The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (12 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · Mar 8, 2018

Grendel said:
Er no because Germany have huge trading advantages in the EU and their exports exceed £400 billion - I think ours is around half that. It in effect controls the European banks and operates a negative interest policy.

It is a typical example of the way Europe operates. It’s chief controller in Germany reaps significant benefits from the fiscal policy and at the same time allows basket case economies to prop themselves up on subvented borrowing rates.

Countries that end up getting a pounding are the middle ground who can’t compete with German dominance and at the same time prop up joke economies who subscribe to the currency.

Of course their export market is double ours. They’ve had 19years of taking advantage of (in your words) a devalued currency. Again in your words we’re benefiting from a devalued currency. What you’re basically saying is that our mistake was not joining the Euro 19 years ago and taking advantage of it like Germany. How much has our manufacturing base declined over the last 19 years? That’s surely damaged our export growth and according to you we can now take advantage of a devalued pound to grow our export market and a consequence of that has to be a growth of the manufacturing sector.

The irony is that no one has ever sold me the idea of joining the euro regardless of how pro euro they are. It’s taken someone anti EU and anti euro to make it attractive.

Grendel · Mar 8, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Of course their export market is double ours. They’ve had 19years of taking advantage of (in your words) a devalued currency. Again in your words we’re benefiting from a devalued currency. What you’re basically saying is that our mistake was not joining the Euro 19 years ago and taking advantage of it like Germany. How much has our manufacturing base declined over the last 19 years? That’s surely damaged our export growth and according to you we can now take advantage of a devalued pound to grow our export market and a consequence of that has to be a growth of the manufacturing sector.

The irony is that no one has ever sold me the idea of joining the euro regardless of how pro euro they are. It’s taken someone anti EU and anti euro to make it attractive.

Are you genuinely this thick or are you on the wind up?

skybluetony176 · Mar 8, 2018

martcov said:
Germany exports high quality goods.

The devaluation of the pound is a two edged sword. Yes initially our export goods are cheaper, but if we need to import materials or parts priced in Euro, then the advantage is soon lost.

Or dollars. All metals for instance are traded in USD$. The London Metal Exchange is one of the leading metal trading centres in the world if not the leading but go look on their website. Everything is quoted in USD$.

skybluetony176 · Mar 8, 2018

Grendel said:
Are you genuinely this thick or are you on the wind up?

You have no understanding of what you’ve said do you? You’ve read something somewhere, assumed you’ve understood it and repeated it thinking you’re clever. Seriously you have just given the best advert ever for the U.K. joining the euro. I’m guessing that the penny has just dropped which is why you won’t answer my question about how much our manufacturing sector has declined over the last 19 years and resorted to name calling instead. Although I guess in a way I am on the wind up because what you’ve said is probably bollocks as usual but if I was (not that I’m inclined to) going to make an argument for joining the Euro I’d probably use your argument for not joining the euro.

wingy · Mar 8, 2018

I don't know the relevance but the Euro was around 67.5p on launch, currently 89p while up around 10 cents against it's launch V the dollar.

fernandopartridge · Mar 8, 2018

fernandopartridge · Mar 8, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
You make it sound like if we “punish the Tories” for doing something that the British people told them to do it will be a victory.

You have argued that the British people didn't tell them to deliver a hard Brexit. Have you changed your mind?

jimmyhillsfanclub · Mar 8, 2018

wingy said:
I don't know the relevance but the Euro was around 67.5p on launch, currently 89p while up around 10 cents against it's launch V the dollar.

Njce snapshot wingy. :emoji_thumbsup:

skybluetony176 · Mar 8, 2018

fernandopartridge said:
You have argued that the British people didn't tell them to deliver a hard Brexit. Have you changed your mind?

I don’t think that technically anyone voted for a hard brexit whether they voted out or not. But if you listen to social media, watch programs like question time and the reaction of the audience it’s obvious that the majority of the out camp are expecting a hard brexit even though technically that’s not we voted for.

