The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (6 Viewers)

martcov · Aug 28, 2018

Astute said:
And as the BBC is OK to use ATM here is something else to blame on Brexit

Protesters face off in tense German city

What are you on about now? Could you explain the connection to Brexit?

The only connection I see is the lies. A murder has occurred. The murderers were Iraqi and Syrian.

The story immediately went to 2 murders. The victim was German. Now he was a German Cuban. The people being chased and beaten up are „non whites“. The German Cuban would probably come into that category and may well have been randomly attacked by the mob if he hadn’t been the victim.

The AfD are winding the people up and hope to gain votes in the upcoming state elections.

The story was put out that the victim was, along with others that were stabbed, protecting a woman who was being pestered. That has been refuted by the police.

I believe the police rather than the right wing internet news sources. The police will have to back their story up at the coroner‘s court. The right wing news sources don’t have to prove anything. They just say things. Like Farage, Breitbart, Alex Jones and Trump.

But, you say blame the situation on Brexit.

martcov · Aug 28, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
This happens in the UK? = 'divided nation'

Extremism is everywhere...how it is dealt with is the all important thing. Across Europe various countries have over time pacified extremism or embraced it...but even slapping it down can lead to disaster. Probably consistency in applying principle & law is the key?

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What is happening now in Chemitz is taking a crime and exploiting it for political purposes. A mob of hooligans running through the streets and attacking people of non German appearance is reminiscent of 30s Germany as the Nazis came to power.

Anyone blaming all immigrants for a murder committed by 2 immigrants ( and we don’t know the circumstances yet ), should get their head looked at. Potentially more dangerous is the start of some sort of ethnic persecution. It reminds me of me seeing Paki-Bashing for the first time in 69. People ran through the carnival procession chasing „non whites“ and later in the memorial park. The only reason for attacking „Pakis“ ( the word in favour at the time ) was because they were „non whites“.

People should stand against these thugs - regardless of what they think about refugees. The refugees can be seen as a problem, and some are definitely undesirables, but people giving Hitler salutes and chasing innocents through the streets doesn’t solve anything and is potentially far more dangerous.

martcov · Aug 28, 2018

Astute said:
No. Britain is taking back control if it's own affairs. And you don't like it.

Bollocks. Britain is embarking on an embarrassing and non thought out adventure which potentially loses it influence and therefore control of it’s destiny. Wait til you see Trump’s trade deal for Britain, or how the WTO deals pan out.

martcov · Aug 28, 2018

Astute said:
Read again.

They have wanted to get their land back for many years. Yet now it is all to do with Brexit. Would you like to explain?

Now they have the chance to get it back on favourable terms.

martcov · Aug 28, 2018

dutchman said:
It doesn't only apply to so-called 'refugees' but also to young people born in Germany such as your daughter.

1. it is unconstitutional according to one of the governing parties

2. should it overcome all legal and political hurdles.... it will not happen until my daughter is in her 20s. If my daughter hadn’t stayed on for her A levels ( Abitur), then she may well have opted for service. Civilian service. I can’t imagine her wanting to do military service. Even with conscription in the past, you could opt for civilian service. E.g. helping disabled people or elderly people.

Astute · Aug 28, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Read again. I already have.

So why is it all to do with Brexit when they have been after the same thing for many years?

Astute · Aug 28, 2018

martcov said:
No. I said that AFD is regional. In Chemnitz they are 25% according to the latest polls. In Kiel they got less than 6% at the last state election. I did not say they were not going to win more than a handful of seats in the Bundestag. They were lucky to get over the 5% hurdle in Schleswig-Holstein state elections though.

Says a lot when you have to make things up.

No. You have said several times that AfD are insignificant. But that isn't true.

skybluetony176 · Aug 28, 2018

Astute said:
So why is it all to do with Brexit when they have been after the same thing for many years?

How many times in the last 50 years have they had the backing required from the UN to take this up with The Hague?

Also I never said it has everything to do with Brexit. Brexit clearly has something to do with them getting the result that they haven’t obtained previously thought.

