couple more. Then he took him off. WHY?
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
No idea, obviously Thorn and the management staff felt he couldn't make it through 90 mins for fitness but I think he could have made it to the end just running off the adrenaline from scoring his first goal and yea he looked our greatest goal threat today.
It started to go wrong @ half time or just before when Austin came on as Stupot said,the goal came pretty much against the run of play,the change shuld have been made to bolster midfield ,poor Christie could'nt deal with stanislas ,his legs were gone for the last 20 ,someone needed to double up with him .
georgehudson
Well-Known Member
lots of good & intelligent posts, & i'm sure AT will be well aware of his/our shortcomings, but,
it doesn't disguise the frailties of our squad, in depth, and am sorry to repeat that if you do not strengthen the squad then the obvious will occur,
still i suppose KD (HA HA), has it all under control,
f.o.s.
& PUSB
it doesn't disguise the frailties of our squad, in depth, and am sorry to repeat that if you do not strengthen the squad then the obvious will occur,
still i suppose KD (HA HA), has it all under control,
f.o.s.
& PUSB
TheOldFive
New Member
I thought that by about the time we scored it was against the run of play as Burnley were getting their act together, and that most of the kids looked knackered, Bigi especially - bring him off for Deegan I was thinking, only to see ROD on for Cody. Bigi had slipped up a couple of times before the red which came from him seeking to rectify another miscontrol by him borne of exhaustion. I still thought with 10 we had a chance if Cameron and Deegan could have come on for Christie and Thomas, but no subs in that final 15 was a mystery when it was obvious Christie especially was out on his feet. Yes, hindsight is wonderful but loads of folk were seeing and saying this in real time, it was so obvious.
WillenhallSkyBlues
Well-Known Member
Thorns always getting it wrong, he needs to go back to looking at 12 year olds and let someone decent come in in his place
Astute
Well-Known Member
Oh what fun 
At work yesterday. Have to listen to you all to get an idea of what happened yesterday. Sounds like Bigi did well most of the game yesterday other than a mistake or two, one of them leading to a deserved red card. Poor substitution. Nothing changed in midfield after sending off. It also sounds like Cody is improving. Why take him off? Slight knock? Take ROD off after him coming on? Why take off fresh legs when we are getting outplayed? It is easier to come on when your side is playing the best out of the two. Why didn't Deegan come on? Why didn't he start? Are we struggling to put out a fit team? Is AT starting to feel the pressure? Sounds like our GK and defence played well again.
More questions than answers again. Sounds to me like AT put out a team to beat Burnley. Sounds like we had the best of the first half. Burnley changed things for the second half. This gave them the upper hand. My biggest hope now is that Cody is getting to where we need him to be. We need to forgive our younger players for mistakes. Hussey is improving with each game. We now need a big result against Donny. This division is very close. Fester getting beat by a few by Millwall Not a good result for us though. Proves money don't help you beat teams near the bottom. If Cody kicks on we could have an improved season. If he don't then we will have a long season.
At work yesterday. Have to listen to you all to get an idea of what happened yesterday. Sounds like Bigi did well most of the game yesterday other than a mistake or two, one of them leading to a deserved red card. Poor substitution. Nothing changed in midfield after sending off. It also sounds like Cody is improving. Why take him off? Slight knock? Take ROD off after him coming on? Why take off fresh legs when we are getting outplayed? It is easier to come on when your side is playing the best out of the two. Why didn't Deegan come on? Why didn't he start? Are we struggling to put out a fit team? Is AT starting to feel the pressure? Sounds like our GK and defence played well again.
More questions than answers again. Sounds to me like AT put out a team to beat Burnley. Sounds like we had the best of the first half. Burnley changed things for the second half. This gave them the upper hand. My biggest hope now is that Cody is getting to where we need him to be. We need to forgive our younger players for mistakes. Hussey is improving with each game. We now need a big result against Donny. This division is very close. Fester getting beat by a few by Millwall
Not a good result for us though. Proves money don't help you beat teams near the bottom. If Cody kicks on we could have an improved season. If he don't then we will have a long season.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Agree, but i was talking about over the 90 mins. As you say, over the 90 mins we probably had about 3 clear chances. Burnley had at least double that. We are not scoring enough and we are not creating enough chances.
Mumford and Daughter
New Member
What was said in the interview KD?
Otis
Well-Known Member
Thorn went over the top re Bigi for sure.
Geoff Foster asked him how Bigi was feeling in the dressing room and Thorn replied "I don't care." He also blamed the young lad for Burnley's first goal. If he's going to be like that then he should have come out and totally hammered ROD for his air shot for Burnley's second.
Geoff Foster asked him how Bigi was feeling in the dressing room and Thorn replied "I don't care." He also blamed the young lad for Burnley's first goal. If he's going to be like that then he should have come out and totally hammered ROD for his air shot for Burnley's second.
Mumford and Daughter
New Member
Didn't realise that, wrong to be using bigi as a scapegoat, the lad was brilliant 2nd half against Leeds and at only 18, He's going to make mistakes. That's when thorn has to support him but kick him while he's down.
Lord_Nampil
Well-Known Member
Thorns remarks about Bigi were totally over the top. If he wants to stay on the right side of the fans don't do that!
Is he the right man for the job? That's the question you need to answer!
Personally I think he makes to many wrong choices that have cost us!!!
Is he the right man for the job? That's the question you need to answer!
Personally I think he makes to many wrong choices that have cost us!!!
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sky_blue_up_north
Well-Known Member
The Bottom line is we have only scored more that one goal in a game all season, we concede more goals last 5 minute goals than anyone else. We had good win against what was a very poor Forest side, and got really lucky against Leeds. I just don't see how we are going to get out of this mess. We just don't seem to have a spark. Yesterday for the first 60 minutes we controlled to game without been dominate. Who has a the spark in the side. We need someone like Denis Wise, David Speedie, Terry Yorath, you get the picture. I said at the start of the season we would get relegated and nothing I have seen so far has changed my mind.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Let's get this into perspective, Thorn was was interviewed after another bitterly disappointing defeat and was obviously "well cheesed off".
The hindsight of substitutes aside, this is the second game this season we've lost due to a stupid sending off. Bigi played in that game and experienced who hard it is playing with a man down.
In a way thorn is right, if you are willing to take all the praise and back slaps you've also got to take the criticism. I'm sure Thorn will be supportive to bigi when they go back to the training ground, and a line will be drawn under it, and hopefully lesson learned. This wasn't bullying this was harsh lesson in the realities of professional football.
Also thorn has to take criticism, and has been taking plenty on here and on the phone in since he took over. He is learning on the job and hopefully more lessons will be leaned. We have to accept that he is doing his best and have to keep backing him, just like he'll be backing bigi next time he pulls on the sky blue shirt.
The hindsight of substitutes aside, this is the second game this season we've lost due to a stupid sending off. Bigi played in that game and experienced who hard it is playing with a man down.
In a way thorn is right, if you are willing to take all the praise and back slaps you've also got to take the criticism. I'm sure Thorn will be supportive to bigi when they go back to the training ground, and a line will be drawn under it, and hopefully lesson learned. This wasn't bullying this was harsh lesson in the realities of professional football.
Also thorn has to take criticism, and has been taking plenty on here and on the phone in since he took over. He is learning on the job and hopefully more lessons will be leaned. We have to accept that he is doing his best and have to keep backing him, just like he'll be backing bigi next time he pulls on the sky blue shirt.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Sorry, but a manager should never come out and publicly slate individuals. Tis done behind closed doors. Besides, Bigi is a young lad of just 18. Plenty of other players at fault yesterday for the defeat, but I notice Thorn didn't mention them.
Been a few players put in performances where they haven't even broken sweat in games. Can't recall Thorn naming and slating them.
