The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (5 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · Sep 14, 2018

Sick Boy said:
In reality it's a sentiment shared by a majority in the GB, especially in England and the younger generations. I'd wager most wouldn't be opposed to Irish unity, neither would the UK government. Would the Republic want to take the north on though? I doubt it.

Still doesn’t devalue the GFA. And to suggest that it only effects a small minority of the U.K. population is just moronic given that the IRA operated on the mainland. Even Gilbralter (who also got a vote in the referendum) was effected.

If I’d have been asked 3 years ago would Northern Ireland leave the U.K. and unite Ireland I would have said yes but not in my lifetime. Immediately after the referendum I would have said maybe in my lifetime, lately I would say that I wouldn’t be surprised if it happens within a decade. Still, the break up of the union was just another leave scare story so I’m sure it won’t happen.

Grendel · Sep 14, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Still doesn’t devalue the GFA. And to suggest that it only effects a small minority of the U.K. population is just moronic given that the IRA operated on the mainland. Even Gilbralter (who also got a vote in the referendum) was effected.

If I’d have been asked 3 years ago would Northern Ireland leave the U.K. and unite Ireland I would have said yes but not in my lifetime. Immediately after the referendum I would have said maybe in my lifetime, lately I would say that I wouldn’t be surprised if it happens within a decade. Still, the break up of the union was just another leave scare story so I’m sure it won’t happen.

The GFA was a shameful act of appeasement

skybluetony176 · Sep 14, 2018

Grendel said:
The IRA should have paid for their crimes by the rope - the appeasement if the murdering filth was a blot on the uk history books

I would look at the history of British colonial rule atrocities in the commonwealth before you you start slapping yourself on the back for that post. Many of which happened on the Island of Ireland and has a direct route to the atrocities committed by the IRA.

skybluetony176 · Sep 14, 2018

Grendel said:
The GFA was a shameful act of appeasement

The GFA was delivered as the result of a referendum. A referendum that delivered a far clearer answer than Brexit by some distance. That’s democracy, get over it.

Grendel · Sep 14, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
The GFA was delivered as the result of a referendum. A referendum that delivered a far clearer answer than Brexit by some distance. That’s democracy, get over it.

Achieved by blowing up people eating a McDonald’s in Warrington - shame on you

martcov · Sep 14, 2018

Grendel said:
The GFA was a shameful act of appeasement

You really sound like a fascist now.

skybluetony176 · Sep 14, 2018

Sick Boy said:
Numerous sides committed atrocities and 2 sides terrorism, funny how you never mention that.

All sides found freedom from the GFA as well. It wasn’t exclusive to people of Catholic faith. All sides have to ask for and give forgiveness from the troubles. The GFA has allowed that opportunity.

skybluetony176 · Sep 14, 2018

Grendel said:
Achieved by blowing up people eating a McDonald’s in Warrington - shame on you

Achieved by a brave PM starting a process of piece and a girl from Coventry making sure it happened. I didn’t plant the bomb. I’m from a Protestant family with a long and proud history of serving in the British armed forces and RUC/PSNI including in the last year a Catholic cousin joining the PSNI. How dare you insinuate Warrington had something to do with me. Shame on you.

Grendel · Sep 14, 2018

martcov said:
You really sound like a fascist now.

Interesting - why?

Grendel · Sep 14, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
All sides found freedom from the GFA as well. It wasn’t exclusive to people of Catholic faith. All sides have to ask for and give forgiveness from the troubles. The GFA has allowed that opportunity.

It’s rather nice Sick Boy likes your post and Martcov believed I’m a fascist.

Perhaps sick boy would like to explain why the shadow Chancellor voted against it and the apparent prime minister in waiting voted against its predecessor

skybluetony176 · Sep 14, 2018

Grendel said:
It’s rather nice Sick Boy likes your post and Martcov believed I’m a fascist.

Perhaps sick boy would like to explain why the shadow Chancellor voted against it and the apparent prime minister in waiting voted against its predecessor

Maybe at the same time you can explain why victims on all sides voted for the GFA. 71% voted for it in the referendum, many of who lost friends and family and all that voted lived through the troubles on a daily basis. The majority of my family voted for it, my family’s history fighting against the IRA goes back to the 1920’s and multiple victims at every stage including murder. What makes you think that you know better than them?

martcov · Sep 14, 2018

Grendel said:
Interesting - why?

Because describing a peace agreement arrived at after 20 odd years of civil war with thousands of dead, which was accepted by the vast majority of the population and involved the Republic altering it's constitution, as a shameful act of appeasement is what fascists do. As did Hitler with the Versailles treaty, or more recently the AfD's worst MdB, Höcke, who called the memorial to the 6 million Jews and others in Berlin as 'shameful' and a 'disgrace'. You're up there with them. And, yes, as Tony says, you are a self centred prick.

Sick Boy · Sep 14, 2018

Grendel said:
Perhaps sick boy would like to explain why the shadow Chancellor voted against it and the apparent prime minister in waiting voted against its predecessor

I've already said I'm not a fan of either of them. It seems you agree and have more in common with them more than I do.

Just because I think he will be the next PM does not mean I am a fan of him. Personally I think he is a bit of a dinosaur.

fernandopartridge · Sep 14, 2018

Grendel said:
No it was a war

If it was a war anything the IRA did was an act of war by you're logic.

Sick Boy · Sep 14, 2018

Grendel said:
The GFA was a shameful act of appeasement

That's a pretty extreme view and very, very much in the minority in both th UK and Ireland.

skybluetony176 · Sep 14, 2018

Sick Boy said:
That's a pretty extreme view and very, very much in the minority in both th UK and Ireland.

North and South of Ireland too. People often forget that the south had a referendum on the GFA as it required constitutional change in the south 95% for.

The turnout in the North was incredible (81%) and balanced between Protestant and Catholic. The people on the ground new it was worth voting for.

Grendel · Sep 15, 2018

fernandopartridge said:
If it was a war anything the IRA did was an act of war by you're logic.

No it was several acts of murder and terroriosm

Astute · Sep 15, 2018

martcov said:
the referendum wasn't about Selmayr, it was about the future of the UK. I count that as more important than Juncker or Selmayr.

Was that because the referendum kept to the rules and Juncker putting Selmayr in place broke all the rules?

Astute · Sep 15, 2018

Sick Boy said:
If you genuinely believe that then you're very much out of touch.

If the YouGov poll would have said 51% or more wanted to stay in the EU it would have been the truth to you. But because only 21% want a new vote in the YouGov poll it isn't true?

And you say it is me who is out of touch.

martcov · Sep 15, 2018

Astute said:
Was that because the referendum kept to the rules and Juncker putting Selmayr in place broke all the rules?

The referendum didn’t keep to the rules. That is an ongoing investigation. More to come.

martcov · Sep 15, 2018

Astute said:
Was that because the referendum kept to the rules and Juncker putting Selmayr in place broke all the rules?

Even the EC got it wrong and helped leave break the rules. Both sides lied. Leave more. Leave are under investigation for lying about financing. Banks put money from Russian sources in. If we had an independent prosecutor with powers to force people to give information coordinating the several investigations like Moeller, we would have a better picture of how the referendum was stolen. The referendum is a far bigger scandal than the Selmayr appointment. But, you aren’t following that although it effects the future of the UK.

Latest admission that it was flawed:

Elections watchdog got law wrong on Brexit donations, court rules

martcov · Sep 15, 2018

Astute said:
Found one worded a bit better on behalf of Germany. Thought you would be happier with this one.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/miltonezrati/2018/01/23/the-german-swindle-built-into-the-euro/

Here is an opinion on the value of Britain‘s past devaluations and future devaluation as suggested by some in labour.

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

Astute · Sep 15, 2018

martcov said:
The referendum didn’t keep to the rules. That is an ongoing investigation. More to come.

You mean the leaflet drop to try and get us to remain that cost more than the budget should have been alone?

Astute · Sep 15, 2018

martcov said:
Even the EC got it wrong and helped leave break the rules. Both sides lied. Leave more. Leave are under investigation for lying about financing. Banks put money from Russian sources in. If we had an independent prosecutor with powers to force people to give information coordinating the several investigations like Moeller, we would have a better picture of how the referendum was stolen. The referendum is a far bigger scandal than the Selmayr appointment. But, you aren’t following that although it effects the future of the UK.

