Thank you,
A honest answer at last.
And if its true Sisu are the preferred bidder you really haven't achieved feck all !
A honest answer at last.
And if its true Sisu are the preferred bidder you really haven't achieved feck all !
So people with millions couldnt do anything yet a group of fans should have been able to destroy a hedge fund who have had 5 years to plan this and the supporters a few months and a couple of quid. However this is now where it will get interesting
I'm getting sick of all the infighting, it does nothing to better CCFC. Agree there are lots of different views and opinions, but resorting to personal insult should be avoided at all costs for the sake of debate.
PGSM - i think ive said before if you don't like the way the trust is managed, join it, change the way it is managed. I didn't get an answer to that last time.
Perhaps refer to the trusts constitution and take things forward from there.
http://skybluetrust.co.uk/index.php/trust-constitution
CovCraig@Bury - If you're not happy with the successes achieved by the trust, join it, get some action going, fight for the cause. The more ideas available to the trust, the more successes it will achieve. With everyone's help more successes will lead to a greater football club which we can all be proud of (remember that feeling!). Rather than point fingers, and try to split the fan base, why not try to see what can be achieved, not just individually, but as part of a community!
Nick - I completely agree with you that there should be some way of putting forward ideas other than via email or face to face... I reckon a petition style plug in on the trusts website would be a good idea. That way members could sign the petition so that if its a silly idea, it will get ignored... If enough members sign it, it goes out to vote either by email or by some sort of online voting mechanism...
PS Supporters Direct is funded by various public and private sector organisations. Not paid for by the trust as far as I'm aware... Perhaps Michael can correct if I'm wrong though...
PGSM - i think ive said before if you don't like the way the trust is managed, join it, change the way it is managed. I didn't get an answer to that last time.
Perhaps refer to the trusts constitution and take things forward from there.
http://skybluetrust.co.uk/index.php/trust-constitution
CovCraig@Bury - If you're not happy with the successes achieved by the trust, join it, get some action going, fight for the cause. The more ideas available to the trust, the more successes it will achieve. With everyone's help more successes will lead to a greater football club which we can all be proud of (remember that feeling!). Rather than point fingers, and try to split the fan base, why not try to see what can be achieved, not just individually, but as part of a community!
Nick - I completely agree with you that there should be some way of putting forward ideas other than via email or face to face... I reckon a petition style plug in on the trusts website would be a good idea. That way members could sign the petition so that if its a silly idea, it will get ignored... If enough members sign it, it goes out to vote either by email or by some sort of online voting mechanism...
PS Supporters Direct is funded by various public and private sector organisations. Not paid for by the trust as far as I'm aware... Perhaps Michael can correct if I'm wrong though...
Win9Nut. I admire your devotion to the cause - I really do. But are you seriously saying that I should join the trust? The same trust that has tried its utmost to silence me and ridicule me at every single turn. The same trust that reneges on its own voted for plan of actions?
You just don't seem to get it! The trust are a busted flush. They have had nearly 2 years to raise funds to aid in a buyout, or arrange protests or do something - anything!!!
Yet they only started doing something when I humiliated them. This is a grioup that claims a membership of 2,000. Don't you think that in nearly 2 years and with a fighting fund they should at the very least be able to say they have done more than 1 bloke on his own - but they cannot because they have not! Even their board member has stated so on this very thread! #142!
But let's hypothetically ignore that and say hypothetically I joined. Do you honestly believe these people would allow me to shake up their little clique ? Already 2 trust trolls have left (I can only presume because they couldn't agree on actions). Sure I could shake them up, however they are even more intransigent than sisu! They do not even take notice of 99% of their own membership! (how else do you explain them still coming out and saying they will sit down and talk with sisu - Especially when they had a vote and with great fanfare claimed they will now no longer deal with sisu!) Bot how these people bend with the wind!
As for supporters direct there IS a membership fee. It would have been wise that before you made the blind leap of faith in the impartiality of supporters direct that you actually done some research (as I always do before I state something as fact!).
As of right now, the first year is free, then you have to pay a membership fee of £100 / year and they have to have a turnover of £10k - which right now unless they have had a spurt of income they will not achieve. In that case they might be allowed associate membership for a further 12 months, however if after that they still do not meet the criteria then they may well be expelled from supporters direct!
So you are absolutely wrong in saying that supporters direct - indeed the last I was aware the trust had around £2k cash, which means that they have to give away 5% of that money just so they can talk to supporters direct !
Think its safe to say it seems like a total waste of money!
I sense you think the trust are more than what they actually are. This fabled supporters direct is basically a subscription - like joining the FSB. Sounds good but like everything with this trust is just bluster and no substance!
I appreciate more successes might bring the fans together, but you seem to gloss over the fact that the trust has not had a single success story in its entire existence! I mean you do realise one of their stated goals was to get the tannoy turned down - and they didn't even achieve that!
Seems you have listened far too much to the likes of the sisu stooge on CWR and the hype coming from the trust. They are hardly going to come out in public and say something like
"Hey guys we haven't actually achieved anything, but join us and we might have some success later" - If they did they would fold in a week!
Win9 - I urge you just do the research for yourself. Don't rely on other people's views use your own judgement. Just look at the attacks against me. Insults are meaningless, but just look and tell me how many of these attacks are backed up with counter arguments?
Calling me an idiot, mentally deranged, and then swearing insults shows up their inability to defend themselves with a lucid argument. You may not agree with my argument, but you can never say I haven't backed it with evidence! Can any of the trust trolls say that?
I am not trying to split the fan base, it is already fractured. Have you not noticed how all of a sudden more and more people are criticising the trust? It appears that I was the first to go public with my concerns, but clearly I am not the only one, and as the past few weeks have shown, my concerns were well founded!
You aren't going to sit there and say the way they barracked TF was beneficial to the club in any way are you? They hijacked those forums, and all that did was make them look like zealots rather than a reasoned coherent unit. Can you imagine them in the boardroom - it would just be unthinkable - nothing would ever get done!
So Sure the trust needs changing, but there is not a hope in hell of it happening. The board are the founders - it is their baby. They are less likely to go than sisu. But why would I want to join? They have shown themselves a total irrelevance.
But if you can tell me ten changes the trust has achieved in the club I will be staggered. Five I will be surprised. Even 1 there is no evidence for. Therefore that leaves the only rational logical conclusion that they are a white elephant, and rather than me joining I suggest you and any other member of the trust leave!
I have proven one person can get just as much information from the league, and squirrel and OSB have shown they can get financial information relevant to a case for sisu not getting the club. Now they might be members of the trust, but they certainly haven't stated they are, and there is no question the trust wasn't involved in any of their research!
So I turn your question around - and ask why are you still a member of the trust? The London sky blues has been around longer, and they have award ceremonies!
I genuinely believe you are flogging a dead horse with the trust. Why do you need to go to them if you have an idea? Why can't you pursue it yourself? When you finally realise that truth, then the trust will finally be put into the dustbin of history where it belongs. Then their trolls can move on and moan about something else!
SBT has betrayed the fanbase and its own membership. It is time for them to go!
You just don't seem to get it! The trust are a busted flush. They have had nearly 2 years to raise funds to aid in a buyout, or arrange protests or do something - anything!!!
Yet they only started doing something when I humiliated them. This is a grioup that claims a membership of 2,000. Don't you think that in nearly 2 years and with a fighting fund they should at the very least be able to say they have done more than 1 bloke on his own - but they cannot because they have not! Even their board member has stated so on this very thread! #142!
But let's hypothetically ignore that and say hypothetically I joined. Do you honestly believe these people would allow me to shake up their little clique ? Already 2 trust trolls have left (I can only presume because they couldn't agree on actions). Sure I could shake them up, however they are even more intransigent than sisu! They do not even take notice of 99% of their own membership! (how else do you explain them still coming out and saying they will sit down and talk with sisu - Especially when they had a vote and with great fanfare claimed they will now no longer deal with sisu!) Bot how these people bend with the wind!
As for supporters direct there IS a membership fee. It would have been wise that before you made the blind leap of faith in the impartiality of supporters direct that you actually done some research (as I always do before I state something as fact!).
As of right now, the first year is free, then you have to pay a membership fee of £100 / year and they have to have a turnover of £10k - which right now unless they have had a spurt of income they will not achieve. In that case they might be allowed associate membership for a further 12 months, however if after that they still do not meet the criteria then they may well be expelled from supporters direct!
