The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (12 Viewers)

Astute · Nov 23, 2018

Sick Boy said:
Then surely you consider that those who were invited to move here from the former-colonies have also caused a strain, yet you only ever seem to target EU migrants. If the economy remains successful after Brexit, then both skilled and non-skilled migrants will required. The government likes to go on about record employment levels, if that is the case then it suggests these workers are filling jobs; I would be much more sympathetic to your point if there were increasing levels of unemployment but it is those at the job taking care of their own and ignoring those at the bottom and blaming working people looking for a better life who come to this country and contribute in tax revenues.

I think that Blair made a mistake in not implementing controls on Poles working here when Poland joined the EU, there was a sudden surge and it caused people to feel unsettled, I remember it at the time. This was a domestic policy though, and I am sure I read somewhere that since Germany lifted restrictions, more have started to go there instead.

I don't just target EU migrants. I don't even target EU migrants.

What I say is it causes a strain in places. I say it adds to the housing crisis. I say that our government needs to sort itself out and solve the problems.

Do i target people for having babies? No. But that also puts a strain on the situation. They will become adults one day. And their families need a bigger home. We don't have the infrastructure to cope.

Why is this so hard to understand? Why is it two years later I am saying exactly the same thing yet some on here still try to twist it as me being anti EU or anti immigration?

Then you get someone like Tony or Mart who just chat shite all the time.

dutchman · Nov 23, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
I suspect he’s done more for the benefit of the U.K. in the 27 years he’s been here than you’ll achieve in your lifetime.

He's certainly done well for himelf. How much does he get paid for each Virgin Media advert?

martcov · Nov 23, 2018

Astute said:
I don't just target EU migrants. I don't even target EU migrants.

What I say is it causes a strain in places. I say it adds to the housing crisis. I say that our government needs to sort itself out and solve the problems.

Do i target people for having babies? No. But that also puts a strain on the situation. They will become adults one day. And their families need a bigger home. We don't have the infrastructure to cope.

Why is this so hard to understand? Why is it two years later I am saying exactly the same thing yet some on here still try to twist it as me being anti EU or anti immigration?

Then you get someone like Tony or Mart who just chat shite all the time.

Haha...

Astute · Nov 23, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
So what have I said that’s factually incorrect? The only person who twisted is you. You said that the mental health unit was closing because they couldn’t cope because of immigrants swelling the local population. A) it wasn’t closing it was moving. B) it was moving to make way for an growing elderly population not a growing immigrant population as you claimed. That’s you twisting not me. You post a link to a benefit to the Hospital as a growth in the migrant population saved the maternity unit from closure as the population growth has made the unit sustainable. You now dismiss and twist your own link. That’s again you twisting, not me. Twisting your own link I might add, nothing I brought up in the first place. And then we had your anecdote yesterday about a woman dying when being moved to a different hospital as if somehow it was the fault of the EU or immigration yet in your post (presumably copied and pasted) it said it was due to a delay in the decision to move her that caused her death. I asked you to clarify how that was the EU’s fault and never got an explanation after you had tried to twist a delayed decision into it being the fault of the EU and migrants. Twisting again.

Then you have the audacity to accuse others of twisting. I’ve corrected your twisting, nothing else. If I’m guilty of anything it’s untwisting not twisting. You should change your username to Chubby Checker with the amount of twisting you do.

Every time your lips move or every time you make a post you say something factually incorrect. Look at how many times I have proved you wring so far.

In fact you have just joined Mart on the idiots list. Thankfully I won't be able to see any more if the diatribe that you come out with. I can only take a certain amount from idiots. You have finally reached the limit.

skybluetony176 · Nov 23, 2018

dutchman said:
He's certainly done well for himelf. How much does he get paid for each Virgin Media advert?

How would I know and why is that relevant? Why is he in a position that virgin media want him to do their adverts? That’s relevant and something to make you proud to be British.

SIR ERNIE · Nov 23, 2018

CCFCSteve said:
Read both sides of the arguments on it. Bizarrely, under the circumstances it’s probably reflective of the split nation that we are. She’s tried to please everyone

Well if her aim was to 'please everyone' she failed spectacularly.
No Leaver should ever support this daft agreement because it commits us to being shackled even more closely to the EU.
No Remainer should support it because in agreeing to it we accept far worse terms than we currently have.

