The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (14 Viewers)

skybluetony176 · Nov 9, 2017

Astute said:
Most people understand it better than you.

So it is a fact that things said by the same people that got the 2008 crash wrong and got what would happen if the UK voted to leave the EU wrong will be right this time?

And some dismiss those that do. Everything I’ve said about the FTSE is out there. Should you wish to educate yourself. Maybe ignorance is bliss and because Dave down the pub says the FTSE is high and it’s all great and down to brexit doesn’t necessarily make it true. The FTSE is high, it is down to brexit but it’s a reaction to a negative effect of the referendum, it’s not or shouldn’t be contrived as a brexit success story. If you want to consider the facts that is. The irony of someone saying everyone understands it better than me has not been missed. Like I said the information is out there.

Astute · Nov 9, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
And some dismiss those that do. Everything I’ve said about the FTSE is out there. Should you wish to educate yourself. Maybe ignorance is bliss and because Dave down the pub says the FTSE is high and it’s all great and down to brexit doesn’t necessarily make it true. The FTSE is high, it is down to brexit but it’s a reaction to a negative effect of the referendum, it’s not or shouldn’t be contrived as a brexit success story. If you want to consider the facts that is. The irony of someone saying everyone understands it better than me has not been missed. Like I said the information is out there.

Yes the information is out there. But you are only interested in half of it. The half that backs your claims up.

So why would I put all my faith in those you mention that got the 2008 crash wrong and got what would happen if we voted leave wrong? When was the last time they got it right? After all the information is out there.

I prefer to listen to both sides and make my mind up. From this I know that nobody knows what will happen. And I said the same after the leave vote. Who was right then? Me or the so called experts?

If you only look for certain answers you will find them. And that is all you do.

skybluetony176 · Nov 9, 2017

Astute said:
Yes the information is out there. But you are only interested in half of it. The half that backs your claims up.

So why would I put all my faith in those you mention that got the 2008 crash wrong and got what would happen if we voted leave wrong? When was the last time they got it right? After all the information is out there.

I prefer to listen to both sides and make my mind up. From this I know that nobody knows what will happen. And I said the same after the leave vote. Who was right then? Me or the so called experts?

If you only look for certain answers you will find them. And that is all you do.

Half the information? Some on here would have you believe that the FTSE has made gains as some sort of brexit miracle that we don’t need to explain. If being aware that the FTSE is almost exclusively made up of companies that trade internationally so when they convert their dollars, euros, yen or whatever ever foreign currency they’ve been trading in abroad back into pounds because the pound has crashed it artificially inflates it’s profits causing their share price to rise, causing the FTSE to rise means I only take notice of half the information I’d say it’s half as much as some take notice of.

The FTSE has made gains, great. What’s the reasoning behind it? The pound crashing. Bad. So you’re left with a positive and a negative, which cancels each other out. If you want to hail the FTSE as a brexit miracle you’re ignoring the reasons why. So you tell me who’s ignoring information to suit? It’s not me. I acknowledge that the FTSE has made gains, I’m not in denial about that like some are as to the falling pound contributing to it. Again the irony doesn’t escape me.

Grendel · Nov 9, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Half the information? Some on here would have you believe that the FTSE has made gains as some sort of brexit miracle that we don’t need to explain. If being aware that the FTSE is almost exclusively made up of companies that trade internationally so when they convert their dollars, euros, yen or whatever ever foreign currency they’ve been trading in abroad back into pounds because the pound has crashed it artificially inflates it’s profits causing their share price to rise, causing the FTSE to rise means I only take notice of half the information I’d say it’s half as much as some take notice of.

The FTSE has made gains, great. What’s the reasoning behind it? The pound crashing. Bad. So you’re left with a positive and a negative, which cancels each other out. If you want to hail the FTSE as a brexit miracle you’re ignoring the reasons why. So you tell me who’s ignoring information to suit? It’s not me. I acknowledge that the FTSE has made gains, I’m not in denial about that like some are as to the falling pound contributing to it. Again the irony doesn’t escape me.

What’s the FTSE 250 made up of Tony?

Astute · Nov 9, 2017

Grendel said:
What’s the FTSE 250 made up of Tony?

Fairy dust that keeps saying we either stay in the EU or we will crash and burn.

