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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (7 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,356
Astute said:
Error no. The poorer countries in the Euro devalue the currency to the advantage of Germany. Germany makes the Euro stronger for the poorer countries.

Are you still trying to deny this?
Click to expand...

No. I am trying to work out if you mean the Euro is too strong because of the Germans, or too weak because of the poorer countries? It is the same as 2002 against the dollar. The poorer countries wanted a strong stable currency to get access to cheap credit to improve their countries. According to you, there are poorer countries queuing up to get in to be exploited by Germany. Why?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,357
Grendel said:
Can you provide links please so I can see the question asked and the poll source and sample size?

Cheers.
Click to expand...

As far as YouGov is concerned, I cannot see a direct question. More think that it was wrong to leave, than say that it was right.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,358
skybluetony176 said:
You just demonstrated again that you don’t understand it. It doesn’t say much because I dumbed it down for you. Can’t really help you if it’s still to complicated for you. I’ll just refer you back to my original advice to you. Probably best if you sit this one out.
Click to expand...
Dumbed it down for me now?

Have a word.

You still haven't come out with the reasoning for bringing it up. You went very quiet and tried muddying the water once I pointed out that it all happened while we were in the EU.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,359
martcov said:
The majority think that leaving was the wrong result.
Click to expand...
The majority think it would be wrong to stay in.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,360
martcov said:
As far as YouGov is concerned, I cannot see a direct question. More think that it was wrong to leave, than say that it was right.
Click to expand...
How did you miss this bit?

However, just because people think Brexit is the wrong decision, it doesn’t necessarily mean they think it should be reversed. They do not. When we ask what people think the government should do about leaving the EU, just over half (53%) think that it should go ahead with Brexit, mostly on its current course (42%) though 11% would prefer a softer Brexit. A fifth (21%) think that the government should call a fresh referendum instead, while 13% would prefer them just to halt Brexit altogether.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,361
Astute said:
Dumbed it down for me now?

Have a word.

You still haven't come out with the reasoning for bringing it up. You went very quiet and tried muddying the water once I pointed out that it all happened while we were in the EU.
Click to expand...

Here’s the link again The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... 3:01pm. Still not changed my mind.

Maybe if you read it enough times the penny will drop. I won’t be holding my breath though.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,362
martcov said:
What do you call conclusive? 52:48? I think they are at least that. I said „majority“, not conclusive majority, such as over 60% which would be conclusive. Who would be mad enough to change direction on, say, a 52:48 vote.?
Click to expand...

Do can you provide some links please?

Cheers.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,363
skybluetony176 said:
Here’s the link again The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... 3:01pm. Still not changed my mind.

Maybe if you read it enough times the penny will drop. I won’t be holding my breath though.
Click to expand...
So what was the point of your post?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,364
Grendel said:
Do can you provide some links please?

Cheers.
Click to expand...
YouGov says the majority still want Brexit to happen. Why else do you think he has stopped posting?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,365
Astute said:
So what was the point of your post?
Click to expand...

The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

Link again. 3:01pm again.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,366
Grendel said:
Do can you provide some links please?

Cheers.
Click to expand...

YouGov is one. It says more think that it was wrong to leave. The Independent has other polls. I’ll look later.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,367
Astute said:
YouGov says the majority still want Brexit to happen. Why else do you think he has stopped posting?
Click to expand...

I stopped posting because I was watching a film with the missus.

Brexit: UK would now vote 54-46 to stay in EU, new poll suggests
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,368
Grendel said:
Do can you provide some links please?

Cheers.
Click to expand...

Latest EU voting intention figures show remain ahead of leave - BMG Research
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,369
Grendel said:
Do can you provide some links please?

Cheers.
Click to expand...

What would be your first preference in a referendum in which the options were remaining in the EU, leaving the EU and accepting a deal along the lines Theresa May has set out, or leaving the EU without a deal?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,370
Astute said:
YouGov says the majority still want Brexit to happen. Why else do you think he has stopped posting?
Click to expand...

Other polls suggest a second vote or an election based on any deal or no deal or remain. But you know that.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,371
Astute said:
YouGov says the majority still want Brexit to happen. Why else do you think he has stopped posting?
Click to expand...

Did you answer my 7;43 post? I may have missed it because I was watching a film. About a nun and a policeman... long story.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,372
Astute said:
YouGov says the majority still want Brexit to happen. Why else do you think he has stopped posting?
Click to expand...

Theee is a difference between wanting it to happen and accepting that it will happen.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 13, 2018
  • #19,373
martcov said:
Latest EU voting intention figures show remain ahead of leave - BMG Research
Click to expand...

BMG lol
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,374
martcov said:
Other polls suggest a second vote or an election based on any deal or no deal or remain. But you know that.
Click to expand...
So how about this comment from YouGov?


However, just because people think Brexit is the wrong decision, it doesn’t necessarily mean they think it should be reversed. They do not. When we ask what people think the government should do about leaving the EU, just over half (53%) think that it should go ahead with Brexit, mostly on its current course (42%) though 11% would prefer a softer Brexit. A fifth (21%) think that the government should call a fresh referendum instead, while 13% would prefer them just to halt Brexit altogether.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,375
martcov said:
Theee is a difference between wanting it to happen and accepting that it will happen.
Click to expand...
Let me get this right.

People that say they still want it to happen isn't people wanting it to happen in your view?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,376
Astute said:
Let me get this right.

People that say they still want it to happen isn't people wanting it to happen in your view?
Click to expand...

No. I am saying most accept that it will probably happen. Even I come under that category. But, I don’t want it to happen.

This is a collection of 34 polls:

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,377
Astute said:
So how about this comment from YouGov?


However, just because people think Brexit is the wrong decision, it doesn’t necessarily mean they think it should be reversed. They do not. When we ask what people think the government should do about leaving the EU, just over half (53%) think that it should go ahead with Brexit, mostly on its current course (42%) though 11% would prefer a softer Brexit. A fifth (21%) think that the government should call a fresh referendum instead, while 13% would prefer them just to halt Brexit altogether.
Click to expand...

53% in this poll. Not conclusive. Other polls say a small majority would vote remain, if asked. A small majority think we made the wrong decision.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,378
Astute said:
Let me get this right.

People that say they still want it to happen isn't people wanting it to happen in your view?
Click to expand...

Do you think a no deal, in the unlikely event that it comes to that, is preferable to remain? The economy is doing well, even with uncertainty, and we have low unemployment whilst in the EU. Biggest problem is distribution of wealth and differences in regional prosperity. Nothing to do with the EU, but which caused Brexit. IMO. People blamed the migrants for the failings of government.

An alternative to the present situation is, according to Moody’s:

No-deal Brexit could tip UK into recession, warns Moody's

Would you take a recession with no guarantee of being any better off after it, as an alternative to the present economic situation? Or vote remain as opposed to no deal in a second referendum?
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,379
Grendel said:
BMG lol
Click to expand...
Rarely matters what the surveys nor experts say really. They get it wrong often enough to have no major credibility imo.

The one poll that mattered has been done. We are leaving the EU...unless some conspire to stop it & risk major constitutional debate & probable disorder, a big rise in far-right popularity, or at least greater antipathy towards politics & politicians.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,380
martcov said:
53% in this poll. Not conclusive. Other polls say a small majority would vote remain, if asked. A small majority think we made the wrong decision.
Click to expand...
Wasn't it you that mentioned YouGov first and then missed this large comment that they had made?

I am surprised that 42% want negotiations to carry on as they are.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,381
martcov said:
Do you think a no deal, in the unlikely event that it comes to that, is preferable to remain? The economy is doing well, even with uncertainty, and we have low unemployment whilst in the EU. Biggest problem is distribution of wealth and differences in regional prosperity. Nothing to do with the EU, but which caused Brexit. IMO. People blamed the migrants for the failings of government.

An alternative to the present situation is, according to Moody’s:

No-deal Brexit could tip UK into recession, warns Moody's

Would you take a recession with no guarantee of being any better off after it, as an alternative to the present economic situation? Or vote remain as opposed to no deal in a second referendum?
Click to expand...
The main word is 'could'

We all know that. We 'could' or 'might' 'if' there is no deal.

Or how about this part of the article?

The ratings agency said it was not a foregone conclusion that Britain’s creditworthiness would be damaged by a no-deal Brexit, should the government take sufficient steps to cushion the blow from leaving without a deal.

So who doesn't want there to be a deal?
 
Last edited: Sep 14, 2018

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,382
SkyblueBazza said:
Rarely matters what the surveys nor experts say really. They get it wrong often enough to have no major credibility imo.

The one poll that mattered has been done. We are leaving the EU...unless some conspire to stop it & risk major constitutional debate & probable disorder, a big rise in far-right popularity, or at least greater antipathy towards politics & politicians.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

It would only happen if there was clear evidence that there is support for it, which we do certainly seem to be moving towards.

I agree though that it would lead to a backlash from certain sections of the population.

And yeah, experts know nothing at all, do they? Let's just discard whatever they say.
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,383
Sick Boy said:
It would only happen if there was clear evidence that there is support for it, which we do certainly seem to be moving towards.

I agree though that it would lead to a backlash from certain sections of the population.

And yeah, experts know nothing at all, do they? Let's just discard whatever they say.
Click to expand...
Not discarded. Just not taken as gospel. These same experts didn't see the credit crunch. They saw the unemployment rate shooting up and house prices crashing if we voted leave. Yet the opposite happened. They said the years of boom and bust were finished.....Just before it all came crashing down.

So no I don't believe every word they say.
 
Reactions: SkyblueBazza
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,384
SkyblueBazza said:
Rarely matters what the surveys nor experts say really. They get it wrong often enough to have no major credibility imo.

The one poll that mattered has been done. We are leaving the EU...unless some conspire to stop it & risk major constitutional debate & probable disorder, a big rise in far-right popularity, or at least greater antipathy towards politics & politicians.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Conspire? A majority thinks Brexit was the wrong decision. That is not a conspiracy.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,385
Astute said:
The main word is 'could'

We all know that. We 'could' or 'might' 'if' there is no deal.

Or how about this part of the article?

The ratings agency said it was not a foregone conclusion that Britain’s creditworthiness would be damaged by a no-deal Brexit, should the government take sufficient steps to cushion the blow from leaving without a deal.

So who doesn't want there to be a deal?
Click to expand...

Yes, there are ifs and buts, but they are not expecting a positive result as best case, just a cushioned disaster. I think there will be a deal. Rees Mogg and co would take a no deal though according to him.

If we had remained, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Life would be going on without this uncertainty. You would be moaning about Juncker and Farage would be insulting MEPs, but life would go on. Business would continue investing. Supply chains would be guaranteed. And, maybe, Parliament would be dealing with the problems of those left behind in the poorer regions- which is being neglected by all the Brexit discussions. What a mess.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,386
Astute said:
Not discarded. Just not taken as gospel. These same experts didn't see the credit crunch. They saw the unemployment rate shooting up and house prices crashing if we voted leave. Yet the opposite happened. They said the years of boom and bust were finished.....Just before it all came crashing down.

So no I don't believe every word they say.
Click to expand...

We haven't even left yet, only then will we see the full impact.

I'm hoping to secure a future of cheap Peroni in the coming days
 
Reactions: martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,387
Sick Boy said:
We haven't even left yet, only then will we see the full impact.

I'm hoping to secure a future of cheap Peroni in the coming days
Click to expand...

My Newcastle is being brewed in Amsterdam and my Strongbow comes from Belgium ( it has for years - nothing to do with Brexit). So, I shall survive. I can get Gin at the duty free - which may have to come back.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,388
martcov said:
Conspire? A majority thinks Brexit was the wrong decision. That is not a conspiracy.
Click to expand...

You do know why the poll you produced is funny don’t you?
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,389
martcov said:
53% in this poll. Not conclusive. Other polls say a small majority would vote remain, if asked. A small majority think we made the wrong decision.
Click to expand...

Yep, makes you wonder why we bother with the tedious process of voting doesn’t it Mart?

Bollox to the democratic process, much easier to commission a few organisations to conduct a poll, take an average and job’s done.

As long as we get the right answer that is.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 14, 2018
  • #19,390
SIR ERNIE said:
Yep, makes you wonder why we bother with the tedious process of voting doesn’t it Mart?

Bollox to the democratic process, much easier to commission a few organisations to conduct a poll, take an average and job’s done.

As long as we get the right answer that is.
Click to expand...

If it appears that there is a clear majority in favour of a second vote, then surely to deny people the vote is anything but democratic?
 
Reactions: martcov
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