So no, I haven’t changed my mind.

Just to add it doesn’t need to be a hard brexit to be a fuck up that we can “punish” the Tory party with. Brexit will be brexit, the EU will shape whatever brexit is as much as the British government will. Very few are going to get what they voted for or believed that they voted for. By that I mean remain voters didn’t vote brexit in any shape and leave voters, especially the hard brexit hard liners (which seems to be the majority of them) won’t get their vision of brexit either. At least we’ll be able to unite in disappointment. Although plenty (as is obvious from this thread as much as anything) will be blaming remainers for not joining the blind positive party that’s going to magically deliver their vision of brexit.

Grendel · Mar 8, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
I don’t think that technically anyone voted for a hard brexit whether they voted out or not. But if you listen to social media, watch programs like question time and the reaction of the audience it’s obvious that the majority of the out camp are expecting a hard brexit even though technically that’s not we voted for.

So no, I haven’t changed my mind.

Just to add it doesn’t need to be a hard brexit to be a fuck up that we can “punish” the Tory party with. Brexit will be brexit, the EU will shape whatever brexit is as much as the British government will. Very few are going to get what they voted for or believed that they voted for. By that I mean remain voters didn’t vote brexit in any shape and leave voters, especially the hard brexit hard liners (which seems to be the majority of them) won’t get their vision of brexit either. At least we’ll be able to unite in disappointment. Although plenty (as is obvious from this thread as much as anything) will be blaming remainers for not joining the blind positive party that’s going to magically deliver their vision of brexit.

You are aware that “the tories” are all dribbling europhiles (other than back benchers) and that the only people who would relish a hard Brexit (such a silly term) are Corbyn and McDonnell who wanted Article 50 triggered the next day with none of this Parliament nonsense and that bloke whose party you voted for.

Sick Boy · Mar 8, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
I don’t think that technically anyone voted for a hard brexit whether they voted out or not. But if you listen to social media, watch programs like question time and the reaction of the audience it’s obvious that the majority of the out camp are expecting a hard brexit even though technically that’s not we voted for.

So no, I haven’t changed my mind.

Just to add it doesn’t need to be a hard brexit to be a fuck up that we can “punish” the Tory party with. Brexit will be brexit, the EU will shape whatever brexit is as much as the British government will. Very few are going to get what they voted for or believed that they voted for. By that I mean remain voters didn’t vote brexit in any shape and leave voters, especially the hard brexit hard liners (which seems to be the majority of them) won’t get their vision of brexit either. At least we’ll be able to unite in disappointment. Although plenty (as is obvious from this thread as much as anything) will be blaming remainers for not joining the blind positive party that’s going to magically deliver their vision of brexit.

Plenty of high profile leavers claimed we would stay in the SM and our place wasn't under threat. It's likely they either:
A. Didn't understand how it worked
B. Thought Britain could get whatever it wanted and stay in due to buying wine and chesee
C. Lied

Either of them is highly likely.

skybluetony176 · Mar 8, 2018

Grendel said:
You are aware that “the tories” are all dribbling europhiles (other than back benchers) and that the only people who would relish a hard Brexit (such a silly term) are Corbyn and McDonnell who wanted Article 50 triggered the next day with none of this Parliament nonsense and that bloke whose party you voted for.

This is Corbyn who only confirmed last week that he wants to stay in the customs union? Do keep up. Don’t sound like hard brexit to me. Certainly not hard enough for the “out means out” “we know what we voted for” clan.

skybluetony176 · Mar 8, 2018

Sick Boy said:
Plenty of high profile leavers claimed we would stay in the SM and our place wasn't under threat. It's likely they either:
A. Didn't understand how it worked
B. Thought Britain could get whatever it wanted and stay in due to buying wine and chesee
C. Lied

Either of them is highly likely.

Boris was one of them, although he seems to have changed his tune since Gove turned on him.

Kingokings204 · Mar 8, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Boris was one of them, although he seems to have changed his tune since Gove turned on him.

Didn’t gove and Johnson make it clear on BBC Andrew Marr it means leaving the single market? Just as did Osborne and clegg and Cameron?

Sick Boy · Mar 8, 2018

Kingokings204 · Mar 8, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
This is Corbyn who only confirmed last week that he wants to stay in the customs union? Do keep up. Don’t sound like hard brexit to me. Certainly not hard enough for the “out means out” “we know what we voted for” clan.

That’s his Labour party policy talking full of blairites that tried to get him removed as leader? Remember? He then had another leadership election and won in fairness to Corbyn.

Corbyn is an old school Labour left winger who has voted against the EU his whole life. It doesn’t fit with his ideology. He is simply towing their party line as leader.

Him and McDonnell are for a hard line left wing Britain. They don’t and have never liked the EU.

skybluetony176 · Mar 8, 2018

Kingokings204 said:
Didn’t gove and Johnson make it clear on BBC Andrew Marr it means leaving the single market? Just as did Osborne and clegg and Cameron?

Boris wrote about his vision of brexit in his column Monday after the referendum and basically described remaining in the single market, free movement of people the lot. It was at this point Gove turned on him and announced he would run in the leadership campaign scuppering Boris’s leadership nomination.

Kingokings204 · Mar 8, 2018

Sick Boy said:

Soundbites. Comments not in their full context such as Norway being an attractive option but we can do better.

I remember the clip played earlier this thread that shows everyone saying we are voting to leave the SM.

Sick Boy · Mar 8, 2018

Grendel said:
You are aware that “the tories” are all dribbling europhiles (other than back benchers) and that the only people who would relish a hard Brexit (such a silly term) are Corbyn and McDonnell who wanted Article 50 triggered the next day with none of this Parliament nonsense and that bloke whose party you voted for.

I've never understood how most of the cabinet and ministers could be overwhelmingly for remain yet a majority of backbenchers were for leave. It's hardly a surprise theyre in a mess.

skybluetony176 · Mar 8, 2018

Kingokings204 said:
That’s his Labour party policy talking full of blairites that tried to get him removed as leader? Remember? He then had another leadership election and won in fairness to Corbyn.

Corbyn is an old school Labour left winger who has voted against the EU his whole life. It doesn’t fit with his ideology. He is simply towing their party line as leader.

Him and McDonnell are for a hard line left wing Britain. They don’t and have never liked the EU.

I think that’s someone who’s realised what a hard brexit will do to the country and has decided to take a common sense attitude towards leaving the EU.

Kingokings204 · Mar 8, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Boris wrote about his vision of brexit in his column Monday after the referendum and basically described remaining in the single market, free movement of people the lot. It was at this point Gove turned on him and announced he would run in the leadership campaign scuppering Boris’s leadership nomination.

Funnily Boris seems to be the only one now in the cabinet sticking up for a proper brexit. I think the cabinet are slowing uniting now by the way behind brexit. It’s clear. We are leaving the SM and CU.

Sick Boy · Mar 8, 2018

Kingokings204 said:
Soundbites. Comments not in their full context such as Norway being an attractive option but we can do better.

I remember the clip played earlier this thread that shows everyone saying we are voting to leave the SM.

Hahah! Are you part of Big Brother?

Sick Boy · Mar 8, 2018

Kingokings204 said:
Funnily Boris seems to be the only one now in the cabinet sticking up for a proper brexit. I think the cabinet are slowing uniting now by the way behind brexit. It’s clear. We are leaving the SM and CU.

If you believe he is a true Brexiteer, you'll believe anything. They're very good at appearing united on the surface but it'll soon come undone.

The only bonus is that the Tories will forever own this mess

skybluetony176 · Mar 8, 2018

Kingokings204 said:
Soundbites. Comments not in their full context such as Norway being an attractive option but we can do better.

I remember the clip played earlier this thread that shows everyone saying we are voting to leave the SM.

If you can find the Cameron Ferage live TV debate somewhere watch it. The majority of it is Cameron explaining to Ferage that Norway are in a half in half out situation. It was more than just a sound bite without context.

skybluetony176 · Mar 8, 2018

Kingokings204 said:
Funnily Boris seems to be the only one now in the cabinet sticking up for a proper brexit. I think the cabinet are slowing uniting now by the way behind brexit. It’s clear. We are leaving the SM and CU.

My point exactly. Although I think the Tories are doing it to try and regain popularity rather than it being a sensible political solution. I suspect it will backfire on them.

I suspect that brexit won’t get voted through Parliament, May will resign, the Tories will have another leadership contest that either Boris or Jacob Rees-Mogg will win much in the same way as May won, another general election will be called, the Tories will fight it on hard brexit, Labour will fight it on remaining in the customs union, I think labour will win with a clear majority and brexit will be renegotiated and voted through with a labour majority, maybe the lib-dems backing it also, Tory rebels backing it and maybe the SNP.

dancers lance · Mar 8, 2018

I don't know what everyone is worrying about? We will sell shit loads of Hillman Imps to Saudi Arabia now they have allowed women to drive, completely restarting our economy.

skybluetony176 · Mar 8, 2018

dancers lance said:
I don't know what everyone is worrying about? We will sell shit loads of Hillman Imps to Saudi Arabia now they have allowed women to drive, completely restarting our economy.

Think it was Hillman hunters that we sold to the Saudi’s not Imps

dancers lance · Mar 8, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Think it was Hillman hunters that we sold to the Saudi’s not Imps

But that was when women couldn't be trusted to drive, I'm thinking the Imp would be more of a "money spinner" with the emerging lady driver market.

clint van damme · Mar 9, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Boris wrote about his vision of brexit in his column Monday after the referendum and basically described remaining in the single market, free movement of people the lot. It was at this point Gove turned on him and announced he would run in the leadership campaign scuppering Boris’s leadership nomination.

David Davis talked about staying in the customs union just before the referendum. To say it was clear Brexit meant leaving the CU is absolute nonsense.

There were about 10 different leave campaign groups all with different agendas.
I asked the question before and no one answered, do people seriously believe that Aaron Banks vision for Brexit is the same as George Galloways?

Deleted member 5849 · Mar 9, 2018

skybluetony176 said:
Think it was Hillman hunters that we sold to the Saudi’s not Imps

It was Iran and it was the Paykan. They've only just stopped making the pickup version.

Kingokings204 · Mar 9, 2018

clint van damme said:
David Davis talked about staying in the customs union just before the referendum. To say it was clear Brexit meant leaving the CU is absolute nonsense.

There were about 10 different leave campaign groups all with different agendas.
I asked the question before and no one answered, do people seriously believe that Aaron Banks vision for Brexit is the same as George Galloways?

Same could be asked of nick cleggs remain version to Jeremy Corbyn?

clint van damme · Mar 9, 2018

Kingokings204 said:
Same could be asked of nick cleggs remain version to Jeremy Corbyn?

and what relevance is that? We're not remaining are we.

It doesn't even make sense, remain was a vote for the status quo, nothing would have changed so far easier to define.

SkyblueBazza · Mar 9, 2018

martcov said:
Holidays?

What fly to the US via Dublin & add an hr or two. This is a favourite German pass time is it? Thought Germans were supposed to be efficient?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

wingy · Mar 9, 2018

Construction sector.
Not a good sign as one of the economic barometers.
Jaguar hesitating over investment, not a good sign for this City .

martcov · Mar 9, 2018

SkyblueBazza said:
What fly to the US via Dublin & add an hr or two. This is a favourite German pass time is it? Thought Germans were supposed to be efficient?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Better ask Aer Lingus about that. It may be something to do with the size/ flight capacity of the planes or the demand for flights to the USA. Whatever. It has nothing to do with cliches about Germans.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (12 Viewers)

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