The choice was sweet or savoury. I voted savoury and she's dished up a bacon trifle.

skybluetony176 · Nov 23, 2018

Astute said:
I don't just target EU migrants. I don't even target EU migrants.

What I say is it causes a strain in places. I say it adds to the housing crisis. I say that our government needs to sort itself out and solve the problems.

Do i target people for having babies? No. But that also puts a strain on the situation. They will become adults one day. And their families need a bigger home. We don't have the infrastructure to cope.

Why is this so hard to understand? Why is it two years later I am saying exactly the same thing yet some on here still try to twist it as me being anti EU or anti immigration?

Then you get someone like Tony or Mart who just chat shite all the time.

Ha ha ha ha. Thanks Chubby. I needed a good laugh.

martcov · Nov 23, 2018

Astute said:
Every time your lips move or every time you make a post you say something factually incorrect. Look at how many times I have proved you wring so far.

In fact you have just joined Mart on the idiots list. Thankfully I won't be able to see any more if the diatribe that you come out with. I can only take a certain amount from idiots. You have finally reached the limit.

Hilarious. You keep getting caught out and now you want to ban all criticism. You will still be wrong even if you cannot read the criticism of your posts.

skybluetony176 · Nov 23, 2018

Astute said:
Every time your lips move or every time you make a post you say something factually incorrect. Look at how many times I have proved you wring so far.

In fact you have just joined Mart on the idiots list. Thankfully I won't be able to see any more if the diatribe that you come out with. I can only take a certain amount from idiots. You have finally reached the limit.

So you posted a link to prove a point and then when the content of your link is pointed out to you, you dismiss it. The vast majority of links you post disprove what you say so how exactly are you proving me wrong? By agreeing with me to disagree with me?

So you choose to block me instead. Ignorance is bliss. Not surprised that you’re blocking me because ignorance (even to your own links) is what you do best.

martcov · Nov 23, 2018

SIR ERNIE said:
Well if her aim was to 'please everyone' she failed spectacularly.
No Leaver should ever support this daft agreement because it commits us to being shackled even more closely to the EU.
No Remainer should support it because in agreeing to it we accept far worse terms than we currently have.

The choice was sweet or savoury. I voted savoury and she's dished up a bacon trifle.

I agree. But, I have yet to see the actual benefits of leaving. So, how can she present something which is better than we have now? Virtual full employment, 5 strongest economy in the world, important player in the EU and therefore the continent where we live. Beat that! They cannot.

skybluetony176 · Nov 23, 2018

martcov said:
Hilarious. You keep getting caught out and now you want to ban all criticism. You will still be wrong even if you cannot read the criticism of your posts.

Self imposed censorship. Moronic behaviour at it’s best.

dutchman · Nov 23, 2018

fellatio_Martinez said:
The notion that immigration will stop after even the hardest of brexits is naive.

African migrants will fill whatever gap the EU workers leave.

They will as long as the UK treasury sets a minimum target of 200,000 migrant workers every year.

skybluetony176 · Nov 23, 2018

SIR ERNIE said:
Well if her aim was to 'please everyone' she failed spectacularly.
No Leaver should ever support this daft agreement because it commits us to being shackled even more closely to the EU.
No Remainer should support it because in agreeing to it we accept far worse terms than we currently have.

The choice was sweet or savoury. I voted savoury and she's dished up a bacon trifle.

Large sections of the business world seem very pleased with her plan. The entire Northern Ireland business community for one. On question time last night you had the pro leave boss of Iceland’s backing it and you also had the pro remain former boss of John Lewis backing it. Maybe it’s time to take the politics out of it and listen to the people who run industry in this country instead. Afterall it’s them that really run the economy that pays our wages that allows us to pay our mortgages/rent, put food on our table, clothes on our backs etc.

I’m just starting to feel that we’re allowing ourselves to get to engrossed in party politics, Westminster game playing, MP’s stabbing each other in the back etc and actually taking our eyes off the real prize.

SIR ERNIE · Nov 23, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Large sections of the business world seem very pleased with her plan. The entire Northern Ireland business community for one. On question time last night you had the pro leave boss of Iceland’s backing it and you also had the pro remain former boss of John Lewis backing it. Maybe it’s time to take the politics out of it and listen to the people who run industry in this country instead. Afterall it’s them that really run the economy that pays our wages that allows us to pay our mortgages/rent, put food on our table, clothes on our backs etc.

