Grendel
Well-Known Member
I haven’t just realised it I posted the same several weeks ago when I pointed out fiscal union in the EU exists which of course you’ve been trying to pretend does not
The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (66 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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I haven’t just realised it I posted the same several weeks ago when I pointed out fiscal union in the EU exists which of course you’ve been trying to pretend does not
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I respectfully disagree. Too many MPs who are Remainers, from all the parties to allow that to happen without a fight.
But, we'll have to wait and see.
The only hint at a fiscal union is the minimum VAT rate, with exceptions, for which we had a veto, but didn’t use it as we were also for a minimum VAT rate. There is a monetary union for the Eurozone, which you confused with a fiscal union. And I certainly don’t remember you understanding pooled sovereignty in the past.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Define fiscal for me
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Sorry that’s really not answering the question but is typical deception.
Read out Keynes definition of fiscal policy and then can you post that on here?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
The current motion is against the PM, not Government. Personally, it's I think it's political posturing which won't lead to anything because the Tories will not want to look divided to the public and the implication of this motion winning is a process that leads to changing the PM. Hence, the Conservatives are rallying around their leader.
This picture becomes far more complicated if the Government loses a parliamentary vote on May's deal. This is because the country will be headed toward a no deal Brexit which MPs are opposed to. Despite people like Rees-Mogg saying they'll support the PM in this motion, it doesn't change that people like him will still vote against her deal. To quote Rees-Mogg from The Brexit Lectures (BBC iPlayer, 23rd June 2018) he said it's even worse to be 'vassal state' than a full member of the EU. I doubt that this fundamental schism can be mended, and if JRM actually backs this deal, it will be a monumental sell-out. In fact, I'd argue that May's deal isn't a real Brexit and frankly, Barry Gardiner lays it out better than I could in the linked article where he says it'd 'con' to the 52%.
If faced by a real prospect of a no deal, then it's conceivable pro-Remain Tory MPs would back a motion of no confidence in the Government.
Brexit means leaving the single market and the customs union. Here’s why | Barry Gardiner
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westcountry_skyblue
Guest
EU now squirming in the fact we go with no deal
No 39 billion and that will make other nations sit up and think,They hate the fact we may go without a deal.
Things will be fine with no deal life will go on
Be good to see the BBC wetting their pants when no deal happens!!!
No 39 billion and that will make other nations sit up and think,They hate the fact we may go without a deal.
Things will be fine with no deal life will go on
Be good to see the BBC wetting their pants when no deal happens!!!
The BBC is under attack for being pro Brexit. The 39bn will not go away. It will just mean years of litigation ( sound familiar? ). The 2 bn extra to the billions already approved/ spent on ‚no deal‘ will not come back.
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westcountry_skyblue
Guest
5% of the BBCs fee comes from the EU just watch the vote night and they are all squirming
You mean 95% comes from our government. I know who holds most sway.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You are trying really hard but what is fiscal policy and the ability to influence as defined by Keynesian economics?
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westcountry_skyblue
Guest
They will hate the fact 2 years down the line we will be performing well outside the EU
We don’t want an EU army we can cope alone without the Germans telling us what to do life will carry on we are doing ok at the moment and 52% is the result we got
no need for another vote.
We will be fine we’ve paid our share over the years
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Why would no deal mean no £39bn
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I don’t think we’ll get to see no deal but I’m not sure it’s worth the risk if we’re not sure West Country. How much of the Eu money do you think the government would have spent if not in the Eu?
Good that you know that as all evidence points to the contrary.
As for the EU army, members have a veto on that and BoJo the Clown said that we would be a bulwark for European military cooperation.
Tell your bank manager that you are not paying your mortgage off because you’ve paid loads in in the past. Let me know how you get on.
It is pretty obvious that you don’t or can’t accept the difference and I am Christmas Shopping.. so Google it yourself.. It is not difficult
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Anyway I’ll help you. You have made a rather stupid assumption that fiscal = taxation strategy.
It does not. It’s using all the tools at its disposal to provide economic stimulus. This includes increase spending and borrowing to stimulate the market. Classic fiscal policy.
Fiscal policy that has been included in the Italian budget and rejected by Brussels.
I’m sorry if you couldn’t even see that then you really are a very dim chap
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Back in the EU the Belgium government has just collapsed because they signed the UN compact on migration without the full agreement of all coalition partners.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Is it the nazis and the fascists didn’t want to sign it?
Fiscal policy is basically taxation and spending controlled by government. Monetary policy is interest rates and money supply controlled by the central bank. Italy is bound by the EMU which has monetary union in the title. Have the Italians been told to alter their tax system or told what to spend their money on? They are in a monetary union, but have to take a fiscal measure as they have exceeded their borrowing limit. They are not in a fiscal union though and can still set their own tax rates and propose their own budget within the limits agreed with the monetary union.
A fiscal union involves agreed taxation rates.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
So they can borrow as much as they want. Really?
A fiscal Union is a taxation union. Italy is not in a taxation union.
An element of a fiscal union would help according to Bloomberg:
„Europe also needs elements of a fiscal union, to help countries that are experiencing an isolated economic shock. Mario Draghi, president of the European Central Bank, has supported the first idea and seems sympathetic to the second. But some euro-zone members fear such plans would lead to permanent fiscal transfers from north to south.“
Which suggests that we don’t yet have a fiscal union.
No they cannot because of the ECB.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It’s pretty much what Corbyn is proposing if he gets in government and certainly not what the Tories have done since being in government.
I think Sickboy is onto something. You’re a closet Corbyn supporter.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You are all over the place
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You do realise that Italy’s financial woes have been caused by decades of supercharged Keynesian economics? Low taxes and high government borrowing.
Astute
Well-Known Member
The last motion was against the MP. And it was won by the PM.
The talk was against the government. Look back.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Absolute bollocks as usual.
The BBC is as pro remain as you could get. It is as bad as you for jumping on anything that can be seen as bad for the UK and defending the EU. Look at the readers comments. And even though it is fully pro EU the reader comments are not.
Astute
Well-Known Member
There is nothing in law to say we would have to pay. We have agreed a budget but that finishes just after we leave. We have also agreed to help fund the ECB. But most of that should come back.
We have agreed to pay 39b but only with a trade agreement. Without a trade agreement they would struggle to get much out of us. And even if they did it would take many years.
But I have a feeling the Tories would back down.
I don’t look at the reader‘s comments, but there is a huge thing going on about Andrew Neill connections to the Adam Smith Institue and also Newsnight and their dubious pro Brexit guests.
What an amazing statement. Of course we have to pay what we owe. We are not donating money to the EU. We have agreed to meet all our legal obligations. If it’s a no deal, it will be done differently, but we have already agreed what we owe.
No. You don’t know the difference between a monetary union, the EMU, and a fiscal union. Policy is another subject.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
The Australians didn't sign it.
