They are mentioning though when sacking agency staff. Or a spokesman is.
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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (22 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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They are mentioning though when sacking agency staff. Or a spokesman is.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Yes mentioning. But we all know the real reason why. And you even said it yourself.
I am happy to debate anything with anyone. But twisting the truth isn't debating. We all know things could get difficult. That part is down to the EU. It wasn't down to those who voted leave.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
All that is fair enough Mart. Hope there was no personal offence taken, as none was intended.
Maybe I was perceiving some point about this being EU relevant? After-all the overwhelming majority that voted Brexit would probably never have any intent to vote UKIP IMO.
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
The EU offered us to stay in the CU and SM. May said we will not be doing that. Her, and many others‘, interpretation is that the leavers didn’t vote to pay in and have FOM, both necessary to stay in the SM. So, yes it is the leavers fault that there could be difficulties. Not the EU because their rules existed prior to the Brexit vote, they haven’t invented new rules to make things difficult. We could solve these problems and the Irish border problems by staying in the CU and SM.
Astute
Well-Known Member
You are funny :smuggrin:
So the laws pushed through by the EU that have demonised the diesel engine in cars are not the fault of the EU in any way at all because they existed before the UK voted to leave the EU?
And ues we could have stayed in as you said. But you failed to say that they still wanted us to pay untold billions each year and to still have control over our borders and our waters for fishing. And they still wanted to make our laws for us. So it was leaving in name only.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Or you have people like Tony who voted UKIP and defended them who didn't want to leave the EU.......
„Fault“? The fault lies with the particles and nitrogen dioxide produced by diesel motors. Euro 6 reduces the particles by up to 90%, according to a toxologist at the University here. So, let’s see where the anti diesel hype goes. The whole thing started with car firms manipulating exhaust tests to fool customers. Hardly the fault of the EU. Any government should be protecting the health of it’s citizens. Not an EU demonic idea. The most effected by diesel emissions being the very young, the elderly and asthmatics. They attack the breathing system in the same places as bronchitis.
I didn’t fail to say „pay in“ and FOM. The leavers caused us many problems by rejecting these conditions.
Astute
Well-Known Member
You failed to mention open borders, loss of our fishing rights and still having to follow EU law amongst other things. So in other words exactly where we are now other than in name.
As I said before something had to be done about quality of air in places. But the EU and our government have handled it badly. And the bit I posted on how it happened in Germany explained it all very well. That meant the lawws brought out had to be enforced.
And people are so wirried where this diesel thing is going that they won't risk buying another one. So they keep onto the one they already have. And it pollutes more than the new Euro 6. And our government taxes them much harder than before.
I agree with most of that, but we don’t have open borders as we are not in Schengen.
Astute
Well-Known Member
So you can't come and live here if you have an EU passport?
I don’t know. I presume you can live in the U.K. if you can support yourself. If we leave the EU, then EU citizens lose some rights that were guaranteed by FOM, which is why I hope that my German citizenship comes through before this all - possibly - ends in tears.
I don’t want to be dependent on a resident‘s permit, which may have to be renewed every few years and may be a disadvantage when I am no longer working, after Brexit.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Come on Mart. You know that having an EU passport gives you the right to live in the UK. Otherwise how did you have the right to live in Germany?
People voted leave because hospitals are overworked. People voted leave because they struggle to get a doctors appointment. People voted leave because they struggle to get somewhere to live. People struggle to get their kids into a school near where they live.
This is just a few reasons why people voted leave. But you say that the EU gave us the choice to stay in the common market. Yes as long as we still paid billions each year like we do now and also keep our borders open. And on top of that not even have the very little say on matters that we do now. Something worth taking?
Back to the same old argument yet again. We don't have the infrastructure to cope with those already here. The Tories blame Labour. Labour blames the Tories. But they are both to blame. Many can't bring themselves to admit the point.
I have the right to live and work here at the moment. I am ok with that, but leavers want to take these rights from me by leaving the SM and I am not ok with that.
Many people blame everything on the EU as they are foreign ( not really as we are part of the EU ). Blaming foreigners always unites a certain section of the population - not just in the UK. The US and Russia are playing the same game.
Over 12% of the population here in Germany don’t have a German passport, but I just walked into the dentist and got an appointment. Doctors aren’t great problem in the cities either and are now offering Tele services inside areas.
