The turn around ... (1 Viewer)

[Godiva]

I think a few were surprised to hear that the debts to sisu was converted into equity.
It may also have come as a surprise that the overall losses are down to less than £3m/yr. Especially as the club lost a lot of income following relegation.

Those two surprises may well be connected. Losing less than £3mil/yr and with the outlook of a reduced rent and even some matchday income means that the club is now self sustainable. The cash flow is close to be positive. No need for more postcards to sisu 'send more money'.
It also means the club now starts to have an actual value and that new investors will buy shares at prices reflecting that value. It will be easier to attract new investors.

Now we begin to see the result of the last 1½ years extreme cost cutting excercise.

Well done sisu!
It wasn't pretty, but it was necessary.

 

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[blueflint]

I think a few were surprised to hear that the debts to sisu was converted into equity.
It may also have come as a surprise that the overall losses are down to less than £3m/yr. Especially as the club lost a lot of income following relegation.

Those two surprises may well be connected. Losing less than £3mil/yr and with the outlook of a reduced rent and even some matchday income means that the club is now self sustainable. The cash flow is close to be positive. No need for more postcards to sisu 'send more money'.
It also means the club now starts to have an actual value and that new investors will buy shares at prices reflecting that value. It will be easier to attract new investors.

Now we begin to see the result of the last 1½ years extreme cost cutting excercise.

Well done sisu!
It wasn't pretty, but it was necessary.

to severe for too long and not finished yet

 

[CJparker]

Wait a minute - a lot of the reduction in losses goes back to the "savings" (aka cuts) made when Duleiu was in charge. The post-relegation accounts are yet to be filed. I remember KD stating that losses were much below the £400-500k mark they had been at previously - the effect of relegation will be to increase losses again, it's just that this is yet to show up as the current years' accounts are obviously yet to be filed.

I think the jury must remain out on SISU - if they are so great, where are we in L1 rather than the Prem? Why has no progress been made to buying the stadium? Why the continuing revolving door of managers? Someone has to be to blame and SISU is the common factor.

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

Frustrating as the the current set of books could have meant a proper push to the premiership if we were still in the championship.

Such a cock up.

 

[Nick]

It will be good to hear Oldskyblue's talk on the things like savings as he knows more about CCFC's finances than they do

 

[wingy]

I think a few were surprised to hear that the debts to sisu was converted into equity.
It may also have come as a surprise that the overall losses are down to less than £3m/yr. Especially as the club lost a lot of income following relegation.

Those two surprises may well be connected. Losing less than £3mil/yr and with the outlook of a reduced rent and even some matchday income means that the club is now self sustainable. The cash flow is close to be positive. No need for more postcards to sisu 'send more money'.
It also means the club now starts to have an actual value and that new investors will buy shares at prices reflecting that value. It will be easier to attract new investors.

Now we begin to see the result of the last 1½ years extreme cost cutting excercise.

Well done sisu!
It wasn't pretty, but it was necessary.

Seems those losses come in around predicted in the Losses thread ,so keoghs and Bigis fees nearly have it covered ,maybe one more in January.

Are you ready to accept that relegation was the preferred outcome for last season,for all the reasons i've alluded to before.

 

[CJparker]

Are you ready to accept that relegation was the preferred outcome for last season,for all the reasons i've alluded to before.

No I'm not, because it wasn't the preferred option - it will yet prove to be a financial hammer blow. For once I believe Fisher when he says that SISU do not want to be in League 1, they got into CCFC for Premiership football not home defeats to Stevenage fooking Borough

 

[Paxman II]

It is good to hear that but not a surprise...we have banged on about that for a year or so now and i was expecting it. There is much more to it of course but I don't have OSB's considerable patience in explaining the detail.

If crowds improve when we are winning (as expected) we will have a bigger average than the last few years. Rent reduction of a considerable amount and the 50% share in the running of the Ricoh which I'm told will give added income streams to the club and we are digging ourselves out of the hole we put ourselves in.

From League 1 it has to start quickly in the right direction and momentum continuing on a wave of optimism and that my friends is why they did not give AT more than 5 minutes. It's far too important for our very and contunued survival.

 

[Godiva]

Seems those losses come in around predicted in the Losses thread ,so keoghs and Bigis fees nearly have it covered ,maybe one more in January.

Are you ready to accept that relegation was the preferred outcome for last season,for all the reasons i've alluded to before.

No way!
We would have seen almost the same transfer scenario if we had stayed up. I said long ago when the FFP was being discussed that a lot of good players would be available for free as a consequence of the new regulation. I don't see why the club wouldn't have exploited that situation.

 

[wingy]

No I'm not, because it wasn't the preferred option - it will yet prove to be a financial hammer blow. For once I believe Fisher when he says that SISU do not want to be in League 1, they got into CCFC for Premiership football not home defeats to Stevenage fooking Borough

You're missing my point Cj that the only way to restructure costs in realtime was indeed to sacrifice league standing And shock the wage element of our costs into a managable level for the club to self support .The strategic elelment of relegation, bargaining power over salaries and everything Stadium related.

 

[RichieGunns]

I agree with Wingy. Relegation was needed. You could liken it to shock treatment when a patient's heart has stopped on the table and they shock the heart back into life. This is what SISU has done. It's not been pretty but it's working. We may not like the drop in league standing but neither do SISU and they're trying to do something about it so let's hope things will now start to go in the right direction once again!

 

[oldskyblue58]

couple of points ......

Loan to equity conversion .......... issue and allotment of shares hasnt turned up at Company House yet ...... or are they just acknowledging they cant get 35m back

they are losing 250k pm ..... is that including or excluding the rent at full value or their estimate of £150k pa. Also we sold Keogh and Bigi in the first quarter of this year so why is it current losses at 250K pm.

When they say losses do they mean losses or the funding requirement from SISU

the 3 year plan is just that a plan. It will be reviewed each year to see if targets hit and whether they continue to get support from SISU. SISU will still have to guarantee support annually to the auditors

Think they had to be decisive over AT ..... the financial plan demands instant results ..... and it was not happening.

my recollection is that ARVO had a charge over all assets including Ryton ...... if so how is the training ground not mortgaged ...... or has ARVO been paid off? I doubt it

How much did they have to repay ticketus ? and where did funds come from ? Player sales ? SISU ?

TF and SW wheeled and dealed at Charlton shifting players in and out on a large scale...... i expect similar. Player sales are very much part of the plan and are necessary in order to get the player budget high enough

THe club is not as yet self sustaining otherwise there wouldnt be a loss or funding requirement of 3m pa. Long way to go yet and it depends of bums on seats which depends on team success........ long way off that right now

need to listen to recording of fans forum again though

 

[Godiva]

couple of points ......

Loan to equity conversion .......... issue and allotment of shares hasnt turned up at Company House yet ...... or are they just acknowledging they cant get 35m back

they are losing 250k pm ..... is that including or excluding the rent at full value or their estimate of £150k pa. Also we sold Keogh and Bigi in the first quarter of this year so why is it current losses at 250K pm.

When they say losses do they mean losses or the funding requirement from SISU

the 3 year plan is just that a plan. It will be reviewed each year to see if targets hit and whether they continue to get support from SISU. SISU will still have to guarantee support annually to the auditors

Think they had to be decisive over AT ..... the financial plan demands instant results ..... and it was not happening.

my recollection is that ARVO had a charge over all assets including Ryton ...... if so how is the training ground not mortgaged ...... or has ARVO been paid off? I doubt it

TF and SW wheeled and dealed at Charlton shifting players in and out on a large scale...... i expect similar. Player sales are very much part of the plan and are necessary in order to get the player budget high enough

THe club is not as yet self sustaining otherwise there wouldnt be a loss or funding requirement of 3m pa. Long way to go yet and it depends of bums on seats which depends on team success........ long way off that right now

need to listen to recording of fans forum again though

I think Fischer wouldn't lie about the equity part ... it would be so easy to find out.

In my post I said that with a reduced rent and some matchday income, the club will be self sustainable. The overall losses contains non cash flow items, so with a rent at league 1 level and matchday income the club should be close to a positive cash flow.

My guess is that sisu have accepted the three year plan and put in enough money to pay off all outside debts, including ARVO. But that remains a guess till we actually see it in the books.

Oldskyblue58, my friend You are a very sceptical man!

 

[oldskyblue58]

Just saying that the relevant forms have not been filed either for the shares or the mortgage.

I am sure he would like an average League 1 rent ............ hasnt got an average League 1 ground though ........ also matchday income come at a cost

paid to be sceptical but in a healthy way ............ how many times have we been told things and it hasnt happened.............

 

[Ashdown]

I think a few were surprised to hear that the debts to sisu was converted into equity.
It may also have come as a surprise that the overall losses are down to less than £3m/yr. Especially as the club lost a lot of income following relegation.

Those two surprises may well be connected. Losing less than £3mil/yr and with the outlook of a reduced rent and even some matchday income means that the club is now self sustainable. The cash flow is close to be positive. No need for more postcards to sisu 'send more money'.
It also means the club now starts to have an actual value and that new investors will buy shares at prices reflecting that value. It will be easier to attract new investors.

Now we begin to see the result of the last 1½ years extreme cost cutting excercise.

Well done sisu!
It wasn't pretty, but it was necessary.

FFS, we are still losing £3million a year and you are hailing this as a sustainable success ?!!!

 

[Godiva]

FFS, we are still losing £3million a year and you are hailing this as a sustainable success ?!!!

Well, my headline is 'turn around'.
Take the 3mil. Then take away say 600t in reduced rent. Then maybe 400t in matchday income. Then you need to take out all non cash items like depreciations and player amortizations. You only need to add some positivity to the club and you will see an upturn in team results and people through the gates.

We are getting near to the point of positive cash flow - and then it will be a success.

 

[Evans020]

They said and correct me if I'm wrong..they have paid off the mortgage on ryton the other week.so that is indeed ccfcs again

 

[wingy]

They said and correct me if I'm wrong..they have paid off the mortgage on ryton the other week.so that is indeed ccfcs again

Its still subject to the ARVO charge,so paying off the mortgage merely leaves them as sole secured creditors,this along with paying off the Ticketus loan ,But can't seem to find the rent,seems we're readied for sale IMO.

 

[Godiva]

seems we're readied for sale IMO.

Sort of - by exchanging the loans to equity the club is now easier to sell. The valuation can be made on the assets and liabilities and future outlook.
But it's also easier to attract co-investors by issuing new shares. And I think that is a lot more realistic.
Who knows - they may even put shares up for sale to us fans.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

I don't understand finance, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this equity stuff. As I understand it, money put into the club by ARVO was in the form of equity, which to me means that ARVO are now part owners of CCFC. Have they passed the Football League 'fit and proper' test?