Oh please.
Business Leaders are interested only in their businesses.
Do you seriously imagine they really care about the UK?

dutchman · Nov 23, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
How would I know and why is that relevant? Why is he in a position that virgin media want him to do their adverts? That’s relevant and something to make you proud to be British.

" A Somali winning a gold medal makes me proud to be British" says a person who wants to abolish the British nation-state in favour of a European Union!

skybluetony176 · Nov 23, 2018

SIR ERNIE said:
Oh please.
Business Leaders are interested only in their businesses.
Do you seriously imagine they really care about the UK?

For sure that’s their interest, I wouldn’t disagree with that. My point is though that that is the real world, not the bubble known as Westminster. That’s especially true of the last couple of years where brexit has become a political football that the parties kick around playing party politics. Even more true in the last couple of weeks where you have a minority within the conservatives who have just used brexit to try and bullshit the PM into resigning. Westminster isn’t the real world. Maybe it’s time to start ignoring them and pay attention to those who operate outside of that bubble.

martcov · Nov 23, 2018

SIR ERNIE said:
Oh please.
Business Leaders are interested only in their businesses.
Do you seriously imagine they really care about the UK?

Then you admit that the American billionaires‘ money backing leave supporting think tanks and lobbyists is there for another purpose than backing working class people who feel disadvantaged by globalisation? Lord Snooty and the ERG couldn’t give a toss about working people and are actively working against their interests by pushing for a hard Brexit.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Nov 23, 2018

martcov said:
I agree. But, I have yet to see the actual benefits of leaving. So, how can she present something which is better than we have now? Virtual full employment, 5 strongest economy in the world, important player in the EU and therefore the continent where we live. Beat that! They cannot.

You may well be right on these issues but for many who voted Brexit it doesn't feel like the country is ,for them , particularly affluent. Plenty of jobs on low pay around that's for sure. I voted Brexit. I'm older and better off than I've ever been. I voted for my kid's future.

martcov · Nov 23, 2018

dutchman said:
" A Somali winning a gold medal makes me proud to be British" says a person who wants to abolish the British nation-state in favour of a European Union!

Who wants to abolish the British nation state? More chance of it being sold off to hedge funds if Snooty, Davis and co do a FTA deal with the USA. It is safer in the hands of a 28 state European Union, where it has a say and influence, than in a post Brexit free for all. I don’t see a future as a distressed trading partner at America‘s mercy.

martcov · Nov 23, 2018

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
You may well be right on these issues but for many who voted Brexit it doesn't feel like the country is ,for them , particularly affluent. Plenty of jobs on low pay around that's for sure. I voted Brexit. I'm older and better off than I've ever been. I voted for my kid's future.

My kid‘s future is European. Not as a citizen of a junior partner of the USA. There is loads of money in Britain. Just go to London and see the wealth. It is not fairly distributed though. The press that should be campaigning for a better distribution is owned/ controlled by billionaires ( 80% of it according to Corbyn ). Journalists such as Johnson have been battering the EU for years. What the fxxk has the EU got to do with wealth distribution inside the UK? It is a distraction, a slight of hand.... that results in discussions on here about Selmayr, Juncker, Merkel and whatever other bogey man they can dig out. Truth is that by leaving, the lobbyists for free market capitalism without the checks of worker’s rights and environmental laws, will have won. And we will be arguing about Selmayr as the welfare state and NHS is dismantled. Or, rather you will be. I have EU citizenship for me and my daughter as well as British.

skybluetony176 · Nov 23, 2018

dutchman said:
" A Somali winning a gold medal makes me proud to be British" says a person who wants to abolish the British nation-state in favour of a European Union!

What a load of bollocks. On so many levels.

fernandopartridge · Nov 23, 2018

May hasn't tried to please everybody. She's taken the leave vote to mean that ending FoM is number one priority for all leave voters, and has made every other objective of leaving subservient to that.

fernandopartridge · Nov 23, 2018

martcov said:
Truth is that by leaving, the lobbyists for free market capitalism without the checks of worker’s rights and environmental laws, will have won. .