To say he didn't care how Bigi was feeling was just plain wrong. Don't care how cheesed off he was. If the interview was immediately after the game and he said it in the heat of the moment then I could accept that, but this was 30 minutes after the end of the match.
Been a few players put in performances where they haven't even broken sweat in games. Can't recall Thorn naming and slating them.
To say he didn't care how Bigi was feeling was just plain wrong. Don't care how cheesed off he was. If the interview was immediately after the game and he said it in the heat of the moment then I could accept that, but this was 30 minutes after the end of the match.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I think AT showed similar inexperience to the young lads in the team. He didnt react to the sending off and like the defenders for their second goal got caught in the headlights. Does it make him a bad manager - no ..... but it does make him one with a lot to learn.
The referee made some debateable decisions and was guilty of inconsistency. There were two tackles at least that were similar to Bigi's but the Burnley players got away with it. The ref lost a lot of control from the moment in the first half he allowed Wallace to lecture him on a foul that Wallace had committed. We are, in comparison to other teams, far too respectful to the refs...... we seem to treat them as they should be whilst others get away with it. BUT the ref didnt lose us the game....... mistakes on and off the pitch did.
It was obvious that Howe would change the Burnley formation at half time, they were not really in the first half and something had to change. AT did not react to that threat. We kept doing the same things
When Bigi got sent off the players needed a lift, putting Deagan on would have said a lot to the players and fans. "thats it they get no more" Instead we play a forward lacking confidence in midfield. Round peg square hole ? We had options AT didnt want or have confidence in using them
I understand that Cody may have taken a little knock but come on Juke had been clattered 3 times by then and was limping. Sorry but taking Cody off was a mistake and i dont buy into he had "a little knock". Plus how does he get fit for 90 minutes if he doesnt play 90mins ?
I think most people watching could see that Thomas and Bigi had run their legs off and needed at least one replacing. Putting Deagan on would surely have refreshed things ?
The lack of leadership showed on the pitch. We scored we sat deep, they scored we sat even deeper. The players needed someone to grasp the game and drive them forward... Wood & Keogh stood up and were counted second half but they needed more support because Burnley upped their game and pressure. It was clear as soon as they scored their first that taking any points for CCFC was seriously at risk. What did we do - we kept the formation and changed not a lot.
ROD - feel sorry for him he seems to get a lot of stick and it doesnt work for him. However it matters not that he had been on 10 mins when Bigi went off, he is not a midfield player and was certainly an option to replace.
Personally I think we needed some energy into the team in the late second half. Cameron on and Keogh to RB would have been one move i made. The second would have been either Thomas or ROD off and Deagan on
AT also cannot just blame the players for keeping losing goals in the last few minutes. He has an input in that especially when he has the option to make 2 subs and doesnt. It is a team game and that team includes the manager and coach
As AT said the youngsters can get the plaudits but also the criticism. Well that principle applies to the manager too AT
What did disappoint me was AT's comments about Bigi after the game - sorry but if Bigi needs harsh words keep it in the dressing room. The reason I didnt like the comments is that when the likes of Bell, McSheffery, Clingan etc have mares he doesnt adopt the same stance and isnt so dismissive or critical of their performance. Bigi got it wrong, he knows that so does everyone else, his confidence will be crushed and AT added to that. Seems to me that a bit too often AT blames the inexperience/mistakes of our youngsters yet more senior players are protected or even rewarded ..... dont misunderstand he gets a lot of the other stuff with the young lads right but yesterday he achieved more damage to the youngsters than was publically clever. It was not a good or wise interview - bourne from frustration
The game was there for the taking, we should have been a couple up before Burnley scored. But once Burnley scored there was only going to be one winner because from that point forward we had a bad day on and off the pitch
The referee made some debateable decisions and was guilty of inconsistency. There were two tackles at least that were similar to Bigi's but the Burnley players got away with it. The ref lost a lot of control from the moment in the first half he allowed Wallace to lecture him on a foul that Wallace had committed. We are, in comparison to other teams, far too respectful to the refs...... we seem to treat them as they should be whilst others get away with it. BUT the ref didnt lose us the game....... mistakes on and off the pitch did.