Latest admission that it was flawed:

Elections watchdog got law wrong on Brexit donations, court rules

Anything to try and put the Selmayr fiasco into the background.

Have you noticed the difference between the EU and the UK?

If someone high up in the EU is found guilty of something they just say it won't happen again. If someone concerned in the leave side with Brexit dies anything wrong they get it taken all the way.

Astute · Sep 15, 2018

martcov said:
Here is an opinion on the value of Britain‘s past devaluations and future devaluation as suggested by some in labour.

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

So what other countries have their currency tied to or share ours?

That is why the poor countries using the Euro will never recover until they leave it and why we do so well out of it. If we had joined the Euro we would also be fucked.

Captain Dart · Sep 15, 2018

martcov · Sep 15, 2018

Astute said:
So what other countries have their currency tied to or share ours?

That is why the poor countries using the Euro will never recover until they leave it and why we do so well out of it. If we had joined the Euro we would also be fucked.

The opinion was that our devaluations didn't help us much, and that devaluation doesn't help as much as it used to as exporters continue to keep their dollar or euro price. Basically he is saying that it is a waste of time devaluing and that the public are worse off than they would have been. Not exactly saying that we do well out of being able to devalue. The same would apply to the poorer countries you are on about. You claim they will never recover, but the Eurozone is recovering. We will see how much being out on our own helps us when we leave the EU. Will be interesting.

martcov · Sep 15, 2018

Captain Dart said:

That's it then. Good that we are leaving. Single market gone. Banking authority gone. Galileo gone. Medical agency gone. Labour supply falling. Not enough British vets to control animal imports/ exports. And so on. But a fish will be destroyed instead of eaten. Pity for the fish.

skybluetony176 · Sep 15, 2018

Captain Dart said:

And this is exactly why I’ve always said that the EU’s fisheries policy is mental. It’s quite possibly the most counter intuitive policy in the history of politics.

martcov · Sep 15, 2018

Astute said:
Anything to try and put the Selmayr fiasco into the background.

Have you noticed the difference between the EU and the UK?

If someone high up in the EU is found guilty of something they just say it won't happen again. If someone concerned in the leave side with Brexit dies anything wrong they get it taken all the way.

No, it was found not be illegal in the Selmayr case, but what leave did was illegal. Spot the difference.

skybluetony176 · Sep 15, 2018

martcov said:
That's it then. Good that we are leaving. Single market gone. Banking authority gone. Galileo gone. Medical agency gone. Labour supply falling. Not enough British vets to control animal imports/ exports. And so on. But a fish will be destroyed instead of eaten. Pity for the fish.

We could of course leave the EU and join the EEA. Norway has its own policy on fishing.

martcov · Sep 15, 2018

Astute said:
You mean the leaflet drop to try and get us to remain that cost more than the budget should have been alone?

The leaflet had to be distributed as laid down by the HoL. It was not part of the campaign. The same government duty of responsibility as the pesky government papers warning of the possible effects of a no deal Brexit that you don't like. You don't like these things, but the government has to tell you. If they didn't and these things happen, there would be uproar.

martcov · Sep 15, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
We could of course leave the EU and join the EEA. Norway has its own policy on fishing.

Yes, but freedom of movement. Foreigners. The Brexiteers won't allow that.

Astute · Sep 15, 2018

martcov said:
The opinion was that our devaluations didn't help us much, and that devaluation doesn't help as much as it used to as exporters continue to keep their dollar or euro price. Basically he is saying that it is a waste of time devaluing and that the public are worse off than they would have been. Not exactly saying that we do well out of being able to devalue. The same would apply to the poorer countries you are on about. You claim they will never recover, but the Eurozone is recovering. We will see how much being out on our own helps us when we leave the EU. Will be interesting.

This post proves you don't have a clue.

Astute · Sep 15, 2018

martcov said:
No, it was found not be illegal in the Selmayr case, but what leave did was illegal. Spot the difference.

Yes I do.

Break rules and regulations in the UK and it is illegal. But if you run the EU it isn't.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (5 Viewers)

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