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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (16 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,881
Ashdown said:
I reckon Martobsessed has been signing it constantly for 3 days now.
Click to expand...

Or back in reality there are millions of people who genuinely believe that the country is going down a path in which it is going to suffer badly.
 
Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
Reactions: Deleted member 5849 and martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,882
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
16 million people got off their arse and went to the polling station to vote remain. Only 5 million have signed a petition online which requires a couple of clicks. I dare say many of those are also not genuine voters, and I'm sure many others have voted more online here more than once.

There is absolutely zero indication that the public have changed their mind. This is just sadly more desperation.
Click to expand...

Opinion polls. Massive march. Petition. In discussion in parliament. And you haven’t noticed a change in mood?

If it easy to rig the petition, why haven’t leave, who have proven experience in manipulating the internet, managed to get their petition over 0,5m?
 
Reactions: shmmeee and Grappa
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martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,883
Ashdown said:
I reckon Martobsessed has been signing it constantly for 3 days now.
Click to expand...

There are controls. No major cheating has been picked up. Especially from abroad. Why don’t you sign the no deal petition multiple times to balance your theory?
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,884
Sick Boy said:
All of those posts about how easy Brexit would be and how the UK held the upper hand in negotiations seem to have disappeared
Click to expand...

Well it's definitely been made harder by being undermined by remainers in fairness.

It may not be the biggest reason, or the main reason. Surely you cannot deny it's had a negative impact though?
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,885
martcov said:
Opinion polls. Massive march. Petition. In discussion in parliament. And you haven’t noticed a change in mood?

If it easy to rig the petition, why haven’t leave, who have proven experience in manipulating the internet, managed to get their petition over 0,5m?
Click to expand...

God, it's so desperate.
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,886
Ashdown said:
I reckon Martobsessed has been signing it constantly for 3 days now.
Click to expand...

I saw some bird on Twitter had admitted to signing it 10 times.

Some people are so in the woods they cannot see how desperate it looks.

I totally get some are unhappy with the result and in their eyes want what is best for the country, but some of this straw clutching really needs to stop now. It's beyond embarrassing.
 
A

Ashdown

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,887
martcov said:
Opinion polls. Massive march. Petition. In discussion in parliament. And you haven’t noticed a change in mood?

If it easy to rig the petition, why haven’t leave, who have proven experience in manipulating the internet, managed to get their petition over 0,5m?
Click to expand...
There isn't a change in mood, it's just that the Remainers have become more vocal and active........ because they can't abide the vote result. Just supposing it's turned over, what happens to the issues that pushed people towards Brexit.....swept under the carpet again as usual ?!
 
Reactions: westcountry_skyblue and SkyBlueDom26

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,888
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Well it's definitely been made harder by being undermined by remainers in fairness.

It may not be the biggest reason, or the main reason. Surely you cannot deny it's had a negative impact though?
Click to expand...

As usual, it’s the fault of someone else, isn’t it? Why can’t the leavers take responsibility for their actions and inability to deliver?

Or perhaps even admit that the promises made during the referendum were undeliverable?

Unless you’re a fan of Uri Geller and think it’s some kind of bizarre collective plot?
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849 and Grappa
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,889
Ashdown said:
There isn't a change in mood, it's just that the Remainers have become more vocal and active........ because they can't abide the vote result. Just supposing it's turned over, what happens to the issues that pushed people towards Brexit.....swept under the carpet again as usual ?!
Click to expand...

I‘d hardly call Brexit swept under the carpet.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,890
Sick Boy said:
All of those posts about how easy Brexit would be and how the UK held the upper hand in negotiations seem to have disappeared
Click to expand...

Well we saw how easy it could have been when the EU started to waiver when a hard Brexit looked a reality. It could have been very easy if the government wanted to honour the commitment rather than shadow box
 
Reactions: Ashdown
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,891
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I saw some bird on Twitter had admitted to signing it 10 times.

Some people are so in the woods they cannot see how desperate it looks.

I totally get some are unhappy with the result and in their eyes want what is best for the country, but some of this straw clutching really needs to stop now. It's beyond embarrassing.
Click to expand...

Sign the no deal petition 10 times to balance it out. Lots are claiming that. All leavers funnily enough. There are checks and apparently if they find fraud they delete it. But, I bet some get away with it by creating new addresses. Still, both petitions are equally vulnerable. Why aren’t the leave hackers boosting their petition for no deal if it is so easy? Make that 5,5 million too.
 
Reactions: Grappa
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,892
Grendel said:
Well we saw how easy it could have been when the EU started to waiver when a hard Brexit looked a reality. It could have been very easy if the government wanted to honour the commitment rather than shadow box
Click to expand...

In what meaningful way have the EU waivered? How come we don’t hold all the cards as we were told? What happened to the cards? How come they are now dictating? Do you think trade deal negotiations with the EU and others will go better when we are out? I don’t. We will be in an even weaker position. German industry confidence is going up again as they think they can withstand a hard Brexit now. Jus saw that on the news.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and Grappa

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,893
Letwin vote wins.looks like indicative votes on Wednesday
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,894
Sky Blue Pete said:
Letwin vote wins.looks like indicative votes on Wednesday
Click to expand...

So basically what should have happened in the first place is finally happening.
 
Reactions: bezzer, martcov and Ian1779

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,895
I've lost track of this a bit, to be honest I got sick to death of it and tuned out. Can someone catch me up on what is happening tonight.

There's a possible extension to 22 May if the PM gets her deal through this week but she's now said she's not putting it to another vote so presumably that's ruled out. How could she even put it to a vote after Bercow said they couldn't vote a third time on the same thing?

If its not Mays deal we have to go back by 12 April with an alternative. Is that about right?

What does MPs voting to take control actually mean? May has already said she's going to ignore them so it all seems a pointless waste of time.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,896
What's happening now?
 

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,897
Nick said:
What's happening now?
Click to expand...

More tantrums, basically.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,898
Make them have a double or quits scrap. Nonces
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 25, 2019
  • #33,899
Nick said:
Make them have a double or quits scrap. Nonces
Click to expand...
Rock Paper Scissors
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,900
chiefdave said:
I've lost track of this a bit, to be honest I got sick to death of it and tuned out. Can someone catch me up on what is happening tonight.

There's a possible extension to 22 May if the PM gets her deal through this week but she's now said she's not putting it to another vote so presumably that's ruled out. How could she even put it to a vote after Bercow said they couldn't vote a third time on the same thing?

If its not Mays deal we have to go back by 12 April with an alternative. Is that about right?

What does MPs voting to take control actually mean? May has already said she's going to ignore them so it all seems a pointless waste of time.
Click to expand...
He said, she said.
His fault, her fault.
Everyone's a moron.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,901
Good news?

MPs back votes on Brexit alternatives

And here is the bad that could happen as I mentioned

UK urged to guarantee EU citizens' benefits
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,902
chiefdave said:
If its not Mays deal we have to go back by 12 April with an alternative. Is that about right?
Click to expand...

My understanding is it's May's deal or no deal since the EU is unwilling to negotiate any alternative.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,903
dutchman said:
My understanding is it's May's deal or no deal since the EU is unwilling to negotiate any alternative.
Click to expand...
I can't see it happening. Nobody who is in a position to decide wants either.

The EU won't move because they hold all the cards now. No deal is off the table although it could still happen. But whilst it is off the table the EU can say what they want and backtrack making it look for the benefit of others than us if needed.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,904
dutchman said:
My understanding is it's May's deal or no deal since the EU is unwilling to negotiate any alternative.
Click to expand...

The EU doesn’t have to negotiate any alternative. They have spent 2 years negotiating and have got a withdrawal agreement agreed by the 27 remaining EU countries and by the UK.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,905
Astute said:
I can't see it happening. Nobody who is in a position to decide wants either.

The EU won't move because they hold all the cards now. No deal is off the table although it could still happen. But whilst it is off the table the EU can say what they want and backtrack making it look for the benefit of others than us if needed.
Click to expand...

No deal would put us in the weakest negotiating position possible when it comes to trade deals. We would be a distressed trading partner and have to take any old crap to avoid being stuck in WTO rules. No responsible government would put us in that position.

If the EU wanted to punish a country by expelling them, the worse they could do is to throw them out with „no deal“. To use no deal, a punishment, as a bargaining tool is insane.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,906
Nick said:
What's happening now?
Click to expand...

Sovereign parliament takes control from weakening government. Sovereignty innit.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,907
martcov said:
The EU doesn’t have to negotiate any alternative. They have spent 2 years negotiating and have got a withdrawal agreement agreed by the 27 remaining EU countries and by the UK.
Click to expand...
The EU hasn't negotiated. They have told us what they will allow us. No proper negotiations have taken place.

When it looked like a no deal could happen they said nothing would change for at least a year to allow the other 27 countries to adapt. This also wasn't a negotiation.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,908
Astute said:
The EU hasn't negotiated. They have told us what they will allow us. No proper negotiations have taken place.

When it looked like a no deal could happen they said nothing would change for at least a year to allow the other 27 countries to adapt. This also wasn't a negotiation.
Click to expand...

There are different time limits in different areas. There is not a blanket one year. They have negotiated. The EU is a rule based organisation. We know that, we helped write the rules. Those are their red lines. They offered us deals at the beginning. May turned them down and set her red lines. The WA fits in with May’s red lines and EU rules. May won’t move on her red lines, and the ERG and DUP won’t move on theirs. So we have an impasse. Now parliament has voted itself more power and their will be indicative votes on the agenda. Other ideas will be voted on which may break the impasse. At some point there will be a people’s vote on the agenda. A trade off: back a deal in exchange for a PV to ratify the deal, or scrap Brexit. Tom Watson has already said he will back it and he was elected as deputy leader by party members.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,909
Astute said:
The EU hasn't negotiated. They have told us what they will allow us. No proper negotiations have taken place.

When it looked like a no deal could happen they said nothing would change for at least a year to allow the other 27 countries to adapt. This also wasn't a negotiation.
Click to expand...

The EU has said that in a no deal there will not be a transition period, but there would be some leeway, for example for financial services, to avoid problems, but that is not to be confused with the transition period and would be much more limited.

The UK would have to negotiate a temporary transition for a couple of months to facilitate the change to WTO conditions.

I don’t know where you get a no change situation with no deal. They made the point strongly that there won’t be the transition period as with a deal.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,910
I’m pretty worried if I’m honest. Can see no deal this Friday and we’ll be ok but it will be chaos for a while
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,911
A couple of things need discussing.
1. For a House some people believe wants to solidly remain yesterday's vote was far too close.
2. More leave options put up by Parliament on Wednesday greater or lesser chance that one will find a majority in the house.
3. Putting up a range of leave measures which have not been discussed with EU or really properly researched by Parliament is still a strange way to go. Smacks of desperation rather than responsible govt.
4. If you try and end up with a single leave option picked by Parliament vs. Remain on a referendum still falls short of what the electoral commission could allow as ignores all other leave possibilities ( would be boycotted by hard leavers)
5.govt still not bound by outcome even though in a weak position.
6.parliament still voted yesterday not to extend deadlines. Still hoping they can get a deal by April 11 but also aware if a leave deal can be agreed by then then they can still try and avoid a 2nd referendum. Let's not believe Labour will support a 2nd referendum if Corbyn's leave deal is the one selected.
 
Reactions: Astute and Grendel

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,912
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
God, it's so desperate.
Click to expand...

Triangulation. It’s not one data point suggesting Remain is the will of the people, it’s all of them.

Sorry, you and the hedge funds will have to accept you’re pushing through damage to the country from a minority position.

Still, I assume youve got funds betting on that like the other traitors, sorry Brexiters. You wouldn’t have been conned into fucking yourself over to enrich a few public schoolboys would you?

Astute said:
The EU hasn't negotiated. They have told us what they will allow us. No proper negotiations have taken place.

When it looked like a no deal could happen they said nothing would change for at least a year to allow the other 27 countries to adapt. This also wasn't a negotiation.
Click to expand...

It’s almost like negotiating from a position of weakness doesn’t get you good deals. Whodathunk?
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,913
Sky Blue Pete said:
I’m pretty worried if I’m honest. Can see no deal this Friday and we’ll be ok but it will be chaos for a while
Click to expand...

We won’t be ok as regards getting favourable trade deals. We will survive, but be weakened. Great. Brexit is really not in the UKs interests.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,914
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Well it's definitely been made harder by being undermined by remainers in fairness.

It may not be the biggest reason, or the main reason. Surely you cannot deny it's had a negative impact though?
Click to expand...

The ERG and DUP have voted against the government. They are not Remoaners. How have the remainers done anything? May drew the redlines. The ERG and DUP drew theirs. The Remoaners were not listened to from the word go. It is a Tory + Leave clusterf**k. Enjoy.
 
Reactions: skybluetony176

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 26, 2019
  • #33,915
Sky Blue Pete said:
I’m pretty worried if I’m honest. Can see no deal this Friday and we’ll be ok but it will be chaos for a while
Click to expand...

We won't be leaving this Friday now anyway. At the moment it's either mid April or towards the end of May.
 
Reactions: martcov
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