Astute · Nov 9, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Half the information? Some on here would have you believe that the FTSE has made gains as some sort of brexit miracle that we don’t need to explain. If being aware that the FTSE is almost exclusively made up of companies that trade internationally so when they convert their dollars, euros, yen or whatever ever foreign currency they’ve been trading in abroad back into pounds because the pound has crashed it artificially inflates it’s profits causing their share price to rise, causing the FTSE to rise means I only take notice of half the information I’d say it’s half as much as some take notice of.

The FTSE has made gains, great. What’s the reasoning behind it? The pound crashing. Bad. So you’re left with a positive and a negative, which cancels each other out. If you want to hail the FTSE as a brexit miracle you’re ignoring the reasons why. So you tell me who’s ignoring information to suit? It’s not me. I acknowledge that the FTSE has made gains, I’m not in denial about that like some are as to the falling pound contributing to it. Again the irony doesn’t escape me.

The only bit you have right is the last bit. A falling pound will strengthen sales for the UK. Yet you try to say that you think leaving the EU will be a catastrophe. But if it was bad it would get better because of a falling pound. But this is the bit you always willingly ignore.

clint van damme · Nov 9, 2017

Astute said:
The only bit you have right is the last bit. A falling pound will strengthen sales for the UK. Yet you try to say that you think leaving the EU will be a catastrophe. But if it was bad it would get better because of a falling pound. But this is the bit you always willingly ignore.

you're correct. And Liam Fox was correct when he predicted this would happen.
He also said that the extra revenue would be invested back into companies in terms of R and D and recruitment. This hasn't happened, companies have held onto the money and that is down to uncertainty over Brexit.

martcov · Nov 9, 2017

Astute said:
The only bit you have right is the last bit. A falling pound will strengthen sales for the UK. Yet you try to say that you think leaving the EU will be a catastrophe. But if it was bad it would get better because of a falling pound. But this is the bit you always willingly ignore.

Well Brexit seems to be benefiting Germany and the USA. DAX and Dow Jones arebteaking all records. Merkel is over the moon. The Germans are pissed off though that the UK is aligning itself with Luxemburg and Malta against EU plans to curb tax havens. I thought that Juncker and Luxemburg were the bad EU guys. Never mind we are the biggest tax haven in the world through our crown dependencies and we are big into money laundering through property in London. No doubt out government should be up there with Juncker being investigated.

Could quantative easing and low interest have something to do with stock markets doing well? Or is it Brexit,,,,, ;-)?

Grendel · Nov 9, 2017

martcov said:
Well Brexit seems to be benefiting Germany and the USA. DAX and Dow Jones arebteaking all records. Merkel is over the moon. The Germans are pissed off though that the UK is aligning itself with Luxemburg and Malta against EU plans to curb tax havens. I thought that Juncker and Luxemburg were the bad EU guys. Never mind we are the biggest tax haven in the world through our crown dependencies and we are big into money laundering through property in London. No doubt out government should be up there with Juncker being investigated.

Could quantative easing and low interest have something to do with stock markets doing well? Or is it Brexit,,,,, ;-)?

What a deranged load of drivel

martcov · Nov 9, 2017

Grendel said:
What a deranged load of drivel

What is not true? Or is it drivel because it doesn’t fit your agenda?

Astute · Nov 9, 2017

martcov said:
Well Brexit seems to be benefiting Germany and the USA. DAX and Dow Jones arebteaking all records. Merkel is over the moon. The Germans are pissed off though that the UK is aligning itself with Luxemburg and Malta against EU plans to curb tax havens. I thought that Juncker and Luxemburg were the bad EU guys. Never mind we are the biggest tax haven in the world through our crown dependencies and we are big into money laundering through property in London. No doubt out government should be up there with Juncker being investigated.

Could quantative easing and low interest have something to do with stock markets doing well? Or is it Brexit,,,,, ;-)?

Yes Mart. OK Mart. Whatever you say Mart.

The money markets always move. We have been moving down against the dollar for years. Shall we blame it all on Brexit?

Astute · Nov 9, 2017

Grendel said:
What a deranged load of drivel

Leave him alone. His pro EU rants can be funny and cheer me up.

Astute · Nov 9, 2017

martcov said:
What is not true? Or is it drivel because it doesn’t fit your agenda?

You are just chatting shit.

skybluetony176 · Nov 9, 2017

Astute said:
The only bit you have right is the last bit. A falling pound will strengthen sales for the UK. Yet you try to say that you think leaving the EU will be a catastrophe. But if it was bad it would get better because of a falling pound. But this is the bit you always willingly ignore.

A falling pound can make UK exports look attractive, which is what think you’re trying to say and pound to the dollar or any other currency that is correct. However if you’re a UK manufacturer and the product you make relies on raw materials that are imported and traded in dollars such as metal your raw material costs have just gone up in pounds. So in the interest of turning a profit you have to increase your selling price in pounds. One cancels the other out. Especially when you start factoring in things like energy costs, transportation costs etc.

Then there’s your worker who’s cost of living is going up because of the weak pound. Do you help them out with wage increases or do you follow what seems to be the fashion and file that under their problem? You do realise that the cost of living rising and the fall in expendable income for joe public are connected don’t you? And a falling pound has its part to play in that. Again, who’s only giving half the picture here?

martcov · Nov 9, 2017

Astute said:
You are just chatting shit.

Which part? The bit about us aligning with your mate Juncker‘s Luxemburg? Our tax havens? We invented them to screw Napoleon. See Jersey. Or other factors which help the stock markets?

martcov · Nov 9, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
A falling pound can make UK exports look attractive, which is what think you’re trying to say and pound to the dollar or any other currency that is correct. However if you’re a UK manufacturer and the product you make relies on raw materials that are imported and traded in dollars such as metal your raw material costs have just gone up in pounds. So in the interest of turning a profit you have to increase your selling price in pounds. One cancels the other out. Especially when you start factoring in things like energy costs, transportation costs etc.

Then there’s your worker who’s cost of living is going up because of the weak pound. Do you help them out with wage increases or do you follow what seems to be the fashion and file that under their problem? You do realise that the cost of living rising and the fall in expendable income for joe public are connected don’t you? And a falling pound has its part to play in that. Again, who’s only giving half the picture here?

As per usual.

British wages are supposedly increasing in some areas by 2% against 3% inflation. My employers union is still negotiating with the trade union, but have advised us to pay our staff 3% extra voluntarily until the deal has been completed. Inflation is much less than 2% here. As a comparison.

Grendel · Nov 9, 2017

martcov said:
What is not true? Or is it drivel because it doesn’t fit your agenda?

Ok let’s begin with:

Is Luxembourg in the EU?

skybluetony176 · Nov 9, 2017

martcov said:
As per usual.

British wages are supposedly increasing in some areas by 2% against 3% inflation. My employers union is still negotiating with the trade union, but have advised us to pay our staff 3% extra voluntarily until the deal has been completed. Inflation is much less than 2% here. As a comparison.

Disposable income has fell by an average of 2% in the UK during 2017. That’s the biggest decline in six years and with families being hardest hit.

martcov · Nov 9, 2017

Grendel said:
Ok let’s begin with:

Is Luxembourg in the EU?

Yes. Next.

Grendel · Nov 9, 2017

martcov said:
Yes. Next.

So how can it be a tax haven within an organisation that opposes such institutions.

That’s no difference than the Uk and it’s crown dependencies is it?

Luxembourg is the EU equivalent isn’t it?

martcov · Nov 9, 2017

Grendel said:
So how can it be a tax haven within an organisation that opposes such institutions.

That’s no difference than the Uk and it’s crown dependencies is it?

Luxembourg is the EU equivalent isn’t it?

We’ve had a discussion about that. Juncker is the bad guy because Luxemburg is doing the same trick as our dependences.

Now that Juncker is going, he wants the EU to have an EU finance minister and a cohesive tax system without countries like Luxemburg, Malta and, non EU paradise islands acting as tax havens.

I used to be a director in a Jersey company, but Jersey was put über pressure by the EU after Blair made concessions. My pension fund was moved by the the Bank to the aisle of Man which carried on as before.

I got out quickly.

Grendel · Nov 9, 2017

martcov said:
We’ve had a discussion about that. Juncker is the bad guy because Luxemburg is doing the same trick as our dependences.

Now that Juncker is going, he wants the EU to have an EU finance minister and a cohesive tax system without countries like Luxemburg, Malta and, non EU paradise islands acting as tax havens.

I used to be a director in a Jersey company, but Jersey was put über pressure by the EU after Blair made concessions. My pension fund was moved by the the Bank to the aisle of Man which carried on as before.

I got out quickly.

So no other Eu individuals or companies take advantage of the Luxembourg tax status?

Astute · Nov 10, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
A falling pound can make UK exports look attractive, which is what think you’re trying to say and pound to the dollar or any other currency that is correct. However if you’re a UK manufacturer and the product you make relies on raw materials that are imported and traded in dollars such as metal your raw material costs have just gone up in pounds. So in the interest of turning a profit you have to increase your selling price in pounds. One cancels the other out. Especially when you start factoring in things like energy costs, transportation costs etc.

Then there’s your worker who’s cost of living is going up because of the weak pound. Do you help them out with wage increases or do you follow what seems to be the fashion and file that under their problem? You do realise that the cost of living rising and the fall in expendable income for joe public are connected don’t you? And a falling pound has its part to play in that. Again, who’s only giving half the picture here?

Why are you so desperate to peddle your pro EU rubbish?

Raw materials won't cost much more. WTO rules are.a 2% tariff. And that is if we can't make them here and don't get trade deals.

Look attractive? People want to buy things from the UK. We.have quality manufacturing.

And Tone.....you blame the Brexit vote for people having less disposable income. This has been happening for nearly 10 years. Half the story?

Astute · Nov 10, 2017

martcov said:
Which part? The bit about us aligning with your mate Juncker‘s Luxemburg? Our tax havens? We invented them to screw Napoleon. See Jersey. Or other factors which help the stock markets?

Was wondering how long it would take you to defend Junckers tax fraud.

Was Napoleon about when we were led into the EU?

Astute · Nov 10, 2017

martcov said:
As per usual.

British wages are supposedly increasing in some areas by 2% against 3% inflation. My employers union is still negotiating with the trade union, but have advised us to pay our staff 3% extra voluntarily until the deal has been completed. Inflation is much less than 2% here. As a comparison.

Inflation has been between 1.5% and 2.2% in Germany this year.

But would you like to let us know what the base rate is in the Euro counties is? Yes it is even more artificially low than in the UK. Bank deposit rates are -0.4% and the base rate is 0%. And they can't put it up because most Euro countries are in the shit. So Germany very much benefits frim this.

You say that you are told that you should give a 3% raise. If everywhere in Germany did the inflation rate would go up. Higher labour charges = prices go up. Prices go up = inflation goes up.

Are you trying to give me financial lessons? I am an investor. I am always willing to learn. I have been an investor for about 25 years so I know how financial markets and fiscal policies work. I know the difference that they make to aggregate demands. I know how government spending and the tax policies they bring upon us affect the macroeconomic conditions that determine employment, inflation and economic growth and development.

The UK has been using a contractual fiscal policy for years. So has the EU. It is done to keep inflation down. This includes low wage increases. It has a high risk of job losses. But we have gained employment. It had to be done after your experts got it so wrong and the banks crashed. We are now coming out of a contractual fiscal policy with base rate rises. This will fuel inflation. Pay rises go up. People have more money to spend. They buy more. This is known as expansionary fiscal policies. Tax can go up. More money to spend on services needed. Even more employment is made. But we don't need higher employment.

So yes please Mart. I want financial lessons off you on fiscal policies as I am always willing to learn. And you always tell me that I am wrong.

Astute · Nov 10, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Disposable income has fell by an average of 2% in the UK during 2017. That’s the biggest decline in six years and with families being hardest hit.

Biggest fall in 6 years?

So you admit that it was worse before Brexit was even thought about?

Astute · Nov 10, 2017

martcov said:
We’ve had a discussion about that. Juncker is the bad guy because Luxemburg is doing the same trick as our dependences.

Now that Juncker is going, he wants the EU to have an EU finance minister and a cohesive tax system without countries like Luxemburg, Malta and, non EU paradise islands acting as tax havens.

I used to be a director in a Jersey company, but Jersey was put über pressure by the EU after Blair made concessions. My pension fund was moved by the the Bank to the aisle of Man which carried on as before.

I got out quickly.

Make your mind up. You normally say that it isn't down to Juncker to decide what happens.

What he wants is one person steering the ship EU enterprise. He has said so himself. And that person would have the right to go into EU countries and take over their fiscal policies. It is much more than just an EU finance minister.

But you either can't or don't want to see the truth.

Sick Boy · Nov 10, 2017

Astute's true colours coming out once again hahaha

martcov · Nov 10, 2017

Grendel said:
So no other Eu individuals or companies take advantage of the Luxembourg tax status?

You haven’t been following the news or our discussion.

martcov · Nov 10, 2017

Astute said:
Was wondering how long it would take you to defend Junckers tax fraud.

Was Napoleon about when we were led into the EU?

No, but he was around when we created our tax haven. The idea of a tax haven has been around for a long time. I hope the EU stops or at least reduces the number of tax havens. Pity the U.K. is on the same side as Luxemburg and Malta on this.

Astute · Nov 10, 2017

Sick Boy said:
Astute's true colours coming out once again hahaha

My true colours because I noticed someone contradicting themself?

martcov · Nov 10, 2017

Astute said:
Inflation has been between 1.5% and 2.2% in Germany this year.

But would you like to let us know what the base rate is in the Euro counties is? Yes it is even more artificially low than in the UK. Bank deposit rates are -0.4% and the base rate is 0%. And they can't put it up because most Euro countries are in the shit. So Germany very much benefits frim this.

You say that you are told that you should give a 3% raise. If everywhere in Germany did the inflation rate would go up. Higher labour charges = prices go up. Prices go up = inflation goes up.

Are you trying to give me financial lessons? I am an investor. I am always willing to learn. I have been an investor for about 25 years so I know how financial markets and fiscal policies work. I know the difference that they make to aggregate demands. I know how government spending and the tax policies they bring upon us affect the macroeconomic conditions that determine employment, inflation and economic growth and development.

The UK has been using a contractual fiscal policy for years. So has the EU. It is done to keep inflation down. This includes low wage increases. It has a high risk of job losses. But we have gained employment. It had to be done after your experts got it so wrong and the banks crashed. We are now coming out of a contractual fiscal policy with base rate rises. This will fuel inflation. Pay rises go up. People have more money to spend. They buy more. This is known as expansionary fiscal policies. Tax can go up. More money to spend on services needed. Even more employment is made. But we don't need higher employment.

So yes please Mart. I want financial lessons off you on fiscal policies as I am always willing to learn. And you always tell me that I am wrong.

I was reporting a fact, not giving you a lesson. People are talking about the stock market in the U.K. as if it is the only one doing well. The implication being that Brexit is great.

There is money being pumped in or has been. At the same time interest rates have been kept low. This has a positive effect on the stock markets and on demand.

Retail sales in Germany grew by 3% this year - the 8 th year in a row that there has been an increase.

The target for inflation is 2%. If it gets above that, the ECB will raise rates.

GSP is also around 2% which allows for wage to an extent rises without causing problems.

There is pressure to pay more than inflation especially in the cities where accomodation is very expensive.

Astute · Nov 10, 2017

martcov said:
No, but he was around when we created our tax haven. The idea of a tax haven has been around for a long time. I hope the EU stops or at least reduces the number of tax havens. Pity the U.K. is on the same side as Luxemburg and Malta on this.

Thanks for the laugh.

So what is this tax dodge that you say about?

Luxembourg got rich from the tax dodge alone that Juncker brought in. The damage has been done. But now a few on here try to make him out to
be a hero for wanting to stop tax dodges like he started.

martcov · Nov 10, 2017

Astute said:
Was wondering how long it would take you to defend Junckers tax fraud.

Was Napoleon about when we were led into the EU?

Where have I defended Juncker‘s - alleged - tax fraud? I pointed out that we have been allowing the same thing in our dependencies and money laundering through property in London for years, and are now, along with Luxemburg and Malta trying to water down EU efforts against this sort of thing. No doubt you are raging about U.K., Isle of Man etc. involvement in tax havens. Or do you think it is just the EU and as soon as we are out everything will be rosy?

martcov · Nov 10, 2017

Astute said:
Thanks for the laugh.

So what is this tax dodge that you say about?

Luxembourg got rich from the tax dodge alone that Juncker brought in. The damage has been done. But now a few on here try to make him out to
be a hero for wanting to stop tax dodges like he started.

Juncker is not standing again. The Eurozone needs a finance minister and a coordinated fiscal policy. Countries ubdercutting each other with tax rates is damaging economies and costing people money by higher taxes as a result of tax being paid in countries where it was not earnt.

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (14 Viewers)

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

Remain

Leave

Undecided

Not registered or not intention to vote

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Super Moderator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency