The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (16 Viewers)

shmmeee · Sep 5, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
But that's an issue with the teaching approaches, rather than the subjects. There's a lot of inverted snobbery about certain subjects, and it usually stems from a lack of understanding.

Not really. Every History teacher has given subject matter they have to teach critical thinking through. If the subject didn’t restrict critical thinking to historical subjects but allowed its use everywhere (by allowed I mean left enough time for after all the compulsory stuff was done), I think you’d see better engagement.

Though to be honest I’ve been against subjects in general for a while as it seems a bad teacher or topic can turn kids off mentally from an entire subject and the compartmentalise too much and don’t realise how much crossover there is between subjects. Much harder to find good renaissance man style teachers to teach a mixed approach well though.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Sep 5, 2020

shmmeee said:
Fact is though to a lot of kids it’s just boring memorisation of dates. Same in Computimg which if taught well teaches information literacy, but that’s not the main focus.

A wider critical thinking subject that have teachers freedom to tailor the subject matter to their students interests, and isn’t constantly interferes with by politicians insisting we all learn about X, would be good.

I was pretty good at history, but very rarely used exact dates in exams. As long as I knew the chronology of events that was enough for me and the important thing - it lets you see how things develop, possible causality etc so you focus on whats happening and why rather than when.

A history teacher that focuses on memorising dates IMO is underselling the value of their subject and not selling it's merits very well at all and more likely to be putting people off than engaging them.

shmmeee · Sep 5, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I was pretty good at history, but very rarely used exact dates in exams. As long as I knew the chronology of events that was enough for me and the important thing - it lets you see how things develop, possible causality etc so you focus on whats happening and why rather than when.

A history teacher that focuses on memorising dates IMO is underselling the value of their subject and not selling it's merits very well at all and more likely to be putting people off than engaging them.

I hated History. Found it boring and irrelevant and always been more focused on what’s coming than what’s past. Also a little teenage rebellion against my history lecturer mother . I had the same issues with Biology which seemed to be all about memorising names and diagrams and no thinking. Obviously as an adult I know better but we aren’t talking about teaching adults.

I’d have loved a critical thinking or even just philosophy course however.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 5, 2020

shmmeee said:
Not really. Every History teacher has given subject matter they have to teach critical thinking through. If the subject didn’t restrict critical thinking to historical subjects but allowed its use everywhere (by allowed I mean left enough time for after all the compulsory stuff was done), I think you’d see better engagement.

Though to be honest I’ve been against subjects in general for a while as it seems a bad teacher or topic can turn kids off mentally from an entire subject and the compartmentalise too much and don’t realise how much crossover there is between subjects. Much harder to find good renaissance man style teachers to teach a mixed approach well though.

When I wax lyrical about history in my science lessons kids often ask ‘so why not teach history then’, to which you can easily point to lots of examples of how scientific progress has been influenced by the state of society at a given time.

Most take for granted that what they learn in Year 7 was at one point cutting edge and controversial.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 5, 2020

shmmeee said:
I hated History. Found it boring and irrelevant and always been more focused on what’s coming than what’s past. Also a little teenage rebellion against my history lecturer mother . I had the same issues with Biology which seemed to be all about memorising names and diagrams and no thinking. Obviously as an adult I know better but we aren’t talking about teaching adults.

I’d have loved a critical thinking or even just philosophy course however.

Ha, I did some biology at uni. Stopped after one module alone had us memorise pathways and enzyme names for months on end. Didn’t envy the medics one bit!

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Sep 5, 2020

shmmeee said:
I hated History. Found it boring and irrelevant and always been more focused on what’s coming than what’s past. Also a little teenage rebellion against my history lecturer mother . I had the same issues with Biology which seemed to be all about memorising names and diagrams and no thinking. Obviously as an adult I know better but we aren’t talking about teaching adults.

I’d have loved a critical thinking or even just philosophy course however.

I'm far more interested in the future, but I find looking to the past is a decent way of predicting the future in terms of general behaviour etc.

I had that issue with chemistry more - memorising periodic table, atomic numbers, mass, electrons etc. Couldn't ever find a way to make it anything more than a memory test. Could never do chemical equations either.