Come off it, all the EU does is enables lobbyists of big conglomerates to target 28 countries as one, it makes their life easier not more difficult.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Nov 23, 2018

martcov said:
My kid‘s future is European. Not as a citizen of a junior partner of the USA. There is loads of money in Britain. Just go to London and see the wealth. It is not fairly distributed though. The press that should be campaigning for a better distribution is owned/ controlled by billionaires ( 80% of it according to Corbyn ). Journalists such as Johnson have been battering the EU for years. What the fxxk has the EU got to do with wealth distribution inside the UK? It is a distraction, a slight of hand.... that results in discussions on here about Selmayr, Juncker, Merkel and whatever other bogey man they can dig out. Truth is that by leaving, the lobbyists for free market capitalism without the checks of worker’s rights and environmental laws, will have won. And we will be arguing about Selmayr as the welfare state and NHS is dismantled. Or, rather you will be. I have EU citizenship for me and my daughter as well as British.

There is enormous wealth in London. Most people don't live in London. I didn't mention anything about distribution of wealth in the UK nor did I say the EU were responsible for it. Don't tell me what I will be arguing for, because you don't know me from Adam. If you're kids' future is European (whatever that means) then good for them. Lots of people say they're "European" but when push comes to shove they don't really know what this means. Some think it's cool to be European . I think it's okay to be British, French, Spanish etc.

martcov · Nov 23, 2018

fernandopartridge said:
Come off it, all the EU does is enables lobbyists of big conglomerates to target 28 countries as one, it makes their life easier not more difficult.

Why is USA big business for leave - as shown by the funding of think tanks and the links to Trump and GOP? They should be backing remain, but they’re not. Easier to make a quick buck in a deregulated distressed trading partner..UK.

martcov · Nov 23, 2018

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
There is enormous wealth in London. Most people don't live in London. I didn't mention anything about distribution of wealth in the UK nor did I say the EU were responsible for it. Don't tell me what I will be arguing for, because you don't know me from Adam. If you're kids' future is European (whatever that means) then good for them. Lots of people say they're "European" but when push comes to shove they don't really know what this means. Some think it's cool to be European . I think it's okay to be British, French, Spanish etc.

No you didn’t, but you mentioned the people who don’t feel affluent after I had said there was money in the UK economy. I presumed that you were pointing out the distribution of wealth.

I know what European means. Nothing to do with being cool, just a fact. It is possible to be both without making a political statement. Seeing as my daughter is half German ( or a quarter really because her grand mother is Dutch ) and speaks three languages and is learning a fourth and has a Spanish boyfriend.. I would say she sees herself as European and could land up in Spain, England, Germany or another, probably, EU country when she has finished her studies, then it is not being „cool“ to say her future will probably be European.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Nov 23, 2018

martcov said:
No you didn’t, but you mentioned the people who don’t feel affluent after I had said there was money in the UK economy. I presumed that you were pointing out the distribution of wealth.

I know what European means. Nothing to do with being cool, just a fact. It is possible to be both without making a political statement. Seeing as my daughter is half German ( or a quarter really because her grand mother is Dutch ) and speaks three languages and is learning a fourth and has a Spanish boyfriend.. I would say she sees herself as European and could land up in Spain, England, Germany or another, probably, EU country when she has finished her studies, then it is not being „cool“ to say her future will probably be European.

Bully for you , my friend. My daughters have an English father (me) an English mother (well, cockney) and every single relative appears to be English, though I'm sure if I go back far enough we could find some Viking or other blood in the line. I'm sure if I had married a French lady my kids would be bi lingual and I would be on here banging on about it.
It's just the way the dice rolls. I'm really pleased that your daughter speaks umpteen languages and feels European and has a Spanish boyfriend. I bet he speaks fluent English as well.
Many people in England don't speak another language, and that includes younger people. You're daughter may land a job abroad because she speaks another language, and that's great, but there aren't many in that position.
As for your comments about not seeing any benefits in leaving the EU yet, we haven't yet left.

Sick Boy · Nov 23, 2018

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
There is enormous wealth in London. Most people don't live in London. I didn't mention anything about distribution of wealth in the UK nor did I say the EU were responsible for it. Don't tell me what I will be arguing for, because you don't know me from Adam. If you're kids' future is European (whatever that means) then good for them. Lots of people say they're "European" but when push comes to shove they don't really know what this means. Some think it's cool to be European . I think it's okay to be British, French, Spanish etc.