Astute · Aug 28, 2018

martcov said:
What are you on about now? Could you explain the connection to Brexit?

The only connection I see is the lies. A murder has occurred. The murderers were Iraqi and Syrian.

The story immediately went to 2 murders. The victim was German. Now he was a German Cuban. The people being chased and beaten up are „non whites“. The German Cuban would probably come into that category and may well have been randomly attacked by the mob if he hadn’t been the victim.

The AfD are winding the people up and hope to gain votes in the upcoming state elections.

The story was put out that the victim was, along with others that were stabbed, protecting a woman who was being pestered. That has been refuted by the police.

I believe the police rather than the right wing internet news sources. The police will have to back their story up at the coroner‘s court. The right wing news sources don’t have to prove anything. They just say things. Like Farage, Breitbart, Alex Jones and Trump.

But, you say blame the situation on Brexit.

So it is all lies and didn't happen?

Astute · Aug 28, 2018

martcov said:
Bollocks. Britain is embarking on an embarrassing and non thought out adventure which potentially loses it influence and therefore control of it’s destiny. Wait til you see Trump’s trade deal for Britain, or how the WTO deals pan out.

You missed out the first two words of your post.

'Read this'

Astute · Aug 28, 2018

martcov said:
Now they have the chance to get it back on favourable terms.

And without Brexit they wouldn't have a chance but now they have a big chance?

You are deluded.

Astute · Aug 28, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
How many times in the last 50 years have they had the backing required from the UN to take this up with The Hague?

So explain the massive difference that Brexit has made. Because those knowledgeable on the subject don't mention Brexit at all.

As usual it is something mentioned by those pro EU only.

skybluetony176 · Aug 28, 2018

Astute said:
So explain the massive difference that Brexit has made. Because those knowledgeable on the subject don't mention Brexit at all.

As usual it is something mentioned by those pro EU only.

Those knowledgable? Who’s those?

skybluetony176 · Aug 28, 2018

EU members abstain as Britain defeated in UN vote on Chagos Islands

Reading this from the Gaurdian at the time of the vote many EU countries abstained from the vote and 65 countries in total.

And this from someone who you would think is one of those who are knowledgeable “Speaking after the vote Jagdish Koonjul, the Mauritian representative at the UN, said: “I’m elated. The results are beyond my expectations. It’s interesting that the EU didn’t support the UK.“

Reading this General Assembly Adopts Resolution Seeking International Court’s Advisory Opinion on Pre-independence Separation of Chagos Archipelago from Mauritius | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases India didn’t support us either. Still, we’ll be able to dictate a trade deal with India once we’ve left the largest free trade agreement in the world.

martcov · Aug 28, 2018

Astute said:
So it is all lies and didn't happen?

How did you deduce that?

The right wing lie: 2 white Germans were killed by a group of people of various nationalities whilst helping a woman who was being assaulted.

The truth ( as far as has been reported): 1 German Cuban has been murdered and 2 people wounded. The murderers are one Syrian and one Iraqi. The motive is unclear, but they weren’t defending a woman according to the police.

3 people with non white skin have been beaten by a mob. These three people were beaten purely on the basis of skin colour.

The mob was fueled by the lie. The truth is not much better, but the lie brings women and Muslims wanting sex into the picture which increases the anger resulting in innocents being targeted. I am against the lies and their resulting violence. I don’t deny or condone the first crime of murder.

Do you justify the chasing down and beating of non white people because migrants killed someone in circumstances which we don’t yet know?

martcov · Aug 28, 2018

Astute said:
And without Brexit they wouldn't have a chance but now they have a big chance?

You are deluded.

Deluded? Not according to the voting.

martcov · Aug 28, 2018

Astute said:
No. You have said several times that AfD are insignificant. But that isn't true.

I have said repeatedly that they have 12,5%, are not in power and that no one will join a coalition with them. You tell me how significant that is. They are annoying because they exist and therefore the other parties have to try and win voters back. They have influence in that respect, but no power.