I agree teaching kids is more likely to be a challenge because you need to try and make it relate to what they're interested in, but the generational gap between teacher/pupil makes that nigh on impossible.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 5, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I'm far more interested in the future, but I find looking to the past is a decent way of predicting the future in terms of general behaviour etc.

I had that issue with chemistry more - memorising periodic table, atomic numbers, mass, electrons etc. Couldn't ever find a way to make it anything more than a memory test. Could never do chemical equations either.

I agree teaching kids is more likely to be a challenge because you need to try and make it relate to what they're interested in, but the generational gap between teacher/pupil makes that nigh on impossible.

I found maths most frustrating because teachers could never seem to empathise with not understanding it. All the while you have others racing ahead finding it easy. As students are given it in exams there is no need to memorise the PT, but they do need teaching how to use it. The problem in all subjects I guess is that how you were taught it guides your perception of it.

I hate art, but it’s mostly because teachers never told you how to improve and made fun of bad pieces.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Sep 5, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I found maths most frustrating because teachers could never seem to empathise with not understanding it. All the while you have others racing ahead finding it easy. As students are given it in exams there is no need to memorise the PT, but they do need teaching how to use it. The problem in all subjects I guess is that how you were taught it guides your perception of it.

I hate art, but it’s mostly because teachers never told you how to improve and made fun of bad pieces.

I was OK with maths until A level when I could understand the equations but never quite how to apply them in the questions. I could never work out if I should integrate or work out the derivative. Didn't help that my best mate I sat next to was a maths genius who completed everything in 10 minutes and then started doing uni-level stuff. And like you say he couldn't understand why I didn't get it. He tried loads of times to explain it to me but it never helped.

Should've done A level history rather than maths but I felt I should have a bit more varied subject matter than mainly humanities.

I agree with art. Always ended up frustrated it was never as good as I wanted it to be and I always feel something should have some sort of practical use so doing stuff just because I wanted to seemed rather self indulgent rather than useful. Felt the same about music.

You had the same thing with art about failure to understand. Things like Art Attack used to annoy me with the 'anyone can draw'. It's like saying anyone can do quadratic equations. Some people just aren't built to do some things.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 5, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I was OK with maths until A level when I could understand the equations but never quite how to apply them in the questions. I could never work out if I should integrate or work out the derivative. Didn't help that my best mate I sat next to was a maths genius who completed everything in 10 minutes and then started doing uni-level stuff. And like you say he couldn't understand why I didn't get it. He tried loads of times to explain it to me but it never helped.

Should've done A level history rather than maths but I felt I should have a bit more varied subject matter than mainly humanities.

I agree with art. Always ended up frustrated it was never as good as I wanted it to be and I always feel something should have some sort of practical use so doing stuff just because I wanted to seemed rather self indulgent rather than useful. Felt the same about music.

You had the same thing with art about failure to understand. Things like Art Attack used to annoy me with the 'anyone can draw'. It's like saying anyone can do quadratic equations. Some people just aren't built to do some things.

We had some compulsory maths seminars at uni where the unsympathetic lecturer would just say 'it's easy, just do the Taylor expansion', to which the reply 'I don't know what that is' didn't get you very far. The biggest challenge a teacher has as an expert in their area is to understand what it's like to find it difficult or to learn it for the first time. That's assuming also that the people you're teaching want to learn in the first place.

skybluetony176 · Sep 6, 2020

Ouch!

clint van damme · Sep 6, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
Ouch!

I heard a quote yesterday from some Aussie who said something along the lines of - "the UK doesn't want Tony Abbott as their trade envoy, they want the person who managed to offload him as their trade envoy'.

skybluetony176 · Sep 6, 2020

clint van damme said:
I heard a quote yesterday from some Aussie who said something along the lines of - "the UK doesn't want Tony Abbott as their trade envoy, they want the person who managed to offload him as their trade envoy'.

There’s been a few remarks from Australian commentators. One I heard the other day was if Tony Abbott is seen as the answer the U.K. are in trouble. Basically the Aussies are pissing themselves at us.

shmmeee · Sep 6, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
There’s been a few remarks from Australian commentators. One I heard the other day was if Tony Abbott is seen as the answer the U.K. are in trouble. Basically the Aussies are pissing themselves at us.

Weve been the world laughing stock for about four years now. Now I know how the Yanks feel.

Brighton Sky Blue · Sep 6, 2020

shmmeee said:
Weve been the world laughing stock for about four years now. Now I know how the Yanks feel.

Imagine wanting to copy their society

fernandopartridge · Sep 6, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
There’s been a few remarks from Australian commentators. One I heard the other day was if Tony Abbott is seen as the answer the U.K. are in trouble. Basically the Aussies are pissing themselves at us.

The entire world is. The utterly facile positions of the hard Brexiteers are a national embarrassment

Sick Boy · Sep 6, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
The entire world is. The utterly facile positions of the hard Brexiteers are a national embarrassment

Unfortunately they’re likely to get their own way, a stark contrast to what was promised in 2016.

Skybluefaz · Sep 7, 2020

Deleted member 5849 · Sep 7, 2020

Brexit: Ministers plan laws overriding part of withdrawal deal

No 10 calls it a "standby" in case EU trade talks fail, as the PM issues an October deadline for a deal.

www.bbc.co.uk

wingy · Sep 7, 2020

Just a minor bit of tidying up.

shmmeee · Sep 7, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
Brexit: Ministers plan laws overriding part of withdrawal deal

No 10 calls it a "standby" in case EU trade talks fail, as the PM issues an October deadline for a deal.

www.bbc.co.uk

Quick check in with the “there will be a deal” folks: how you feeling right now?

Philosoraptor · Sep 7, 2020

Excellent to see the democratic process of leaving the EU as given to Parliament by the Public finally taking its course.

Philosoraptor · Sep 7, 2020

I think the jury is still out at the moment of when exactly to get a white van and move to the Irish Border.

Going to be serious rich pickings.

wingy · Sep 7, 2020

Philosorapter said:
I think the jury is still out at the moment of when exactly to get a white van and move to the Irish Border.

Going to be serious rich pickings.

You won't get one in the current era due to the corona boom.
Where do we import them from anyway?

Philosoraptor · Sep 7, 2020

Oh, anywhere if you are in Northern Ireland. I'm expecting that border to get busier than Dover/Calais with no checks.

wingy · Sep 7, 2020

Philosorapter said:
Oh, anywhere if you are in Northern Ireland. I'm expecting that border to get busier than Dover/Calais with no checks.

Maybe Jag could start manufacturing
Where are LDV these day's?

clint van damme · Sep 7, 2020

Philosorapter said:
Oh, anywhere if you are in Northern Ireland. I'm expecting that border to get busier than Dover/Calais with no checks.

No checks??

wingy · Sep 7, 2020

Philosorapter said:
Oh, anywhere if you are in Northern Ireland. I'm expecting that border to get busier than Dover/Calais with no checks.

I've got the Irish passport , we're on !

wingy · Sep 7, 2020

clint van damme said:
No checks??

Maybe a few relating to livestock and agri.

Philosoraptor · Sep 7, 2020

wingy said:
I've got the Irish passport , we're on !

Snap

Sick Boy · Sep 7, 2020

The UK is doing it’s best to appear as trustworthy and reliable as possible to it’s future potential trading partners.

wingy · Sep 7, 2020

Sick Boy said:
The UK is doing it’s best to appear as trustworthy and reliable as possible to it’s future potential trading partners.

Trumpian to the core .
God bless this nation, Coming!

wingy · Sep 7, 2020

Sick Boy said:
The UK is doing it’s best to appear as trustworthy and reliable as possible to it’s future potential trading partners.

Oven ready.
Just wait till they fold.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Sep 7, 2020

Philosorapter said:
Oh, anywhere if you are in Northern Ireland. I'm expecting that border to get busier than Dover/Calais with no checks.

You can just take a rubber dinghy between Dover and Calais. No one checks, certainly not the frogs.
Can I say frogs ? Fuck it, yes.

wingy · Sep 7, 2020

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
You can just take a rubber dinghy between Dover and Calais. No one checks, certainly not the frogs.
Can I say frogs ? Fuck it, yes.

I'll chuckle but I can't like

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Sep 7, 2020

wingy said:
I'll chuckle but I can't like

That encouragement you shouldn't be giving.

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