So you are absolutely wrong in saying that supporters direct - indeed the last I was aware the trust had around £2k cash, which means that they have to give away 5% of that money just so they can talk to supporters direct !
Think its safe to say it seems like a total waste of money!
I sense you think the trust are more than what they actually are. This fabled supporters direct is basically a subscription - like joining the FSB. Sounds good but like everything with this trust is just bluster and no substance!
I appreciate more successes might bring the fans together, but you seem to gloss over the fact that the trust has not had a single success story in its entire existence! I mean you do realise one of their stated goals was to get the tannoy turned down - and they didn't even achieve that!
Seems you have listened far too much to the likes of the sisu stooge on CWR and the hype coming from the trust. They are hardly going to come out in public and say something like
"Hey guys we haven't actually achieved anything, but join us and we might have some success later" - If they did they would fold in a week!
Win9 - I urge you just do the research for yourself. Don't rely on other people's views use your own judgement. Just look at the attacks against me. Insults are meaningless, but just look and tell me how many of these attacks are backed up with counter arguments?
Calling me an idiot, mentally deranged, and then swearing insults shows up their inability to defend themselves with a lucid argument. You may not agree with my argument, but you can never say I haven't backed it with evidence! Can any of the trust trolls say that?
I am not trying to split the fan base, it is already fractured. Have you not noticed how all of a sudden more and more people are criticising the trust? It appears that I was the first to go public with my concerns, but clearly I am not the only one, and as the past few weeks have shown, my concerns were well founded!
You aren't going to sit there and say the way they barracked TF was beneficial to the club in any way are you? They hijacked those forums, and all that did was make them look like zealots rather than a reasoned coherent unit. Can you imagine them in the boardroom - it would just be unthinkable - nothing would ever get done!
So Sure the trust needs changing, but there is not a hope in hell of it happening. The board are the founders - it is their baby. They are less likely to go than sisu. But why would I want to join? They have shown themselves a total irrelevance.
But if you can tell me ten changes the trust has achieved in the club I will be staggered. Five I will be surprised. Even 1 there is no evidence for. Therefore that leaves the only rational logical conclusion that they are a white elephant, and rather than me joining I suggest you and any other member of the trust leave!
I have proven one person can get just as much information from the league, and squirrel and OSB have shown they can get financial information relevant to a case for sisu not getting the club. Now they might be members of the trust, but they certainly haven't stated they are, and there is no question the trust wasn't involved in any of their research!
So I turn your question around - and ask why are you still a member of the trust? The London sky blues has been around longer, and they have award ceremonies!
I genuinely believe you are flogging a dead horse with the trust. Why do you need to go to them if you have an idea? Why can't you pursue it yourself? When you finally realise that truth, then the trust will finally be put into the dustbin of history where it belongs. Then their trolls can move on and moan about something else!
SBT has betrayed the fanbase and its own membership. It is time for them to go!
Oh BTW win9 I forgot to say about the constitution. Have you been reading my comments at all?
If you had you would realise I know their constitution better than an awful lot of their own membership apparently (certainly more than steve.b50 and he is on the board!)
All members sign it saying they will not tolerate any behaviour that could put the trust into disrepute.
Calling people cunts, idiots twats, etc and calling for accounts to be blocked sort of breaks those rules. Yet when you raise this, l;ow and behold not only do the trust claim they are "just banter" they say they refuse to investigate further unless you pay them £500. Not only that but Jan specifically PM's me saying no member would behave in such a manner and he promised if they did, it would be fully investigated and would be disciplined.
Yet low and behold when I took him at his word, the trust come out saying Jan was incorrect and they would never do such a thing! Now you tell me are they following their own rules? It is irrelevant if I don't - I am not a member, if I were then I would be both legally and honour bound to abide by their rules. Whilst the sentiment is worthy, as far as at least 2 and probably all of the board just pay lip-service to their own constitution, as it is wording required to be in supporters direct.
If I am wrong, then surely by now the trust would have at the least come out and stated they do not condone abusive comments would they not?
No once again it shows the hypocrisy, arrogance, and just plain contempt they show for anyone who dares to have a contrary position to them!
