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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,681
jimmyhillsfanclub said:
I love green energy solutions SB......I even vote Green despite knowing its a waste of my time.....but wind turbines are not green....
Click to expand...

Only messing with ya!
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,682
Sick Boy said:
That would be very unlikely, especially as they'd also have protections thanks to a cetrain treaty. I can't remember the name of it now. The UK is the one responsible for the uncertainty; the government has openly admitted it!!
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Would you like to point it out then as it isn't what Barnier said.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,683
Astute said:
Would you like to point it out then as it isn't what Barnier said.
Click to expand...

No comment on the Tories' use of legal citizens as bargaining chips then?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,684
Astute said:
So you think it is right that we should agree to pay what we don't know what we are paying before we can say to those that have moved to the UK that they will be able to stay?
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We should sign up for what we do know and leave the details for later. As Barnier suggests.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,685
Astute said:
There is always an according to some.

Nothing can touch what Luxembourg has done.
Click to expand...

According to you.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,686
Sick Boy said:
No comment on the Tories' use of legal citizens as bargaining chips then?
Click to expand...
No comment on Barnier using legal citizens as a bargaining chip then?

It is the EU that won't put millions of people's mind at rest until money has been spoken about. But you make out that it is the other way round.

Look at how many billions they need so it can go to the wrong places in Italy.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,687
martcov said:
According to you.
Click to expand...
Still won't have anything said against Luxembourg and Juncker will you?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,688
Astute said:
No comment on Barnier using legal citizens as a bargaining chip then?

It is the EU that won't put millions of people's mind at rest until money has been spoken about. But you make out that it is the other way round.

Look at how many billions they need so it can go to the wrong places in Italy.
Click to expand...

The U.K. could show how great it is compared to the evil EU simply by guaranteeing EU citizens who are here that they will retain all rights that have now. Money is one thing, but citizens rights should be guaranteed as a priority - by both sides.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,689
martcov said:
We should sign up for what we do know and leave the details for later. As Barnier suggests.
Click to expand...
Why?

You won't mind us paying untold billions to the EU as it won't cost you a penny. It is us that live in the UK that will have to pay for it.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,690
martcov said:
The U.K. could show how great it is compared to the evil EU simply by guaranteeing EU citizens who are here that they will retain all rights that have now. Money is one thing, but citizens rights should be guaranteed as a priority - by both sides.
Click to expand...
Have you forgotten that we have already said that everyone can stay. But the EU hasn't said a word about those from the UK living in the EU. And you are one of them.

Is that why you are desperate to get your German citizenship?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,691
Astute said:
Still won't have anything said against Luxembourg and Juncker will you?
Click to expand...

Constantly do have things said against Luxemburg, but if there is going to be a clean up, let’s make it comprehensive and not just that companies like Apple move their cash to Jersey from Luxemburg. Otherwise it seems like you just hate Juncker and the EU and don’t care about tax dodging.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,692
Astute said:
Why?

You won't mind us paying untold billions to the EU as it won't cost you a penny. It is us that live in the UK that will have to pay for it.
Click to expand...

I said treat the two things as different. Which is a bit different to what you say I said.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,693
Astute said:
Have you forgotten that we have already said that everyone can stay. But the EU hasn't said a word about those from the UK living in the EU. And you are one of them.

Is that why you are desperate to get your German citizenship?
Click to expand...

I am desperate to get German citizenship because I don’t like the way things are heading and won’t rely on Davis, Johnson, Gove and co. for my future well being. May doesn’t count. She is just piggy in the middle until she falls.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,694
martcov said:
Constantly do have things said against Luxemburg, but if there is going to be a clean up, let’s make it comprehensive and not just that companies like Apple move their cash to Jersey from Luxemburg. Otherwise it seems like you just hate Juncker and the EU and don’t care about tax dodging.
Click to expand...
This comment shows that you only remember the posts you don't like against the EU and Juncker and don't remember the ones you agree with.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,695
martcov said:
I am desperate to get German citizenship because I don’t like the way things are heading and won’t rely on Davis, Johnson, Gove and co. for my future well being. May doesn’t count. She is just piggy in the middle until she falls.
Click to expand...
And nothing to do with the way the EU is taking it?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,696
martcov said:
I said treat the two things as different. Which is a bit different to what you say I said.
Click to expand...
Treat which two things differently?
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,697
martcov said:
The U.K. could show how great it is compared to the evil EU simply by guaranteeing EU citizens who are here that they will retain all rights that have now. Money is one thing, but citizens rights should be guaranteed as a priority - by both sides.
Click to expand...

The UK wanted to guarantee citizens rights from day one, so already has the moral high ground on this point but on the basis that your EU friends want to use them as bargaining chips then we are absolutely correct to do the same.
 
Reactions: Captain Dart, Kingokings204, Astute and 1 other person
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,698
Astute said:
Treat which two things differently?
Click to expand...

Citizenship and what we owe above membership until we leave and any liabilities that we agreed to.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,699
Astute said:
And nothing to do with the way the EU is taking it?
Click to expand...

No. I am allowed to have dual citizenship because the U.K. is an EU member. Up until now, Germany wants U.K. citizens to apply for citizenship. I contribute to their economy.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,700
SIR ERNIE said:
The UK wanted to guarantee citizens rights from day one, so already has the moral high ground on this point but on the basis that your EU friends want to use them as bargaining chips then we are absolutely correct to do the same.
Click to expand...

No they didn’t. For example the U.K. doesn’t like them bringing non EU spouses into Britain as an EU citizen. That is one right that the U.K. would abolish. It is a bit like saying „we will honour our commitments“ but not being clear what they are. Or saying no EU member country will pay more through us leaving instead of putting it in writing that we will pay our membership until we leave.

Wriggle, wriggle, dodge, dodge. I certainly won’t be putting my future in these bollocks hands. The EU is much more transparent in these negotiations.

Apropos transparent. How is your mate Farage handling the allegations about his affair with his assistant? The English one, not the French one. The one he told that his marriage to a German wasn’t real. ( or maybe he told all affairs the same story ..).
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,701
James Dyson has got it right. Walk away from these non-negotiating time wasters and the important players will come chasing deals.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,702
SIR ERNIE said:
James Dyson has got it right. Walk away from these non-negotiating time wasters and the important players will come chasing deals.
Click to expand...

He also said that's great as it means it will be easier to hire and fire people and cut regulations.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,703
The strong and stable government holding all the cards yet again makes another concession Parliament to get final vote on Brexit deal
 
Reactions: martcov

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,704
Astute said:
No comment on Barnier using legal citizens as a bargaining chip then?

It is the EU that won't put millions of people's mind at rest until money has been spoken about. But you make out that it is the other way round.

Look at how many billions they need so it can go to the wrong places in Italy.
Click to expand...

The EU isn't using them as bargaining chips. You'd make a great spin doctor for the Tories.
 
Reactions: martcov

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,705
martcov said:
Citizenship and what we owe above membership until we leave and any liabilities that we agreed to.
Click to expand...
I finally admit defeat and admit it is a waste of time trying to have a debate with you. You ignore the truth and make your own story up all the time.

It was Juncker who said that we had to come to agreement with a leaving penalty, citizens rights and what will happen with Ireland before we can go onto a trade deal. And all 3 must be signed at the same time.

And yes I called it a penalty. We have agreed up until 2019 what the budget is. But the EU wants much more. So they want much more than we had already agreed.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,706
Sick Boy said:
The EU isn't using them as bargaining chips. You'd make a great spin doctor for the Tories.
Click to expand...
Why can't we agree on a deal for that right now when they say it is all about agreed already?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,707
Sick Boy said:
The EU isn't using them as bargaining chips. You'd make a great spin doctor for the Tories.
Click to expand...

So the Eu have granted permanent residency for all uk citizens in Europe? Missed that one
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,708
Grendel said:
So the Eu have granted permanent residency for all uk citizens in Europe? Missed that one
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That got ignored earlier when I mentioned it as usual.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,709
Grendel said:
So the Eu have granted permanent residency for all uk citizens in Europe? Missed that one
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Why should it when the other side is using their citizens as bargaining chips?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,710
Astute said:
Why can't we agree on a deal for that right now when they say it is all about agreed already?
Click to expand...

I suspect that the EU doesn't really trust the UK at the moment. The government is also seen as being extremely weak and out of its depth.
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,711
Sick Boy said:
I suspect that the EU doesn't really trust the UK at the moment. The government is also seen as being extremely weak and out of its depth.
Click to expand...

I suspect that the UK doesn't really trust the EU at the moment. Germany is struggling to form a government, Spain is in a constitutional crisis, ultra-right parties are on the rise across the continent and we are dealing with a non-entity called Barnier who is extremely weak and out of his depth.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,712
SIR ERNIE said:
I suspect that the UK doesn't really trust the EU at the moment. Germany is struggling to form a government, Spain is in a constitutional crisis, ultra-right parties are on the rise across the continent and we are dealing with a non-entity called Barnier who is extremely weak and out of his depth.
Click to expand...

It's strange that the UK has continually made concessions though, isn't it?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,713
Astute said:
I finally admit defeat and admit it is a waste of time trying to have a debate with you. You ignore the truth and make your own story up all the time.

It was Juncker who said that we had to come to agreement with a leaving penalty, citizens rights and what will happen with Ireland before we can go onto a trade deal. And all 3 must be signed at the same time.

And yes I called it a penalty. We have agreed up until 2019 what the budget is. But the EU wants much more. So they want much more than we had already agreed.
Click to expand...

Really? And where did you get that information? It will take a long time to get to a figure. Barnier has already said we don’t need all the details yet. Juncker isn’t doing the negotiating anyway. We could still sign all three having agreed to a large part of the financial side. No one, not even Barnier, is expecting all details to be finalised before we move on. The EU wants much more than the budget. Yes, because their are projects to be completed and indemnities to be covered. Then there is the UK‘s share of investments to be calculated against any figure. It will take a long time, but why haven’t we put a serious offer on the table knowing these facts? We are just pretending there is nothing apart from, maybe, the current budget. That is bollocks, and whatever the final figure is, it is a lot more than that.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,714
Sick Boy said:
It's strange that the UK has continually made concessions though, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Well it hasn’t and I can assure you that having spoken to leading people in German motor manufacturers they seem far far more concerned than major UK motor manufacturers. That is a 100% fact and you like me as a person who puts the UK first I’m sure finds some reassurance from that.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 13, 2017
  • #8,715
SIR ERNIE said:
I suspect that the UK doesn't really trust the EU at the moment. Germany is struggling to form a government, Spain is in a constitutional crisis, ultra-right parties are on the rise across the continent and we are dealing with a non-entity called Barnier who is extremely weak and out of his depth.
Click to expand...

Germany will form a government though. No party wants another election. Spain is in a constitutional crisis, but is not negotiating with the U.K. and nor is Germany.

Barnier is in a strong position because he has a brief which has been democratically agreed upon. The U.K. has several different versions of what Brexit is and how best to go about achieving it. The PM could vanish into oblivion at any time. There could be an election before we finally leave with a less than certain outcome. The cabinet will no doubt be changed again and there will be more resignations from the negotiating team - based on current form and the number of scandals around in the U.K.. What a mess.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy
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