Astute
Well-Known Member
More like you refuse to consider anything except for what you want.
Another referendum .
Labour and Corbyn to take over from the Tories.
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
Another referendum .
Labour and Corbyn to take over from the Tories.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well I’m sure that’s a reason many people have “resigned” from despot parties that are headed by a deeply unpleasant person across the globe.
CJ_covblaze
Well-Known Member
The thing I'd like to know is will this thread pass half a million views before the 29th March?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Actually, I said from the beginning that a second referendum will be the outcome of this Parliamentary deadlock. This is starting to become a consensus with William Hague coming out and stating he believes this happen too. No deal looks like it will pass, no deal is looking like it will be blocked and Theresa May has refused to extend Article 50 nor have another general election. What else can be done?
My support for a referendum is immaterial here. I’ve looked at what I perceive to be a likely outcome and shared my opinion on that.
I’m a Labour member and voter, of course I want a Labour government. I don’t really care who is leader. That’s pretty damn obvious. Theresa May staying on as PM in this context is actually an unprecedented and in usual circumstances a GE would’ve been called.
I appreciate it must be difficult hearing the allegations against your MP who you seem to be fond of. However, if we’re honest here, he left the party over the investigation into his alleged behaviour. I don’t know if he’s guilty and I sincerely hope he’s not. You saying your MP left/pushed out by a Corbyn purge is simply not true. My political leavings have no impact on that.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
You really need to look up the words ‘Stalinist’ and ‘despot’ in the Oxford dictionary.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
May could once be described as ‘resolute’ in character. Now, she’s just damn right subborn and this is going to cost her dearly.
Irony is a bastard and May’s commitment to her ‘red lines’ is probably going to cost her delivering Brexit.
And 4. Reich, Roman Empire, EUSSR, slobbering and dribbling.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
With respect you have no idea if the revulsion people felt towards Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott when they were siding with sworn enemies of this country.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Mr Corbyns sibling recently talked about the Eu and Germany as being the 4th Reich did he not?
No idea. I think most Germans just roll their eyes when people say that. The sheer lack of knowledge or pure stupidity that that implies.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Sure thing, just a measly 40% of the electorate voted for the party those three represent.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Really? Will Hutton and many EU supporters in the uk think it as well
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Of course as ignorant children like you follow the Pied Piper
Plenty of stupid people around.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Every post from you was why you think we should have another referendum. It wasn't that you think we would have one.
Your posts leave everyone without any doubt what you want. And you don't care what you say against anyone if they don't agree with you. You ignore all evidence and thoughts against what you want.
Astute
Well-Known Member
We know. But at least we still let you have a say.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I’m the ignorant one, yet you didn’t know that Parliamentary legislation became law after it was passed. With respect, that’s something 16-17 year old ‘children’ get taught in week one of a Government & Politics A-Level, possibly even younger if they studied it at GCSE.
Ignorance is not accepting people believe in different things to yourself.
I haven’t attacked anyone for holding different views to me, whether they support Brexit or not, or if they support another political party. We all have our reasons for holding our political views.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Good, I’m glad my arguments are clear!
I do want a second referendum, and I want a Labour government.
In my first contribution to this thread (12th Dec) I said ‘this is going to have to be settled at the ballot box again’ and ‘it’s doubtful that any agreement will be passed in Parliament’. That is stating what I think will happen and why I think a second ref will happen.
Astute
Well-Known Member
But you don't care about anyone or anything else. I would love to have a debate with you but it is impossible.
Staying in the EU would be to my benefit. The wife has found some properties she likes in France. Good chance we will buy them. But I still couldn't bring myself to rant and rave about what I need like yourself.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Parliamentary legislation cannot become law if it doesn’t meet EU legislation unless we elect to leave the EU which is the only reason I bought the death penalty argument forward
I do wonder if you are a parody account
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
If that was true then every country in the EU would have identical laws and that simply isn’t the case.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
It’s the profits first plan. Forget sovereignty, being in charge of our own destiny etc etc... it’s all about the money....
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
P&O dropping U.K. flags in favour of Cypriot flags, Sony moving their European HQ to Holland and Brexit backer Mr Dyson not backing the U.K. in his latest round of moving his operation to Asia. He can’t have much left in the U.K. now, might have to start looking for a new supplier for my next vacuum cleaner.
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
For those at the top of the pyramid absolutely
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Dyson 1bn profit ffs
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
You’re fundamentally wrong here. I’m going to teach you how to piss in a pot. This is the process of how laws are made in the UK:
Bills are introduced, there’s 3 readings before it’s put to a vote. If there’s a majority in the Commons, it goes to the Lords and if both houses approve, it’s sent to the current monarch for Royal Assent. Then, that bill becomes an Act of Parliament and becomes a law. In this process, where does the EU step in?