So if they aren't following their own code of conduct, and they aren't bringing changes to the club, and are failing in their sole objective of buying the club, once more - what is the point of still being in the trust? It has got to a stage where it exists for its own sake. If it were just a fan club then no probs - they can do what they like. But they want a real say in the club, and are not willing to pay for that privilege. For these and many other reasons, the trust must simply cease to exist. If anything it is detrimental to the welfare of the club, and has caused nothing but fractions and discord from day one!
If you had you would realise I know their constitution better than an awful lot of their own membership apparently (certainly more than steve.b50 and he is on the board!)
All members sign it saying they will not tolerate any behaviour that could put the trust into disrepute.
Calling people cunts, idiots twats, etc and calling for accounts to be blocked sort of breaks those rules. Yet when you raise this, l;ow and behold not only do the trust claim they are "just banter" they say they refuse to investigate further unless you pay them £500. Not only that but Jan specifically PM's me saying no member would behave in such a manner and he promised if they did, it would be fully investigated and would be disciplined.
Yet low and behold when I took him at his word, the trust come out saying Jan was incorrect and they would never do such a thing! Now you tell me are they following their own rules? It is irrelevant if I don't - I am not a member, if I were then I would be both legally and honour bound to abide by their rules. Whilst the sentiment is worthy, as far as at least 2 and probably all of the board just pay lip-service to their own constitution, as it is wording required to be in supporters direct.
If I am wrong, then surely by now the trust would have at the least come out and stated they do not condone abusive comments would they not?
No once again it shows the hypocrisy, arrogance, and just plain contempt they show for anyone who dares to have a contrary position to them!
So if they aren't following their own code of conduct, and they aren't bringing changes to the club, and are failing in their sole objective of buying the club, once more - what is the point of still being in the trust? It has got to a stage where it exists for its own sake. If it were just a fan club then no probs - they can do what they like. But they want a real say in the club, and are not willing to pay for that privilege. For these and many other reasons, the trust must simply cease to exist. If anything it is detrimental to the welfare of the club, and has caused nothing but fractions and discord from day one!
You talk crap, cannot even be bothered to read your posts any more, no one takes you seriously.
SISU OUT
PSGM1 OUT
It was always going to be sisu. If a council and their army of lawyers couldnt stop it happening what could the trust have done to make a difference . they're doing something today though.while we all sit on our arses moaning . good luck to all that are giving up they're saturday and travelling to london.
Agreed i wouldn't knock anybody for trying. This is just the first shot since yesterdays announcement, what will it achieve ? not a lot but sisu will notice it's a little bit like "we know where you are " We also know sisu don't like adverse publicity. I think with recent events it will get that. Ordinary fans can't do a lot unfortunately and it can be a long hard road but eventually the fan will succeed because he/she will always be there.
pgsm1 like I have all said before who started all of this YOU are people not allowed to defend what they believe in just because YOU don't like it you need to grow up and accept that we all have our own views.
YOU started all of this with your constant Ranting you have not posted a Tread on here without then ranting on about the Trust.
YOU are the one who started all the name calling if YOU don't like it don't give it
YOU are the one who claimed you were being Threatened but it is alright for your follower Craig to threaten Simon
YOU are the one that changes any decent Tread with your remarks
So for such a hypocritical person, Give us the proof of all these things or just go away like I have said before prove it and we may follow you but accusations go nowhere
As for the constitution do normal fans/people even read them answer is NO....
I am a Union member have I read the constitution NO have I broke their rules probably, have they thrown me out NO that is life my friend if you don't like it change it.
BUT ANSWER THE QUESTIONS WE ARE STILL WAITING.......................................:blue:
YOU started all of this with your constant Ranting you have not posted a Tread on here without then ranting on about the Trust.
YOU are the one who started all the name calling if YOU don't like it don't give it
YOU are the one who claimed you were being Threatened but it is alright for your follower Craig to threaten Simon
YOU are the one that changes any decent Tread with your remarks
So for such a hypocritical person, Give us the proof of all these things or just go away like I have said before prove it and we may follow you but accusations go nowhere
As for the constitution do normal fans/people even read them answer is NO....
I am a Union member have I read the constitution NO have I broke their rules probably, have they thrown me out NO that is life my friend if you don't like it change it.
BUT ANSWER THE QUESTIONS WE ARE STILL WAITING.......................................:blue: