The system we have played (1 Viewer)

If we get 3 points on Saturday then things will calm down for a while but there has to be concern because we were absolutely awful last night.

Warwickhunt said:

Got it in one! Robbins scrambles to keep them all happy! he could end up with a poisonous snake in the dressing room that upsets the team

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100% this ends with one of them demanding to leave and it's either going to be JCH or Ponti

Londonccfcfan said:

Isn't it blatantly obvious to all that to accommodate Andreu we have to play 3 at the back?

Yesterday seemed like an ideal time to try it.

Ideally if all fit
Burge
Willis Davies Hyam
Grimmer Brown
Ogogu Doyle/Kelly
Bayliss/Jones Andreu
Biamou

There's no doubt our 3 stand out players in squad are;

JONES...ANDREU And Bayliss...somehow he needs to get the best out of them and build the team around them.

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3 at the back is always a recipe for disaster. Biamou as a lone striker in that formation might work as the opposition will be pissing themselves laughing at the thought he can deliver he may get a chance.

Then again as he spends the whole 90 minutes trying to hide behind a defender probably not.

speedie87 said:

We were lucky last season jones got injured and we switched to 442

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yes everything was fed to Jones and McNulty never had a sniff, formation forced due to injury and he gets 28 goals
Was it down to the managers poor direction originally?
Put that to the start of the formation /plan at the start of this season has he got it wrong again ?
In saying that I have faith in the manager before I get slaughtered for questioning

The start of this season is very like the start of last season - we looked poor with this exact 4-2-3-1 system and I'm amazed MR has gone back to it. One thing I admired about MR last season was that he had the nerve to admit it wasn't working and ditch the system (admittedly only due to injuries). I can only hope that this season progresses like last season did.

Last season we ironically only improved after season ending injuries to Jones and Andreu forced MR to eventually change the system to more of a 4-4-2. This gave Bayliss (and Kelly) more freedom to get forward and create (giving the opposition things to think about, pushing them back and relieving pressure on us defensively) and a partner to create space for McNulty. All of them thrived.

2 DCM and 1 up top means the three play deeper and the lone forward is isolated. This season I think is even worse because LOB doesn't come off his line at all, so the defence is deeper and thus everyone in front has to drop even deeper too. We're encouraging the opposition to push out and put us under pressure. That lets them create chances and gives them confidence, while we drop even deeper to try and stem the flow of chances creating a vicious circle.

This system is designed to be solid defensively, soak up pressure and hit on the counter , meaning strikers aren't going to get many chances and need to stick the few that come away. If you've not got strikers with particularly great strike ratios or clinical finishers (as we seem to have) it puts a lot of pressure on the team defensively to not concede as they've not got faith in the strikers to put the ball away. So they're edgy, nervous and more likely to make an error due to it.

We're playing a system that doesn't play to the attributes of any of our strikers, puts a leash on Bayliss' (and Kelly's when he's fit) creativity and passing and puts immense pressure on the defence to keep a clean sheet all while not being very attractive or entertaining to the fans. Just how is this going to work?

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:

The start of this season is very like the start of last season - we looked poor with this exact 4-2-3-1 system and I'm amazed MR has gone back to it. One thing I admired about MR last season was that he had the nerve to admit it wasn't working and ditch the system (admittedly only due to injuries). I can only hope that this season progresses like last season did.

Last season we ironically only improved after season ending injuries to Jones and Andreu forced MR to eventually change the system to more of a 4-4-2. This gave Bayliss (and Kelly) more freedom to get forward and create (giving the opposition things to think about, pushing them back and relieving pressure on us defensively) and a partner to create space for McNulty. All of them thrived.

2 DCM and 1 up top means the three play deeper and the lone forward is isolated. This season I think is even worse because LOB doesn't come off his line at all, so the defence is deeper and thus everyone in front has to drop even deeper too. We're encouraging the opposition to push out and put us under pressure. That lets them create chances and gives them confidence, while we drop even deeper to try and stem the flow of chances creating a vicious circle.

This system is designed to be solid defensively, soak up pressure and hit on the counter , meaning strikers aren't going to get many chances and need to stick the few that come away. If you've not got strikers with particularly great strike ratios or clinical finishers (as we seem to have) it puts a lot of pressure on the team defensively to not concede as they've not got faith in the strikers to put the ball away. So they're edgy, nervous and more likely to make an error due to it.

We're playing a system that doesn't play to the attributes of any of our strikers, puts a leash on Bayliss' (and Kelly's when he's fit) creativity and passing and puts immense pressure on the defence to keep a clean sheet all while not being very attractive or entertaining to the fans. Just how is this going to work?

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We were organised at the back last season.

I've also got an issue with strikers playing those wide roles, which we've done since the days of Andy Morrell and not once has it worked. Strikers don't drop back or tend to have the defensive mindset to cover the full back, leaving them exposed. Attacking wise they're often not great crossers of the ball and even if they get the ball in a lone striker tends to get swamped by defenders and it's cleared.

If MR is adamant to play 4-2-3-1 personally I'd try full backs in those wide attacking positions, as at least they're used to playing wide and have more awareness of helping out behind. In the modern game they're more adept at getting forward and crossing and are more like wingers. Having said that Shipley would probably fit in well on the left (even though we've got four LB's on the books) and Jones will undoubtedly be on the right when he comes back so maybe until then Sterling (who has looked poor thus far) in front of Grimmer and hope he settles down is the way to go? Admittedly this seems to be what MR tried against Oxford without success.

When Kelly is available I can also see Doyle taking more of a backseat as the season progresses, being used as a sub to help close games out.