The EU doesn’t have a mechanism where it can block legislation from a member state if it breaks EU law. A current example of this is Hungary’s ‘Soros Law’ which bans people/organisations helping asylum seekers. They passed that in defiance of the EU, and the EU has responded by invoking Article 7. The process of which the EU uses to sanction member states who ‘persistently’ break the EU’s values. It’s not clear what actually happens here because this is an unprecedented situation — but it doesn’t seem like they would be ‘kicked out’ of the EU, rather, they’ll have some rights stripped off them, theoretically.
So, your example of the death penalty, the British Parliament could pass that legislation and it would become law. The EU could not stop that process, they can ‘condemn’ the legislation, but that’s it. Then, once it becomes law they would take action to sanction the UK. Outlawing the death penalty is a requirement to join the EU, but there’s no mechanism to physically block a move to bring it back once a state has joined the EU. The claim that British legislation needs EU approval is not true and the example of Hungary demonstrates this clearly.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
Eu legislation supersedes a member countries laws and their regulations are binding so the uk cannot enforce legislation that breaches EU legislation
You are talking tripe. Go and rewrite your essay - you actually are pretty clueless on everything
I know how legislation works - I hardly need a lesson from someone who thinks Eu legislation is not binding
Christ
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Cognitive dissonance at its finest.
I didn’t say EU law and legislation was not legally binding. You’ve moved the goal posts. The debate isn’t whether or not the EU’s laws are binding, the question is can the UK make it’s own laws that contradict the EU’s. The answer to that is yes, it can.
You made a false claim that the UK can’t pass laws that contradict EU laws. This isn’t true and I used the example of Hungary who have passed legislation that violates human rights and contradict the core values of the EU. The EU could not stop the Hungarian Government passing that legislation.
The core of the UK’s constitution is the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty. An Act of Parliament supersedes the executive and judiciary. Look at how MPs are looking to hijack the Brexit process from the Government (exec). The relationship between the EU and the UK is that Parliament subcontracts it’s sovereignty to the EU. Parliament ratified EU treaties and so on and has the power to repeal those treaties. The UK didn’t join the ERM, schengen area nor the eurozone.
Since the EU has no mechanism to physically block or repeal a member states’ legislation, EU law is only supreme in theory. In practice, however, the EU cannot stop a National Parliament from passing legislation that contradicts its core values. Again, Hungary has already done this. The UK Parliament could pass numerous laws that violate EU law, and all the EU could do is sanction us. Evidently, this would be incompatible with EU membership, and so we’d probably be expelled from the EU in this circumstance. But, the question here is this: is Parliamentary sovereignty in tact? Yes, it is because the EU, as of 2019, does not have a mechanism to overrule a national parliaments’ legislation.
Here’s another example related to the UK:
The Representation of the People Act 1983 prohibits prisoners from voting. This was bought to the European Court of Human Rights in 2001, in 2005, they ruled that this violates the European Convention on Human Rights as it departs from the universal suffrage (in the EU’s eyes). What happened? The UK more or less ignored it and this Act of Parliament remains active to this date despite it contradicting EU convention.
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Astute
Well-Known Member
That is a very broad statement.
The EU call them rules and regulations most of the time. We have to follow most rules and regulations. The rules and regulations then get passed as law.
And yes these rules and regulations can be broke. But the EU isn't happy when they are. Yet the EU also breaks these same rules and regulations. And there is nothing we can do when the EU breaks their own rules and regulations as they regulate them and decide whatever punishment is dished out.
Most of these rules and regulations are supposed to be so no nation has an unfair advantage on the others. None of these can be broke in any way. You risk expulsion from the EU if you do so. Hungary got warned of so recently.
What you have to realise is that the EU has made these rules and regulations. And they decide which ones to uphold. Just like fining countries in the EU for emissions over the limits they have set. But a lot of these emissions are caused by diesel engines that were cheating tests that they knew about for years that they did nothing about. If they had kept these companies to the rules set there would be much less of a problem and then they couldn't fine those countries involved.
Yes covering old ground you will say. But it shows that they push home rules and regulations when they want and ignore them when they want.
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
The same EU that the UK has been part of for decades and helped shape into what it is today?
Astute
Well-Known Member
The EU started about 25 years ago. Helped shape? A bunch of nobodies decide what the rules are going to be and we nod our heads. When we go against them we get ignored.
But I suppose it sounds good.
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
Apart from the opt outs rebates, own currency, not having to contribute to Eurozone bailouts etc?
Despite you trying to claim the UK is a weak and passive head nodding country, it simply isn’t true.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
...until it needs a trade deal...
