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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (29 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2018
  • #18,481
Astute said:
But Mart says the AfD is nothing in Germany
Click to expand...

Yes. The AFD has 96 seats in Parliament, but they are not in the coalition. The SPD is in the coalition. The SPD claims that forcing people to do service, military or community, is Zwangsarbeit, forced labour, and is against the constitution. Any such idea would first have to be checked against the constitution and to change the constitution you need a two thirds majority ( no 52:48 crap here on important issues ).
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2018
  • #18,482
Astute said:
Is that your way of saying that a pro EU paper is wrong when saying things that could be seen as against the EU?
Click to expand...

What could be seen as against the EU? The Guardian says that the idea is seen as a „populist“ attempt to unite the CDU. The mention of „populist“ infers that the Guardian holds an anti populist opinion.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2018
  • #18,483
dutchman said:
They would almost certainly leave the country rather than serve in the army. Win-Win.
Click to expand...

„They“ as in „us and them“? Personally, I think it is just bs. An idea in the „Sommerloch“ when nothing is going on.

Got a few headlines at the beginning of August, and will be put to bed now. Many refugees are frustrated at the difficulties getting a decent job as they have to wait 6 weeks for the job centre to confirm that there are no German citizens for the job. Usually the job has gone by then, or it is a job which no one wants ( e.g. delivering parcels up flights of stairs in German apartment blocks for little money ). I suspect some would do community service to help their CV and improve their German.
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2018
  • #18,484
martcov said:
„They“ as in „us and them“?
Click to expand...

"They" as in "Those who have no loyalty to Germany" (or any other country as far as I can tell)
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2018
  • #18,485
martcov said:
I have not said anything else, but I wouldn’t be so deluded to say that this proves that the EU always bends rules to the limit.

Brexit is actually attracting more attention to the failings and lies of the Brexiteers than the EU in relation to the size of the U.K. against that of the EU.
Click to expand...
Those who are pro EU like yourself only look at lies on one side and try their best to ignore the lies on the other side and the bending of the rules by those in the EU. So of course that is all you see.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2018
  • #18,486
martcov said:
Yes. The AFD has 96 seats in Parliament, but they are not in the coalition. The SPD is in the coalition. The SPD claims that forcing people to do service, military or community, is Zwangsarbeit, forced labour, and is against the constitution. Any such idea would first have to be checked against the constitution and to change the constitution you need a two thirds majority ( no 52:48 crap here on important issues ).
Click to expand...
The AfD are the largest party in opposition. Yet you make out that they are nothing.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2018
  • #18,487
martcov said:
What could be seen as against the EU? The Guardian says that the idea is seen as a „populist“ attempt to unite the CDU. The mention of „populist“ infers that the Guardian holds an anti populist opinion.
Click to expand...
Not at all. Your normal line when a paper or any media outlet says something you don't like is they are anti EU rants. But you k ow you can't say that against the Guardian. They are as pro EU as you can get.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2018
  • #18,488
martcov said:
„They“ as in „us and them“? Personally, I think it is just bs. An idea in the „Sommerloch“ when nothing is going on.

Got a few headlines at the beginning of August, and will be put to bed now. Many refugees are frustrated at the difficulties getting a decent job as they have to wait 6 weeks for the job centre to confirm that there are no German citizens for the job. Usually the job has gone by then, or it is a job which no one wants ( e.g. delivering parcels up flights of stairs in German apartment blocks for little money ). I suspect some would do community service to help their CV and improve their German.
Click to expand...
Yet you would be spitting feathers if the UK did something similar.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2018
  • #18,489
UK 'threats' over Indian Ocean islands

“The dispute over the Chagos Islands - home to the US military base on Diego Garcia - is being portrayed by some as an indication of Britain's waning influence on the world stage following the Brexit vote.”
 

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2018
  • #18,490
skybluetony176 said:
UK 'threats' over Indian Ocean islands

“The dispute over the Chagos Islands - home to the US military base on Diego Garcia - is being portrayed by some as an indication of Britain's waning influence on the world stage following the Brexit vote.”
Click to expand...

So Britain should abandon control over its own affairs in order to have more influence over other countries' affairs?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2018
  • #18,491
Astute said:
Not at all. Your normal line when a paper or any media outlet says something you don't like is they are anti EU rants. But you k ow you can't say that against the Guardian. They are as pro EU as you can get.
Click to expand...

The papers you quote normally have anti EU rants. I don’t see anything anti EU in your link. I don’t know why you are having a go st me because I cannot see anything anti EU.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2018
  • #18,492
dutchman said:
So Britain should abandon control over its own affairs in order to have more influence over other countries' affairs?
Click to expand...

Have I missed something? Britain is giving up control of it’s own affairs?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2018
  • #18,493
Astute said:
Yet you would be spitting feathers if the UK did something similar.
Click to expand...

Nothing has happened and I haven’t given an opinion on the idea either way. I just said I think that at least some refugees would take it up for a year even if they weren’t forced to.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2018
  • #18,494
Astute said:
The AfD are the largest party in opposition. Yet you make out that they are nothing.
Click to expand...

They are not in power and no one want to be in a coalition with them.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 27, 2018
  • #18,495
dutchman said:
So Britain should abandon control over its own affairs in order to have more influence over other countries' affairs?
Click to expand...

Mauritius just wants to take back control. Something I’m sure all brexiteers will support them on.
 
Reactions: martcov

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,496
martcov said:
Have I missed something?
Click to expand...

Yes, forty-five years of history.
 
Reactions: Astute

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,497
skybluetony176 said:
Mauritius just wants to take back control. Something I’m sure all brexiteers will support them on.
Click to expand...
I wasn't referring to Mauritius but to the suggestion that Britain was 'losing its influence on the world stage since Brexit', as you well know.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,498
martcov said:
The papers you quote normally have anti EU rants. I don’t see anything anti EU in your link. I don’t know why you are having a go st me because I cannot see anything anti EU.
Click to expand...
Talking crap again hey Mart?

Point out where I quote them. I kept away from quoting who you said were anti EU to try and keep things fair. But then the very pro EU ones on here started quoting them when it was something good about the EU. And I pulled you up on it. Remember?

And look back. I said anti EU or something that doesn't look good on the EU. Which is your strategy. Then you try to change the subject instead of having a debate on what it says.

Just like the AfD is nothing in Germany although they are the largest party in opposition. But you try to make out that Farage is massive in the UK. Or we should chase up tax dodgers in the UK but we shouldn't talk about Juncker although his tax dodges cost us countless billions in lost tax revenues and cost countries throughout the EU countless billions. Or the EU isn't bent but the bloke at the top shouldn't be there. And strangely enough he is German. Even you eventually had to admit that it is totally wrong.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,499
martcov said:
Have I missed something? Britain is giving up control of it’s own affairs?
Click to expand...
No. Britain is taking back control if it's own affairs. And you don't like it.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart and dutchman

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,500
martcov said:
Nothing has happened and I haven’t given an opinion on the idea either way. I just said I think that at least some refugees would take it up for a year even if they weren’t forced to.
Click to expand...
Germany is doing what it can to stop them from going there. And is making it as difficult as it can for those who are already there. True?
 
Reactions: dutchman

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,501
martcov said:
Nothing has happened and I haven’t given an opinion on the idea either way. I just said I think that at least some refugees would take it up for a year even if they weren’t forced to.
Click to expand...
It doesn't only apply to so-called 'refugees' but also to young people born in Germany such as your daughter.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart and Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,502
skybluetony176 said:
Mauritius just wants to take back control. Something I’m sure all brexiteers will support them on.
Click to expand...
I agree that something should happen. But not knowing the whole case doesn't make it easy to guess about.

Just like some saying that it is all about Brexit. That is just the normal pro EU bullshit. By the look of it the situation has been going on for many years. But it has become another bit of Brexit bullshit.
 
Reactions: dutchman

dutchman

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,503
martcov said:
They are not in power and no one want to be in a coalition with them.
Click to expand...
But they can still vote on the issue and that may be enough to tilt the result in favour of compulsory conscription (assuming that CDU/CSU doesn't already have a majority on the issue)..
 
Reactions: Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,504
dutchman said:
But they can still vote on the issue and that may be enough to tilt the result in favour of compulsory conscription (assuming that CDU/CSU doesn't already have a majority on the issue)..
Click to expand...
But Mart says that the AfD has no say in Germany and they are nothing
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,505
dutchman said:
I wasn't referring to Mauritius but to the suggestion that Britain was 'losing its influence on the world stage since Brexit', as you well know.
Click to expand...

Well EU countries chose to use their veto when the UN voted on the subject giving Mauritius the opportunity to peruse this through The Hague whereas EU countries usually back each other in such situations. In essence we seem to have lost some automatic allies because ties with the EU are being cut and assumed solitary with a large proportion of the UN is being lost as an effect of that.

Mauritius is a commonwealth country. Does our weakened status mean we can also no longer expect the commonwealth countries support? Mauritius certainly doesn’t think so as they suddenly feel empowered to challenge us after 50 years of lip service disapproval on the issue.

We’re suddenly looking like a loner in the UN.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,506
skybluetony176 said:
Well EU countries chose to use their veto when the UN voted on the subject giving Mauritius the opportunity to peruse this through The Hague whereas EU countries usually back each other in such situations. In essence we seem to have lost some automatic allies because ties with the EU are being cut and assumed solitary with a large proportion of the UN is being lost as an effect of that.

Mauritius is a commonwealth country. Does our weakened status mean we can also no longer expect the commonwealth countries support? Mauritius certainly doesn’t think so as they suddenly feel empowered to challenge us after 50 years of lip service disapproval on the issue.

We’re suddenly looking like a loner in the UN.
Click to expand...
Read again.

They have wanted to get their land back for many years. Yet now it is all to do with Brexit. Would you like to explain?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,507
And as the BBC is OK to use ATM here is something else to blame on Brexit

Protesters face off in tense German city
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,508
Astute said:
But Mart says that the AfD has no say in Germany and they are nothing
Click to expand...

Well according to him they were never going to win more than a handful of seats in last years election.

94 is quite a handful.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,509
skybluetony176 said:
Well EU countries chose to use their veto when the UN voted on the subject giving Mauritius the opportunity to peruse this through The Hague whereas EU countries usually back each other in such situations. In essence we seem to have lost some automatic allies because ties with the EU are being cut and assumed solitary with a large proportion of the UN is being lost as an effect of that.

Mauritius is a commonwealth country. Does our weakened status mean we can also no longer expect the commonwealth countries support? Mauritius certainly doesn’t think so as they suddenly feel empowered to challenge us after 50 years of lip service disapproval on the issue.

We’re suddenly looking like a loner in the UN.
Click to expand...
Undoubtedly Britain has had reducing influence on the world stage. It has been happening for a long long time now. It is called progress...it is inevitable. Like as a child grows up, forms it's own opinions & way in life.
Britain used to bully it's way around the world until the stark realisation that by helping those influenced massively by it to develop, you actually lose influence over them.

As for EU spitefulness with the veto...that is the EU trying to make a bit of a bullying point to thd UK. Wonder how the the EU will vote if/when the disputed (with France) Tromelin Island comes to the fore?

As for Mauritius itself, I have little doubt that as things stand they will want UK/US defence assurances into the bargain as well. That is probably where the so called 'threats' arise.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Astute

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,510
SkyblueBazza said:
Undoubtedly Britain has had reducing influence on the world stage. It has been happening for a long long time now. It is called progress...it is inevitable. Like as a child grows up, forms it's own opinions & way in life.
Britain used to bully it's way around the world until the stark realisation that by helping those influenced massively by it to develop, you actually lose influence over them.

As for EU spitefulness with the veto...that is the EU trying to make a bit of a bullying point to thd UK. Wonder how the the EU will vote if/when the disputed (with France) Tromelin Island comes to the fore?

As for Mauritius itself, I have little doubt that as things stand they will want UK/US defence assurances into the bargain as well. That is probably where the so called 'threats' arise.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

EU spitefulness? It was two countries within the EU who vetoed not a blanket EU veto.

I would have thought that any brexiteer would support Mauritius in taking back control of its sovereign land. Surprised that you’re using words like spiteful to describe any country supporting Mauritius on this. If you can count a veto as support, it’s more a sign of not wanting to get involved whereas previously EU loyalties may have meant that said countries felt honour bound to support the U.K. and now don’t have to get involved with U.K. affairs. Ironically I thought that’s what brexit wanted.

Smacks of double standards all around here. Pointing the finger at Eu countries for not getting involved with U.K. matters in stark contrast to the brexit campaign and then not showing solidarity with another country that just wants what the brexit campaign wants.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,511
Astute said:
Read again.

They have wanted to get their land back for many years. Yet now it is all to do with Brexit. Would you like to explain?
Click to expand...

Read again. I already have.
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,512
skybluetony176 said:
EU spitefulness? It was two countries within the EU who vetoed not a blanket EU veto.

I would have thought that any brexiteer would support Mauritius in taking back control of its sovereign land. Surprised that you’re using words like spiteful to describe any country supporting Mauritius on this. If you can count a veto as support, it’s more a sign of not wanting to get involved whereas previously EU loyalties may have meant that said countries felt honour bound to support the U.K. and now don’t have to get involved with U.K. affairs. Ironically I thought that’s what brexit wanted.

Smacks of double standards all around here. Pointing the finger at Eu countries for not getting involved with U.K. matters in stark contrast to the brexit campaign and then not showing solidarity with another country that just wants what the brexit campaign wants.
Click to expand...

1. I am not a 'Brexiteer'
2. I do support Mauritius on this. And on the Tromelin Island issue too.
3. 2 abstentions not veto's - which is all it took. France WILL probably end up wishing as Tremolin could well be the next push...& Britain is equally spiteful so may well abstain unless there is something in it for Britain!
4. 3=double standards all-round, look...I was going to say 'hard enough' - but 'look' alone suffices...& you will find the EU is as riddled as anywhere else - but everyone on here including you & I have them


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Astute
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,513
SIR ERNIE said:
Well according to him they were never going to win more than a handful of seats in last years election.

94 is quite a handful.
Click to expand...

No. I said that AFD is regional. In Chemnitz they are 25% according to the latest polls. In Kiel they got less than 6% at the last state election. I did not say they were not going to win more than a handful of seats in the Bundestag. They were lucky to get over the 5% hurdle in Schleswig-Holstein state elections though.

Says a lot when you have to make things up.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,514
dutchman said:
Yes, forty-five years of history.
Click to expand...

Explain. How did the UK help shape the Customs Union and Single Market? Why has the UK got „get outs“ on the Euro and Shengen? How come Britain can fight in wars when it wants to without asking the EU? The list goes on. We have a veto on the important matters in the EU and we take part in the evolving of the largest trading bloc in the world, whilst at the same time having a world financial centre. Doesn’t look like we have given up most of our sovereignty to me. Perhaps you could explain the significance of fruit regulations ( I.e. curvature of bananas) in relationship to making major decisions such as the Iraq war?
 
S

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 28, 2018
  • #18,515
SIR ERNIE said:
Well according to him they were never going to win more than a handful of seats in last years election.

94 is quite a handful.
Click to expand...
This happens in the UK? = 'divided nation'

Extremism is everywhere...how it is dealt with is the all important thing. Across Europe various countries have over time pacified extremism or embraced it...but even slapping it down can lead to disaster. Probably consistency in applying principle & law is the key?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
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