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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (11 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,511
Astute said:
Yet how much is spunked up the wall by the EU?

Remember when they said they could make savings to make up the shortfall in our contributions?
Click to expand...

Has the new budget been agreed yet?
 
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,512
martcov said:
Which is why we need to be in a trading bloc.
Click to expand...
Which has protected us thus far ???? No it hasn't the Far East steal intellectual property, copy products at will, manipulate currency, exploit their own people and transport their goods round the world with complete impunity.......whilst protecting their own markets where they can. Love him or loath him, it's only Donald Trump who has actually stood up to them.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,513
Ashdown said:
I agree with some of what you say but the government is only taking so much from all tax receipts......and that is with high employment at the moment..........but still it spends more than it takes. If we spend more now, it increases the debt and in the future that debt repayment will mean even less to spend for future governments. Whilst extreme poverty shouldn't be tolerated in a Western Nation like the UK, I do still think that many people need to start lowering their expectations for life. When I was younger in the 1970's/80's we never had a lot at all but then neither did our friends and friends parents as a rule so there wasn't the culture of envy we seem to have today...... a lot of which is spread around social media etc.
If there is a way of taxing the super rich, then I'm all for it but as we all know, they have the knack of tax avoidance under any government and seem to just get richer every year.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between envious and poor to the point where you know that you will never ever have a well paid job where you don’t have to struggle to get to the end of the month. One reason for some rich people wanting out of the EU is because of the trying to clamp down on tax havens.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,514
Ashdown said:
Which has protected us thus far ???? No it hasn't the Far East steal intellectual property, copy products at will, manipulate currency, exploit their own people and transport their goods round the world with complete impunity.......whilst protecting their own markets where they can. Love him or loath him, it's only Donald Trump who has actually stood up to them.
Click to expand...

It has to do with WTO rules.
„
I further explained that China, the US and the EU countries are members of the WTO, and are obliged to follow its practices. We expect the US and China to tackle their differences on that basis. Since the mid-20th century, the EU has firmly contributed to internationally agreed rules and institutions together with the US. We believe in the strength and validity of those mechanisms. The EU is working hard to create a level playing field for all countries and reciprocity is crucial to create that, I underlined.“

This is a quote from a report on the EU China summit last year. The EU is putting pressure on China. They don’t want to wreck the EU economy by gobbing off and starting a trade war though. The UK sent an aircraft carrier which pissed the Chinese off.

Trump has damaged his economy through his actions and created uncertainty in the world economy.

China may well end up listening to the EU which is a major market for them. The EU wants reciprocity to open up the Chinese market to EU firms.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,515
Deleted member 5849 said:
I never trust anybody who comes up with the vague 'efficiency savings' as a solution. That usually equals 'cuts'.
Click to expand...
As long as they look at what they waste money on. Or even where and who the money goes to.
 
Reactions: Westendlad

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,516
Ashdown said:
I agree with some of what you say but the government is only taking so much from all tax receipts......and that is with high employment at the moment..........but still it spends more than it takes. If we spend more now, it increases the debt and in the future that debt repayment will mean even less to spend for future governments. Whilst extreme poverty shouldn't be tolerated in a Western Nation like the UK, I do still think that many people need to start lowering their expectations for life. When I was younger in the 1970's/80's we never had a lot at all but then neither did our friends and friends parents as a rule so there wasn't the culture of envy we seem to have today...... a lot of which is spread around social media etc.
If there is a way of taxing the super rich, then I'm all for it but as we all know, they have the knack of tax avoidance under any government and seem to just get richer every year.
Click to expand...
If you tax the rich too much they will just pay tax elsewhere.

I would happily pay more tax. But for millions of people more tax would just mean more in working benefits to be paid or even put them into working benefits. Paying more tax isn't as simple as just picking a group and then collecting more tax.
 
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,517
martcov said:
It has to do with WTO rules.
„
I further explained that China, the US and the EU countries are members of the WTO, and are obliged to follow its practices. We expect the US and China to tackle their differences on that basis. Since the mid-20th century, the EU has firmly contributed to internationally agreed rules and institutions together with the US. We believe in the strength and validity of those mechanisms. The EU is working hard to create a level playing field for all countries and reciprocity is crucial to create that, I underlined.“

This is a quote from a report on the EU China summit last year. The EU is putting pressure on China. They don’t want to wreck the EU economy by gobbing off and starting a trade war though. The UK sent an aircraft carrier which pissed the Chinese off.