Astute
Well-Known Member
People who voted leave have not voted leave to take rights away from Mart of Germany. They voted leave because of what is happening with their own lives. You are the last of their worries. You don't live where they do.
As I have said countless times before I didn't vote leave. And I think that I would be better off staying in. But does that mean that I should constantly have a go at those who have been badly affected by what has gone on in the last 20 years?
You admit that there is plenty wrong with the way the EU is run. And we have hardly had a say. But you only ever want to talk about the good of being in the EU and the bad that could happen with us leaving. And as I have said countless times before it is up to the EU on how good or bad it will be for the residents of the EU. And you don't have much faith in them doing what is best either.
Go get your German residency. And I hope for the best in your future. But like I said it isn't all about you.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Try getting one here in a lot of places. Or a doctors appointment. Or treated in hospital where all targets are being missed nearly everywhere. Or finding somewhere to live.
It is very different here to Germany. The German population has hardly moved. But here it has gone up by millions. It isn't perfect here just because it is in Germany.
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
Come on, it's much more fun to scapegoat those from abroad just like has been done for decades.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I think where you are going to live is an expert country at doing that
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
You couldn't make this up - hahaha!
Apart from all of those that Merkel invited to Germany? I'm sure you were complaining about her doing it not so long ago? You are also aware there is a lot of internal EU migration into Germany as well?
Germany on course to accept one million refugees in 2015
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
If Britain had the numbers that Italy has arriving from Africa, I'm sure you and other quitters would be up in arms.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I think over the decades the African migration into the uk is far higher. Italy is a racist country - always has been. Probably the most racist against skin colour in Western Europe.
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
Nice crass generalisation there. A black Italian friend of mine just went back to Parma from Brighton and was pretty desperate to get back there.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
A better quality of life.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
What is happening in their lives is because of the UK government primarily. People moaning about refugees here are not moaning about EU migration. It’s not the main thing here by any means.
Britain has problems caused e.g. by inflated house prices in London, more driven by investors than cheap Polish plumbers. But blame the Poles not the Russian, Chinese or South Korean money. It’s easier.
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
They were his words, not mine.
Racism exists across the world
Diane Abbott’s staff members past and present share the racism they see on a daily basis
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You can quote all you like but to deny Italy is steeped in racial prejudice is actually rather disturbing. Almost as if you’ll turn a blind eye once you become one of them. How does your friend get on if he visits southern Italy?
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
Just like how you've turned a blind eye to hate crime spikes after the Brexit vote?
He lives in central Italy but I think he visited the south the other summer, I will ask him.
There are areas of the north that are overly racist, they vote for La Lega who like you are anti EU. I've actually challenged open bigots there who were ranting about foreigners and gypsies, BTW.
When I was growing up in the 90s the word paki was used by idiots in casual conversation, it always made me feel particularly uncomfortable, especially as my first girlfriend was Punjabi and we'd get the occasional bit of abuse from gangs of white racists.
Once we got approached by a gang of older Indian lads (I was only 13/14) and they asked if we were together, bracing myself to get my head kicked in, I was surprised when they said how happy it made them.
I take it the UK is steeped in deep racism in your eyes then?
Astute
Well-Known Member
We have inflated house.prices all over and all for the same reasons. We don't have enough homes for people to live in because of the open door policy forced upon us by the EU. But you know this and just try to find excuses for.it.
NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
You keep peddling this simplistic tosh.
Astute
Well-Known Member
And you keep defending the EU.
Are you going to give us a way of explaining why my statement is wrong?
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
That is one factor you could argue. But there are so many more, such as councils not building enough housing, and the majority being siphened off by 'investors' turning it into low quality, extortionate privately rented accommodation.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I said earlier how both the Tories and Labour are at fault for not building to replace what they sold off. But most like to only blame one or the other.
And here is the old private rented one I see. They are rented out but are lived in. Becoming rental doesn't take it away from being lived in.
Both Labour and the Tories are at.fault for the NHS not being able to cope. But the problem has been made much wirse by millions of people who have come to live here. But most only want to blame one party.
Open door? Not speculation? Either Eastern Europeans are working for the minimum wage and putting people out of work, or the are inflating house prices by 30%.... but, we have full employment and the country is awash with black money and speculative investments. Something in your argument doesn’t add up.