Astute · Aug 28, 2018

I blame Brexit. And before the normal suspects...

Food prices to rise by at least five per following a year of extreme weather conditions | This is Money

Astute · Aug 28, 2018

martcov said:
I have said repeatedly that they have 12,5%, are not in power and that no one will join a coalition with them. You tell me how significant that is. They are annoying because they exist and therefore the other parties have to try and win voters back. They have influence in that respect, but no power.

No. You constantly said that they are insignificant. And annoying? So they are on the same level as Juncker and his tax dodges. And on the same level as when the EU breaks their own rules? Because you also described that as annoying.

Astute · Aug 28, 2018

But at least all is well in the EU.

The best thing Germany could do for Europe is quit the single currency – but it won’t | Larry Elliott

martcov · Aug 28, 2018

Astute said:
No. You constantly said that they are insignificant. And annoying? So they are on the same level as Juncker and his tax dodges. And on the same level as when the EU breaks their own rules? Because you also described that as annoying.

12,5% with no Power is not that significant. Juncker‘s tax dodges, if legal, are not as significant as say stashing money illegally in tax havens or taking Russian money for mining projects and then donating it to a political campaign. If the EU is breaking it’s rules, it is annoying.

SkyblueBazza · Aug 28, 2018

Astute said:
But at least all is well in the EU.

The best thing Germany could do for Europe is quit the single currency – but it won’t | Larry Elliott

I think there is a lot of sense in this.

Interesting the thoughts about the currency. Tends to be suggesting a 'new euro'...only introduced much more gradually and properly. Like it should have been in the first place. But no, the EU manderins deemed it should be done apace withput much care or forethought. EU policy seems to relentlessly pursue it's ideal regardless of the consequences

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Astute · Aug 28, 2018

martcov said:
12,5% with no Power is not that significant. Juncker‘s tax dodges, if legal, are not as significant as say stashing money illegally in tax havens or taking Russian money for mining projects and then donating it to a political campaign. If the EU is breaking it’s rules, it is annoying.

So Juncker started off the tax havens. So you see it is OK for him to have done it but not OK for people to use the services that he provided?

Yes the worse thing that the EU could do is only annoying to you. Explains everything.

And the AfD being the largest party in opposition is not that significant? That wasn't what you said when Mucky Merkel was trying to put a coalition together. You didn't want them to be the largest party in opposition at all. But of course it doesn't matter now it has happened.

Astute · Aug 28, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
I think there is a lot of sense in this.

Interesting the thoughts about the currency. Tends to be suggesting a 'new euro'...only introduced much more gradually and properly. Like it should have been in the first place. But no, the EU manderins deemed it should be done apace withput much care or forethought. EU policy seems to relentlessly pursue it's ideal regardless of the consequences

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He is only saying what some of us have been saying. Germany benefits from the Euro being much weaker than what their own currency would be. And the rest suffer from a stronger currency that has to take Germany into account at the same time as the very weak economies.

martcov · Aug 28, 2018

Astute said:
But at least all is well in the EU.

The best thing Germany could do for Europe is quit the single currency – but it won’t | Larry Elliott

Interesting opinion.

martcov · Aug 28, 2018

Astute said:
So Juncker started off the tax havens. So you see it is OK for him to have done it but not OK for people to use the services that he provided?

Yes the worse thing that the EU could do is only annoying to you. Explains everything.

And the AfD being the largest party in opposition is not that significant? That wasn't what you said when Mucky Merkel was trying to put a coalition together. You didn't want them to be the largest party in opposition at all. But of course it doesn't matter now it has happened.

Juncker didn’t start tax havens. We did.

What is the worse thing the EU can do? The AfD is the official opposition by default. No one wanted that. But, they are not in power and not the only opposition party. There are 7 parties in the Bundestag. 4 in the opposition.

SkyblueBazza · Aug 28, 2018

Astute said:
He is only saying what some of us have been saying. Germany benefits from the Euro being much weaker than what their own currency would be. And the rest suffer from a stronger currency that has to take Germany into account at the same time as the very weak economies.

Building up a certain resilience to any EU or euro crisis as-in. But the EU is run for benefit of all members...apparently

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martcov · Aug 28, 2018

Astute said:
He is only saying what some of us have been saying. Germany benefits from the Euro being much weaker than what their own currency would be. And the rest suffer from a stronger currency that has to take Germany into account at the same time as the very weak economies.

The Euro is not weak. Germany was prosperous before the Euro and Italy and Greece had constant currency problems before the Euro. All was not well anyway. But, blame the EU for everything.

SkyblueBazza · Aug 28, 2018

One of the most incredulous things so far is May's suggesting that Hammond in his statement forecasting about damaging public finances was using out of date figures.

Struth! He is your Chancellor Teresa...gwt a grip for crying out loud!!!

OR...is it more smoke, mirrors & falsehoods designed for a purpose???

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Astute · Aug 29, 2018

martcov said:
Interesting opinion.

Just the opinion you will have once it happens and some pro EU person says it. Then you will put the link up saying that Brexit is putting food prices up.

Astute · Aug 29, 2018

martcov said:
Juncker didn’t start tax havens. We did.

What is the worse thing the EU can do? The AfD is the official opposition by default. No one wanted that. But, they are not in power and not the only opposition party. There are 7 parties in the Bundestag. 4 in the opposition.

Oh so annoying

Jean-Claude Juncker blocked EU curbs on tax avoidance, cables show

Jean-Claude Juncker's real scandal is his tax-haven homeland of Luxembourg

Astute · Aug 29, 2018

martcov said:
The Euro is not weak. Germany was prosperous before the Euro and Italy and Greece had constant currency problems before the Euro. All was not well anyway. But, blame the EU for everything.

Exactly. You have finally admitted that I am right and you are wrong.

Correct. The Euro isn't weak. But many countries that use the Euro suffer from a strong currency. And it is quite strong mainly because Germany are in it. Bit if Germany wasn't in the Euro it would go to the level needed by many countries and whatever the Germans used would be much stronger. So many countries suffer so Germany can benefit.

Just exactly what the link from the Guardian says.

Astute · Aug 29, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
One of the most incredulous things so far is May's suggesting that Hammond in his statement forecasting about damaging public finances was using out of date figures.

Struth! He is your Chancellor Teresa...gwt a grip for crying out loud!!!

OR...is it more smoke, mirrors & falsehoods designed for a purpose???

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The British public is being primed for a deal that at least partially keeps.us in the EU.

It has been project fear from the start. The Tories only know how to deal in fear. And it normally wins them elections. And they keep coming out with fear projections.

martcov · Aug 29, 2018

Astute said:
Oh so annoying

Jean-Claude Juncker blocked EU curbs on tax avoidance, cables show

Jean-Claude Juncker's real scandal is his tax-haven homeland of Luxembourg

Yes. It is. You seem also annoyed by it.

martcov · Aug 29, 2018

Astute said:
Exactly. You have finally admitted that I am right and you are wrong.

Correct. The Euro isn't weak. But many countries that use the Euro suffer from a strong currency. And it is quite strong mainly because Germany are in it. Bit if Germany wasn't in the Euro it would go to the level needed by many countries and whatever the Germans used would be much stronger. So many countries suffer so Germany can benefit.

Just exactly what the link from the Guardian says.

That is an opinion. There is no rush to leave the Euro because of the disaster that would follow. Also in the article. Some of the article I agree with, other parts I think are too simplistic.

Mainly the idea that Southern Europe became poorer than Northern Europe because of the Euro. It was poorer before the Eurozone. Also, the Euro has brought savings in currency transactions and stability. This must be factored in.

Simply blaming everything on the Euro is not the answer. Putting up suggestions to improve the situation such as transfers to balance out negative effects or appointing an Eurozone Finance minister would be more constructive.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (6 Viewers)

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