The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

Astute · Jan 20, 2019

clint van damme said:
I don't know the exact figures so you may be right but in the long term if we end share dividends to foreign investors in utilities and PFI payments won't it be better for the public purse?
I think the problem will be the initial cost of renationalising and buying out PFI contracts.

Long term yes. But could easily be a shirt term disaster. We already can't afford to pay for what is needed for the poor and unfortunate. The system needs a shakeup from top to bottom.

Our biggest problem is that we have had a Tory government or a Labour government that Bliar based on the Tories for a lot if years now. Everything is in favour of the rich and against the poor. We don't need fancy dreams. We need a Labour government to come in and right the wrongs from the last few decades. The last Labour government must be as far back as the 70's without Bliar or Brown in place.

martcov · Jan 20, 2019

eastwoodsdustman said:
This is exactly what the EU want. Keep voting until it goes the way they want. Similar thing happened with Ireland didn’t it?

They adjusted it and the people accepted it. It is called democracy.

Sick Boy · Jan 20, 2019

Grendel said:
Was Fox charged with anything?

Nice deflection haha

martcov · Jan 20, 2019

SIR ERNIE said:
The British won’t allow it to happen.

Remainers may well succeed in thwarting Brexit this time round perhaps via a loaded question second vote, but if they do it will only strengthen the resolve to leave. Might take a few years but we’ll be out, that’s for certain.

No way. The trend is to have a second vote and remain. What makes you think the British won’t vote differently now that they see what is happening? The EU is very popular in Ireland.

Grendel · Jan 20, 2019

Sick Boy said:
Nice deflection haha

Well you constantly make an accusation of misconduct - was he charged with misconduct - after all as you say with Mr Bercow you are innocent until proven guilty aren’t you?

Grendel · Jan 20, 2019

martcov said:
They adjusted it and the people accepted it. It is called democracy.

Is that what happened in France and Netherlands when they rejected a treaty and the will of the people was ignored?

martcov · Jan 20, 2019

Grendel said:
Well you constantly make an accusation of misconduct - was he charged with misconduct - after all as you say with Mr Bercow you are innocent until proven guilty aren’t you?

Good old Bercow is thinking of staying on now that the government have been slagging him off. He was going to retire

Sick Boy · Jan 20, 2019

Grendel said:
Well you constantly make an accusation of misconduct - was he charged with misconduct - after all as you say with Mr Bercow you are innocent until proven guilty aren’t you?

He was forced to resign from the government in disgrace, I’m not surprised you’re trying to deflect away from him, you probably see him as honourable.

Grendel · Jan 20, 2019

martcov said:
No way. The trend is to have a second vote and remain. What makes you think the British won’t vote differently now that they see what is happening? The EU is very popular in Ireland.

Be interesting to see how that one plays out in the EU elections in the UK

Grendel · Jan 20, 2019

Sick Boy said:
He was forced to resign from the government in disgrace, I’m not surprised you’re trying to deflect away from him, you probably see him as honourable.

Was he convicted of anything?

Grendel · Jan 20, 2019

martcov said:
Good old Bercow is thinking of staying on now that the government have been slagging him off. He was going to retire

Bercow is a greedy self indulgent slime ball revoked by the vast majority in both sides.

A misogynist creep and a bully. Of course you like him. He is the epitome of the values the EU stand for.

Sick Boy · Jan 20, 2019

Grendel said:
Was he convicted of anything?

I’ve never said he was convicted of anything.

Sick Boy · Jan 20, 2019

Grendel said:
Bercow is a greedy self indulgent slime ball revoked by the vast majority in both sides.

A misogynist creep and a bully. Of course you like him. He is the epitome of the values the EU stand for.

Yes because the likes of Nigel Farage, Aaron Banks and Tommy Robinson believe in equality and are forward thinking.

Christ.

clint van damme · Jan 20, 2019

Astute said:
Long term yes. But could easily be a shirt term disaster. We already can't afford to pay for what is needed for the poor and unfortunate. The system needs a shakeup from top to bottom.

Our biggest problem is that we have had a Tory government or a Labour government that Bliar based on the Tories for a lot if years now. Everything is in favour of the rich and against the poor. We don't need fancy dreams. We need a Labour government to come in and right the wrongs from the last few decades. The last Labour government must be as far back as the 70's without Bliar or Brown in place.

I don't agree with nationalisation for nationalisations sake.
Industries should only be renationalised where it's in the interest of the public.
Taking failing services back into public hands makes sense to me rather than some huge renationalisation program based on ideology rather than practicality.

For example, just prior to selling off the water there was a plan to create a strategic water grid, (i believe it is being discussed again). It would have allowed water to be transferred around the country to areas of drought. Instead thatcher sold it off and we now have chronic lack of investment and billions being paid out to foreign investors in the form of dividends when it should be being reinvested for the benefit of the British public.

skybluetony176 · Jan 20, 2019

Grendel said:
A misogynist creep and a bully.

Was he convicted of anything? Standard defence isn’t it?

Grendel · Jan 20, 2019

Sick Boy said:
Yes because the likes of Nigel Farage, Aaron Banks and Tommy Robinson believe in equality and are forward thinking.

Christ.

They are not it may have escaped your notice - the speaker of the house

martcov · Jan 20, 2019

Grendel said:
Is that what happened in France and Netherlands when they rejected a treaty and the will of the people was ignored?

No. The original contract which was more of a constitution was amended. There was no majority for a second referendum to be held as it was considered inappropriate for such complicated questions and there was no desire to make referenda a form of government in the Netherlands. Wise choice.

martcov · Jan 20, 2019

Grendel said:
Bercow is a greedy self indulgent slime ball revoked by the vast majority in both sides.

A misogynist creep and a bully. Of course you like him. He is the epitome of the values the EU stand for.

Has he been convicted of anything?

Sick Boy · Jan 20, 2019

Grendel said:
They are not it may have escaped your notice - the speaker of the house

It’s more in relation to your ‘epitome of the EU’ comment, which was ridiculous.

Astute · Jan 20, 2019

Here we go again.

I suppose most will remember that I was saying that I could see a Brexit party being firmed and maybe Farage back if we don't leave the EU. Well here you are. Looks like it is happening. Can't see us leaving... especially by the end of March. If there is another GE there will be another political party. The Brexit party. And the leader will be.....

Nigel Farage to lead new pro-Brexit party if EU departure delayed

So how many that have been hoping for another GE are now still hoping for another GE?

So is YouGov biased and Labour are closer to the Tories than they say? But could we end up with Brexit party coming second...... or even 1st as millions of people are pissed off that parliament has gone against their wishes? Most of England voted leave. Most of the seats are in England. May got 42% of the vote when she called a GE. But before then the winning vote has been less than 37% since 2001.

Could the Brexit party get 37%? Instead of having an inept Corbyn could we have a total joker Farage as PM? Would you want another GE if it happened?

Things have just got worse. Some of us feared this happening. It would split us even more.

Grendel · Jan 20, 2019

Sick Boy said:
It’s more in relation to your ‘epitome of the EU’ comment, which was ridiculous.

The EU is by its nature a bullying institution. It will throw a few bits of liberal legislation out but as with all large conglomerates it’s core is corrupt and aimed at profits for the few at the expense of the many

Astute · Jan 20, 2019

martcov said:
Has he been convicted of anything?

Go take your head for a shake.

So it is OK for.one as he hasn't been convicted of anything but it isn't OK for another one bevause he hasn't been convicted of anything?

I wonder which side of Brexit you favour that it is OK because nothing has been proven......

CCFCSteve · Jan 20, 2019

martcov said:
No. The original contract which was more of a constitution was amended. There was no majority for a second referendum to be held as it was considered inappropriate for such complicated questions and there was no desire to make referenda a form of government in the Netherlands. Wise choice.

Referendums related to the European Union - Wikipedia

Worth a read. In particular the section on the EU constitution in 2005. The fact that a number of countries including ours planned to hold a referendum, until they saw that the public in other countries were rejecting it, so decided not to proceed. As Grendel mentions, two countries rejected it France and Holland. I don’t believe either held a second ref and the Lisbon treaty was signed anyway three years later (basically same as the constitution).

That is not democracy in my book. It was one of the reasons I voted out (I only decided on the week leading up to the vote). Having said that I obviously hadn’t realised what a pigs ear we’d be making of it post vote !

Ps there are other referendums where people voted against the treaties and were made to vote again. They usually took place after consessions/opt outs were provided to increase the support in favour

skybluetony176 · Jan 20, 2019

CCFCSteve said:
Referendums related to the European Union - Wikipedia

Worth a read. In particular the section on the EU constitution in 2005. The fact that a number of countries including ours planned to hold a referendum, until they saw that the public in other countries were rejecting it, so decided not to proceed. As Grendel mentions, two countries rejected it France and Holland. I don’t believe either held a second ref and the Lisbon treaty was signed anyway three years later (basically same as the constitution).

That is not democracy in my book. It was one of the reasons I voted out (I only decided on the week leading up to the vote). Having said that I obviously hadn’t realised what a pigs ear we’d be making of it post vote !

Ps there are other referendums where people voted against the treaties and were made to vote again. They usually took place after consessions/opt outs were provided to increase the support in favour

Not having a go but I hear a lot of people saying that that they hadn’t realised what a pigs ear it would be or words to that effect and I’m always flabbergasted by it. Can I ask what ever made you think it would be any different to how it’s turned out?

Astute · Jan 20, 2019

CCFCSteve said:
Referendums related to the European Union - Wikipedia

Worth a read. In particular the section on the EU constitution in 2005. The fact that a number of countries including ours planned to hold a referendum, until they saw that the public in other countries were rejecting it, so decided not to proceed. As Grendel mentions, two countries rejected it France and Holland. I don’t believe either held a second ref and the Lisbon treaty was signed anyway three years later (basically same as the constitution).

That is not democracy in my book. It was one of the reasons I voted out (I only decided on the week leading up to the vote). Having said that I obviously hadn’t realised what a pigs ear we’d be making of it post vote !

Ps there are other referendums where people voted against the treaties and were made to vote again. They usually took place after consessions/opt outs were provided to increase the support in favour

I would like to know why one person on here who is remain whatever happens that voted UKIP and also championed unsavoury characters that most had a massive dislike for really voted UKIP but changed his mind. He was also seen to make racist remarks like monkey boy although I wouldn't call him racist as I prefer to have mire evidence than several posts. That is even though he constantly tries to make out I have said what I never have.

Why would someone vote UKIP that doesn't want out of the EU? The lack of intelligence of some people never ceases to amaze me.

And the lack of reasoning of some never ceases to amaze me either.

CCFCSteve · Jan 20, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
Not having a go but I hear a lot of people saying that that they hadn’t realised what a pigs ear it would be or words to that effect and I’m always flabbergasted by it. Can I ask what ever made you think it would be any different to how it’s turned out?

That was a throwaway comment Tony.

I did however expect us as a country to pull together in an attempt to get the best deal possible. This is what has annoyed/upset me most since the referendum. I’ve said before how impressed I’ve been with the solidarity of the EU members and their support of Barnier through the negotiation process. Nobody has really broken ranks.

We, on the other hand, have continually undermined and weakened our own position. It’s been bizarre.

Astute · Jan 20, 2019

CCFCSteve said:
That was a throwaway comment Tony.

I did however expect us as a country to pull together in an attempt to get the best deal possible. This has what has annoyed/upset me most since the referendum. I’ve said before how impressed I’ve been with the solidarity of the EU members and their support of Barnier through the negotiation process. Nobody has really broken ranks.

We, on the other hand, have continually undermined and weakened our own position. It’s been bizarre.

Oh dear I seem to have missed a comment by Tony.

Your answer is people like him. They refuse to think about what is best and the best way of going about things. The EU knows time was on their side. They don't lay their cards on the table. They offer the lowest amount. They give orders to keep to them until more orders are given. But many in the UK have gone 100% with project fear.

Look at what happened as soon as leaving without the deal they offered. They came straight out with hardly anything will change for at least a year. Their arse is covered. But about 50% are still happy to bow down to them.

Sick Boy · Jan 20, 2019

Astute said:
Go take your head for a shake.

So it is OK for.one as he hasn't been convicted of anything but it isn't OK for another one bevause he hasn't been convicted of anything?

I wonder which side of Brexit you favour that it is OK because nothing has been proven......

My word, deflecting away from Fox now after droning on about corruption in the EU

Sick Boy · Jan 20, 2019

Grendel said:
The EU is by its nature a bullying institution. It will throw a few bits of liberal legislation out but as with all large conglomerates it’s core is corrupt and aimed at profits for the few at the expense of the many

Yeah just like it’s improvements in consumer rights, abolishing rip off roaming charges and warning that little business Facebook about its Ts and Cs

Sick Boy · Jan 20, 2019

Astute said:
Here we go again.

I suppose most will remember that I was saying that I could see a Brexit party being firmed and maybe Farage back if we don't leave the EU. Well here you are. Looks like it is happening. Can't see us leaving... especially by the end of March. If there is another GE there will be another political party. The Brexit party. And the leader will be.....

Nigel Farage to lead new pro-Brexit party if EU departure delayed

So how many that have been hoping for another GE are now still hoping for another GE?

So is YouGov biased and Labour are closer to the Tories than they say? But could we end up with Brexit party coming second...... or even 1st as millions of people are pissed off that parliament has gone against their wishes? Most of England voted leave. Most of the seats are in England. May got 42% of the vote when she called a GE. But before then the winning vote has been less than 37% since 2001.

Could the Brexit party get 37%? Instead of having an inept Corbyn could we have a total joker Farage as PM? Would you want another GE if it happened?

Things have just got worse. Some of us feared this happening. It would split us even more.

I’m surprised you haven’t been calling out Grendel for claiming to Mart that Farage is irrelevant in the UK, or perhaps not.

This is why you get called out by people as you only ever spend time attacking those on favour of remaining.

The notion that Farage was and is irrelevant in the UK is very misleading, he has a lot of influence amongst certain voters.

However I don’t think any party of his would get anywhere, I think it’s more likely the Tory party would split

Grendel · Jan 20, 2019

Sick Boy said:
Yeah just like it’s improvements in consumer rights, abolishing rip off roaming charges and warning that little business Facebook about its Ts and Cs

I’m sure it’s of enormous benefit to all those economically ruined Southern Europe states. Meaningless attempts at deflecting from the real intent

Grendel · Jan 20, 2019

Sick Boy said:
I’m surprised you haven’t been calling out Grendel for claiming to Mart that Farage is irrelevant in the UK, or perhaps not.

In what way is he relevant. Other than Tony who on here has ever supported his party?

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 20, 2019

Astute said:
Here we go again.

I suppose most will remember that I was saying that I could see a Brexit party being firmed and maybe Farage back if we don't leave the EU. Well here you are. Looks like it is happening. Can't see us leaving... especially by the end of March. If there is another GE there will be another political party. The Brexit party. And the leader will be.....

Nigel Farage to lead new pro-Brexit party if EU departure delayed

So how many that have been hoping for another GE are now still hoping for another GE?

So is YouGov biased and Labour are closer to the Tories than they say? But could we end up with Brexit party coming second...... or even 1st as millions of people are pissed off that parliament has gone against their wishes? Most of England voted leave. Most of the seats are in England. May got 42% of the vote when she called a GE. But before then the winning vote has been less than 37% since 2001.

Could the Brexit party get 37%? Instead of having an inept Corbyn could we have a total joker Farage as PM? Would you want another GE if it happened?

Things have just got worse. Some of us feared this happening. It would split us even more.

Would be an insane vote to use for a protest. Hope they wouldn’t get more than 15% but you may be right

Sick Boy · Jan 20, 2019

Grendel said:
In what way is he relevant. Other than Tony who on here has ever supported his party?

It was Astute who posted the article and his claims of a new party, argue it with him.

Mucca Mad Boys · Jan 20, 2019

Astute said:
Here we go again.

I suppose most will remember that I was saying that I could see a Brexit party being firmed and maybe Farage back if we don't leave the EU. Well here you are. Looks like it is happening. Can't see us leaving... especially by the end of March. If there is another GE there will be another political party. The Brexit party. And the leader will be.....

Nigel Farage to lead new pro-Brexit party if EU departure delayed

So how many that have been hoping for another GE are now still hoping for another GE?

So is YouGov biased and Labour are closer to the Tories than they say? But could we end up with Brexit party coming second...... or even 1st as millions of people are pissed off that parliament has gone against their wishes? Most of England voted leave. Most of the seats are in England. May got 42% of the vote when she called a GE. But before then the winning vote has been less than 37% since 2001.

Could the Brexit party get 37%? Instead of having an inept Corbyn could we have a total joker Farage as PM? Would you want another GE if it happened?

Things have just got worse. Some of us feared this happening. It would split us even more.

Could a Brexit party get 37%? In short, no. Our electoral system disproportionately favours Labour and Conservative and each party has at least 100 seats each that are safe seats. UKIP failed to get a single seat in an election where they got 15% of the popular vote.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

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