It was obvious that Howe would change the Burnley formation at half time, they were not really in the first half and something had to change. AT did not react to that threat. We kept doing the same things
When Bigi got sent off the players needed a lift, putting Deagan on would have said a lot to the players and fans. "thats it they get no more" Instead we play a forward lacking confidence in midfield. Round peg square hole ? We had options AT didnt want or have confidence in using them
I understand that Cody may have taken a little knock but come on Juke had been clattered 3 times by then and was limping. Sorry but taking Cody off was a mistake and i dont buy into he had "a little knock". Plus how does he get fit for 90 minutes if he doesnt play 90mins ?
I think most people watching could see that Thomas and Bigi had run their legs off and needed at least one replacing. Putting Deagan on would surely have refreshed things ?
The lack of leadership showed on the pitch. We scored we sat deep, they scored we sat even deeper. The players needed someone to grasp the game and drive them forward... Wood & Keogh stood up and were counted second half but they needed more support because Burnley upped their game and pressure. It was clear as soon as they scored their first that taking any points for CCFC was seriously at risk. What did we do - we kept the formation and changed not a lot.
ROD - feel sorry for him he seems to get a lot of stick and it doesnt work for him. However it matters not that he had been on 10 mins when Bigi went off, he is not a midfield player and was certainly an option to replace.
Personally I think we needed some energy into the team in the late second half. Cameron on and Keogh to RB would have been one move i made. The second would have been either Thomas or ROD off and Deagan on
AT also cannot just blame the players for keeping losing goals in the last few minutes. He has an input in that especially when he has the option to make 2 subs and doesnt. It is a team game and that team includes the manager and coach
As AT said the youngsters can get the plaudits but also the criticism. Well that principle applies to the manager too AT
What did disappoint me was AT's comments about Bigi after the game - sorry but if Bigi needs harsh words keep it in the dressing room. The reason I didnt like the comments is that when the likes of Bell, McSheffery, Clingan etc have mares he doesnt adopt the same stance and isnt so dismissive or critical of their performance. Bigi got it wrong, he knows that so does everyone else, his confidence will be crushed and AT added to that. Seems to me that a bit too often AT blames the inexperience/mistakes of our youngsters yet more senior players are protected or even rewarded ..... dont misunderstand he gets a lot of the other stuff with the young lads right but yesterday he achieved more damage to the youngsters than was publically clever. It was not a good or wise interview - bourne from frustration
The game was there for the taking, we should have been a couple up before Burnley scored. But once Burnley scored there was only going to be one winner because from that point forward we had a bad day on and off the pitch
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stupot07
Well-Known Member
Thinking about it, if he was that cheesed off he should have asked harrison to do the interviews.
30 minutes might have past since the final whistle but he was obviously still too angry.
We also have to acknowledge that he is a novice manager and perhaps isn't that media savvy. Let just move on.
30 minutes might have past since the final whistle but he was obviously still too angry.
We also have to acknowledge that he is a novice manager and perhaps isn't that media savvy. Let just move on.
Mumford and Daughter
New Member
I just heard the interview. He's basically slagging off all the young players but refuses to blame himself.
Easy to slate the youth players but he needs to learn from his own mistakes before he can slag off Bigi and Christie.
One more thing - remmeber we said the other week there was rift within the camp, after hearing that interview you can see why cant you?
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Otis
Well-Known Member
But as said, there have been times when Sheff, Bell and Baker have put in disgraceful performances and have come off the field without a bead of sweat on them and nothing has been said. Bigi had a good game yesterday and made two innocent mistakes that cost. The sending off was a genuine attempt for the ball and the dismissal came as a result of naivety and not malice and simply a case of a young head making an error in trying to win the ball, as they are prone to do.
Bottom line is that Thorn chose to name one player in the interview for a slating and that one player was Bigi
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