There is nothing to suggest that Brexit is about carving a better future for the poorest in our society, that is the most tragic thing about all of this for me.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Nov 23, 2018

Sick Boy said:
There is nothing to suggest that Brexit is about carving a better future for the poorest in our society, that is the most tragic thing about all of this for me.

I don't disagree with that at all . Being in the EU has allowed many from weaker economies to better themselves by working in western Europe. I benefit from strawberries 365 days a year.

Sick Boy · Nov 23, 2018

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
I don't disagree with that at all . Being in the EU has allowed many from weaker economies to better themselves by working in western Europe. I benefit from strawberries 365 days a year.

We also import unseasonal fruits and vegetables from outside of the EU, I would say that this is to cater to consumer demands. I would much prefer to see seasonal vegetables in the supermarkets like in other European countries.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Nov 23, 2018

Sick Boy said:
We also import unseasonal fruits and vegetables from outside of the EU, I would say that this is to cater to consumer demands. I would much prefer to see seasonal vegetables in the supermarkets like in other European countries.

Yes indeed. Oranges used to be seasonal and I could never peel them .

martcov · Nov 23, 2018

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Bully for you , my friend. My daughters have an English father (me) an English mother (well, cockney) and every single relative appears to be English, though I'm sure if I go back far enough we could find some Viking or other blood in the line. I'm sure if I had married a French lady my kids would be bi lingual and I would be on here banging on about it.
It's just the way the dice rolls. I'm really pleased that your daughter speaks umpteen languages and feels European and has a Spanish boyfriend. I bet he speaks fluent English as well.
Many people in England don't speak another language, and that includes younger people. You're daughter may land a job abroad because she speaks another language, and that's great, but there aren't many in that position.
As for your comments about not seeing any benefits in leaving the EU yet, we haven't yet left.

You inferred that I didn’t know what being European meant. I explained it. Now you say I was banging on about it.

If we are leaving, we should at least know what benefits we are going to get after we have left. We don’t.

martcov · Nov 23, 2018

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Bully for you , my friend. My daughters have an English father (me) an English mother (well, cockney) and every single relative appears to be English, though I'm sure if I go back far enough we could find some Viking or other blood in the line. I'm sure if I had married a French lady my kids would be bi lingual and I would be on here banging on about it.
It's just the way the dice rolls. I'm really pleased that your daughter speaks umpteen languages and feels European and has a Spanish boyfriend. I bet he speaks fluent English as well.
Many people in England don't speak another language, and that includes younger people. You're daughter may land a job abroad because she speaks another language, and that's great, but there aren't many in that position.
As for your comments about not seeing any benefits in leaving the EU yet, we haven't yet left.

British people generally don’t speak another language and don’t do a year of School in another EU country. As you point out. This is a deficit in the UK education system and has probably restricted the job opportunities of many people over the years. It also contributed to the lack of information about the EU of some British voters. Now, you have voted to make the deficit worse, apparently „for your kids“. Yes, well.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Nov 23, 2018

martcov said:
British people generally don’t speak another language and don’t do a year of School in another EU country. As you point out. This is a deficit in the UK education system and has probably restricted the job opportunities of many people over the years. It also contributed to the lack of information about the EU of some British voters. Now, you have voted to make the deficit worse, apparently „for your kids“. Yes, well.

What utter tosh. I bet if you asked your daughter if she felt British or European and she replied the former , you'd be very disappointed.

martcov · Nov 23, 2018

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
What utter tosh. I bet if you asked your daughter if she felt British or European and she replied the former , you'd be very disappointed.

I would be surprised if she said she was British. Although I would also be surprised if she said she was German. In England everyone thinks she’s English if they don’t know that her mother is German. No one is that interested. If people ask, she says she has an English dad.. according to her. She wanted to do a school year in another country as it would maybe help her in the future. I backed her and paid her accommodation as I felt it would also be of benefit. I did it „for my kid“. Broaden her mind, improve her language skills etc. You voted Brexit for your kids. Coming on a bundle isn’t it? They must be really happy.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (12 Viewers)

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