Trump has damaged his economy through his actions and created uncertainty in the world economy.

China may well end up listening to the EU which is a major market for them. The EU wants reciprocity to open up the Chinese market to EU firms.
Click to expand...
It's just been talk, the Chinese listen, walk away and carry on with their own dangerous expansionist plans, whilst encouraging it's 1.3 billion people to take care of their own. All the while spending a large budget on their military I might add. By not standing up to them we are funding our foe of the future. The UK and Europe has become a warehouse for their products and that might satisfy a few managers but actually only provides warehouse and distribution type low paid jobs for many.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,518
Ashdown said:
It's just been talk, the Chinese listen, walk away and carry on with their own dangerous expansionist plans, whilst encouraging it's 1.3 billion people to take care of their own. All the while spending a large budget on their military I might add. By not standing up to them we are funding our foe of the future. The UK and Europe has become a warehouse for their products and that might satisfy a few managers but actually only provides warehouse and distribution type low paid jobs for many.
Click to expand...

Yes, but the UK has already been fined by the EU and asked to repay the tariffs on Chinese goods that they didn’t collect. It doesn’t help the EU‘s case when members allow goods through without collecting the right tariffs.

The Chinese are building a land route through to Europe. There may be a way of applying pressure on them to allow that to work. Who knows? But China is nearly a quarter of the world population as opposed to 500 million in the EU. Maybe the EU and USA can apply pressure, but how do you see the UKs chances as a distressed trading partner with 65 million population?

I think we will have no say. They have already cancelled meetings because of us sending a ship. We have do as they say.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,519
I see it’s any excuse to be an idiot season

'Pro-Brexit' sabotage devices left on tracks
 
Reactions: martcov

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,520
What does everyone reckon then, are TM and Corbyn going to agree a deal?

Im not to sure they will
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,521
SkyBlueDom26 said:
What does everyone reckon then, are TM and Corbyn going to agree a deal?

Im not to sure they will
Click to expand...

No. 3 years of Tory failure will no doubt be blamed on labour though.
 
Reactions: Ian1779, clint van damme and martcov

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,522
skybluetony176 said:
No. 3 years of Tory failure will no doubt be blamed on labour though.
Click to expand...
It is likely though that may will give in to JC
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,523
SkyBlueDom26 said:
It is likely though that may will give in to JC
Click to expand...

To be fair she promptly dropped large parts of her own manifesto five minutes after being elected and adopted large parts of Labours manifesto so anything is possible. Can’t see it happening on this issue though.
 
Reactions: SkyBlueDom26

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,524
skybluetony176 said:
To be fair she promptly dropped large parts of her own manifesto five minutes after being elected and adopted large parts of Labours manifesto so anything is possible. Can’t see it happening on this issue though.
Click to expand...
She has wrote a letter to her party saying the only way to get a deal through is with their support! She's desperate
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,525
Whoever thought we'd get to a stage where May would be announcing in the Commons that there were a number of areas where she agreed with Corbyn!
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,526
Boris has walked out of PMQ’s apparently. I wonder if he’ll do the country a favour and keep walking?
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete, martcov and clint van damme

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,527
skybluetony176 said:
Boris has walked out of PMQ’s apparently. I wonder if he’ll do the country a favour and keep walking?
Click to expand...
An enigma Boris Johnson. Something Trump-like about him.
Struggle to see why he's popular and with whom but he seems to be.
Nobody really knows what he stands for as he does like a U-turn.
Like trump is he eccentric or bordering on some sort of psychological disorder? Does he play the clown just for effect?
 
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,528
martcov said:
Yes, but the UK has already been fined by the EU and asked to repay the tariffs on Chinese goods that they didn’t collect. It doesn’t help the EU‘s case when members allow goods through without collecting the right tariffs.

The Chinese are building a land route through to Europe. There may be a way of applying pressure on them to allow that to work. Who knows? But China is nearly a quarter of the world population as opposed to 500 million in the EU. Maybe the EU and USA can apply pressure, but how do you see the UKs chances as a distressed trading partner with 65 million population?

I think we will have no say. They have already cancelled meetings because of us sending a ship. We have do as they say.
Click to expand...
Nearer 1/7th actually but yes still big numbers. Although I might add current figures suggest the UK population density is 704 per Sq Mile against China's 375 per Sq mile !!
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,529
tisza said:
An enigma Boris Johnson. Something Trump-like about him.
Struggle to see why he's popular and with whom but he seems to be.
Nobody really knows what he stands for as he does like a U-turn.
Like trump is he eccentric or bordering on some sort of psychological disorder? Does he play the clown just for effect?
Click to expand...

Yes, he plays the clown because people say, ‚oh that’s just Boris‘. Makes him sort of a likeable rogue. In reality he is a ruthless ambitious person who would do anything and say anything to be PM. Born in New York, if that means anything. He is praised by that other great actor, Rees-Mogg who plays the country lord and speaks with a charming posh accent, which disguises his thorough ruthless nastiness. A nasty pair of chancers who would love May to crash to get to power. In relation, the Old Bennite, Jeremy Corbyn seems totally harmless.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,530
Ashdown said:
Nearer 1/7th actually but yes still big numbers. Although I might add current figures suggest the UK population density is 704 per Sq Mile against China's 375 per Sq mile !!
Click to expand...

Are you saying that we would have a chance of getting a great deal out of China on our own?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,531
SkyBlueDom26 said:
It is likely though that may will give in to JC
Click to expand...

Considering that the only reasons we had a referendum was to stop the Tory party arguing amongst itself, and to stop UKIP taking it’s support, it hasn’t gone too well has it?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,532
tisza said:
An enigma Boris Johnson. Something Trump-like about him.
Struggle to see why he's popular and with whom but he seems to be.
Nobody really knows what he stands for as he does like a U-turn.
Like trump is he eccentric or bordering on some sort of psychological disorder? Does he play the clown just for effect?
Click to expand...

Seems the EU don’t think much of him either:

„We cannot risk giving the keys of the EU's future to a Boris Johnson, or a Michael Gove, the architects of this Brexit disaster'


The European Parliament's Brexit co-ordinator Guy Verhofstadt argues against granting a long Brexit extension
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,533
martcov said:
The EU aren’t renegotiating her deal again anyway.
Click to expand...
There's no reason why they should since May's hands have now been tied by parliament and she is no longer in a position to negotiate.
 
Reactions: Westendlad

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,534
clint van damme said:
Fucking idiot! It's a trap!
Click to expand...

May isn’t smart enough to set a trap. I despise the woman, she’s weak, utterly incompetent and out of her depth plus she’s a liar. She will be remembered as the PM who betrayed the biggest vote in our history and allowed this country to be humiliated by idiots like Tusk and Juncker.

Her woefully weak leadership has created massive splits in her party and now to cap it all she turns to Comrade Corbyn for talks which will legitimise and give credence to him and his vile politics.

Unless one of the 27 refuses an extension and there’s virtually no chance of that, this Brexit battle is lost.

I now hope that Remainers go ahead and revoke Article 50 or have their loaded-question-Remain-win ‘peoples vote’ and then we can start it all again in a couple of years when we have a Parliament that reflects the views of the electorate and a leader who wants to leave and knows how to negotiate.
 
Reactions: Westendlad and westcountry_skyblue

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,535
SIR ERNIE said:
May isn’t smart enough to set a trap. I despise the woman, she’s weak, utterly incompetent and out of her depth plus she’s a liar. She will be remembered as the PM who betrayed the biggest vote in our history and allowed this country to be humiliated by idiots like Tusk and Juncker.

Her woefully weak leadership has created massive splits in her party and now to cap it all she turns to Comrade Corbyn for talks which will legitimise and give credence to him and his vile politics.

Unless one of the 27 refuses an extension and there’s virtually no chance of that, this Brexit battle is lost.

I now hope that Remainers go ahead and revoke Article 50 or have their loaded-question-Remain-win ‘peoples vote’ and then we can start it all again in a couple of years when we have a Parliament that reflects the views of the electorate and a leader who wants to leave and knows how to negotiate.
Click to expand...

If that’s true then what does that say about the Brexiteers within parliament? None of them have stepped up or put themselves or solutions forward. In fact they came across as even more incompetent than May.

Who’d be your choice of PM in a couple of years then?
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,536
SIR ERNIE said:
She will be remembered as the PM who betrayed the biggest vote in our history and allowed this country to be humiliated by idiots like Tusk and Juncker.
Click to expand...

The irony here is that Tusk and Junker have behaved exactly as the leave campaign argued as a reason to vote leave. On that basis it’s self humiliation. The idiots are those that campaigned for leave on that argument as clearly they didn’t believe their own arguments. It’s time these idiots and those gullible enough to believe them take an opportunity for self reflection. They’ve got exactly what they campaigned and voted for and are now playing the victim.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 3, 2019
  • #34,537
SIR ERNIE said:
Her woefully weak leadership has created massive splits in her party
Click to expand...

The split was already there. That’s how we ended up having the referendum in the first place. It was supposed to settle the split, the reality is it’s just got wider.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 4, 2019
  • #34,538
skybluetony176 said:
The split was already there. That’s how we ended up having the referendum in the first place. It was supposed to settle the split, the reality is it’s just got wider.
Click to expand...
The split has been there for 45 years or more. It isn't new.
 
Reactions: SIR ERNIE

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 4, 2019
  • #34,539
skybluetony176 said:
The irony here is that Tusk and Junker have behaved exactly as the leave campaign argued as a reason to vote leave. On that basis it’s self humiliation. The idiots are those that campaigned for leave on that argument as clearly they didn’t believe their own arguments. It’s time these idiots and those gullible enough to believe them take an opportunity for self reflection. They’ve got exactly what they campaigned and voted for and are now playing the victim.
Click to expand...

Haha you really do tie yourself in knots with your puerile attempts at point scoring don’t you.
 
Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
Reactions: Grendel

Nick

Administrator
  • Apr 4, 2019
  • #34,540
Just wanted to announce I've cut up my IKEA family card. Fuck them. I'm done with their hot dogs and meatballs too.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 4, 2019
  • #34,541
SIR ERNIE said:
May isn’t smart enough to set a trap. I despise the woman, she’s weak, utterly incompetent and out of her depth plus she’s a liar. She will be remembered as the PM who betrayed the biggest vote in our history and allowed this country to be humiliated by idiots like Tusk and Juncker.

Her woefully weak leadership has created massive splits in her party and now to cap it all she turns to Comrade Corbyn for talks which will legitimise and give credence to him and his vile politics.

Unless one of the 27 refuses an extension and there’s virtually no chance of that, this Brexit battle is lost.

I now hope that Remainers go ahead and revoke Article 50 or have their loaded-question-Remain-win ‘peoples vote’ and then we can start it all again in a couple of years when we have a Parliament that reflects the views of the electorate and a leader who wants to leave and knows how to negotiate.
Click to expand...

It would have helped if leave wasn’t based on false promises. Basically we can have our cake and eat it.

A downright lie.

Then comes the lack of a definition of what form of leave we would take.

The government leaflet said that in the event of leaving they would negotiate the best alternative. May put an end to that by defining her red lines and didn’t get consent from parliament or even her own party for doing so.

Add to that you have triggering article 50 without having any plan passed by parliament.

What the leave proponents have done to this country is treachery. The lies, the blatant misleading of people not usually interested in politics or informed on the subject of the referendum, will go down on history as a major act of treason for personal political or financial gain.

I hope you are right and we stay in the EU, and make the people who did this to the UK answerable for their acts.
 
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 4, 2019
  • #34,542
martcov said:
Are you saying that we would have a chance of getting a great deal out of China on our own?
Click to expand...
As well you know , I was referring to our burgeoning population being very worrying
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 4, 2019
  • #34,543
Ashdown said:
As well you know , I was referring to our burgeoning population being very worrying
Click to expand...

Yes, but that wasn’t the question.
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 4, 2019
  • #34,544
martcov said:
Considering that the only reasons we had a referendum was to stop the Tory party arguing amongst itself, and to stop UKIP taking it’s support, it hasn’t gone too well has it?
Click to expand...
Any party will have a say in the next general elections, even UKIP could help win a majority as lots of people are going to not vote for the main parties
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Apr 4, 2019
  • #34,545
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Any party will have a say in the next general elections, even UKIP could help win a majority as lots of people are going to not vote for the main parties
Click to expand...

Times like this it would be better with proportional representation.
 
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