The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by jimmyhillsfanclub, Jun 8, 2016.

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As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
  1. Remain

    23 vote(s)
    37.1%
  2. Leave

    35 vote(s)
    56.5%
  3. Undecided

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  4. Not registered or not intention to vote

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  1. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    Try again.

    BSB said he would eat his words if he tried to defend Brown or said it wasn't him that killed off final salary pensions. The quote was there from him. But he kept going round in circles trying to change the subject. Then as usual trying to blame my generation and not the tax burden put on us by a Labour government.

    Not a surprise as if Labour get in it will mean lots of tax rises. That has already been confirmed. Yet some on here don't seem to mind because the word is it will be the rich hit. We will see.
     
  2. shmmeee

    shmmeee Well-Known Member

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    Firstly nothing has been released yet. Secondly the last figure I saw was if you’re on £85k you’ll see a rise of around £20/month. They’ve repeatedly said they aren’t aiming tax rises at lower income groups and it’s be weird if they did. The wealth is at the top. Regardless I’m not quite a higher rate payer yet (hopefully will be next month) and I’d happily pay more tax and can afford to.
     
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  3. SkyBlueDom26

    SkyBlueDom26 Well-Known Member

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    Empty promises.... everyone's tax will go up eventually
     
  4. shmmeee

    shmmeee Well-Known Member

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    Why? The economic theory Labour are following targets wealth and aims to have a trickle up economy.

    The idea is capitalism is a machine for sucking wealth from bottom to top so the state needs to take it and funnel it into the bottom to ensure a healthy economy.

    Most of the thinkers on that side want to do away with income tax and replace it with wealth taxes for that reason. But even that’s a bit too radical for a party of government.
     
  5. Brighton Sky Blue

    Brighton Sky Blue Well-Known Member

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    This is such a bizarre line of argument-almost one I’d invite you to repeat on national TV
     
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  6. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    The last Labour government wasn't going to tax the less better off. Do you remember what happened?

    How about pensions? We are all poorer because of Brown. A lot of people are relying on an inheritance to help them through retirement. Labour wouldn't do anything to this would they?

    Labour ‘looking at’ plan to slash inheritance tax threshold, McDonnell says

    And if they hit the super rich they will leave. That would leave a massive hole in finances.

    Super-rich prepare to leave UK 'within minutes' if Labour wins election
     
  7. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Interesting you should say that
     
  8. djr8369

    djr8369 Well-Known Member

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    Many modern Nazis would argue this, yes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Are you offended by it?
     
  10. djr8369

    djr8369 Well-Known Member

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    Is that relevant?

    Seek the help you need.


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  11. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    I'd just get on with it. This is classic Grendel schtick.
     
  12. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean?
     
  13. Brighton Sky Blue

    Brighton Sky Blue Well-Known Member

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    You haven’t already done it have you?
     
  14. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    Nobody dare accuse you of saying something because they don't know who has said it :smuggrin:
     
  15. Brighton Sky Blue

    Brighton Sky Blue Well-Known Member

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    The super rich pay as little tax as they can get away with as it is. They pay accountants very well to achieve this and would simply continue doing so. The USA had marginal tax rates of around 90% in the 50s-the rich went nowhere.
     
  16. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t no
     
  17. Brighton Sky Blue

    Brighton Sky Blue Well-Known Member

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    Do please request a slot to argue that Hitler was good for Germany.
     
  18. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    well I’m exploring the principal of arguing that mass slaughter torture and murders could in any circumstances be justified if the political ideology suited
     
  19. Ian1779

    Ian1779 Well-Known Member

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    Any legitimate point you have disappears when you quote that nonsense Guardian article at the end.
     
  20. Brighton Sky Blue

    Brighton Sky Blue Well-Known Member

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    Never been the same since Beowulf have you?
     
  21. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    Ah. So because most rich didn't leave America 70 years ago nobody would leave the UK now?
     
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  22. HuckerbyDublinWhelan

    HuckerbyDublinWhelan Well-Known Member

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    As someone who studied the rise of Nazi Germany - Hitler did energise a failing economy, and created a number of jobs and pride in Germany following world war 1. For natural Germans those who were lucky enough to be Aryan, he did bring in prosperity in the mid to late 30s
     
  23. djr8369

    djr8369 Well-Known Member

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    Yes we all learnt this at school.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  24. Brighton Sky Blue

    Brighton Sky Blue Well-Known Member

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    Evidence shows that when you do favours for the rich they tend to pocket the extra wealth and it doesn’t trickle down. The experiment in Kansas with this led the state to financial ruin very quickly indeed.

    More to the point the tax cuts for the rich and corporations have done little to stem the outsourcing of American jobs to countries with lower wages. We also know that the wealthy tend to indulge in tax avoidance with great success even with ‘friendly’ rates now. Making it harder to avoid paying a fair contribution should be applauded.
     
  25. HuckerbyDublinWhelan

    HuckerbyDublinWhelan Well-Known Member

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    I’m just saying
    Well you’ll see that Grendel is somewhat right - economically he did benefit Germany.

    obviously mass genocide and starting World War 2 is heinous and ultimately he was destroyed for good - but if you’re looking at him from a purely economic view he was good for Germany
     
  26. Brighton Sky Blue

    Brighton Sky Blue Well-Known Member

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    The country was annihilated economically and was only revived in large thanks to the Marshall Plan. Taking aside that it was carved in two and lost a large chunk of pre war territory.
     
  27. djr8369

    djr8369 Well-Known Member

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    In the short term but that’s not the argument he is making.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  28. HuckerbyDublinWhelan

    HuckerbyDublinWhelan Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t say post war did I? Reparations following World War 2 and overspend on an ultimately failed World War 2 decimated Germany as you said.

    but Hitler picked Germany up off its knees
     
  29. Brighton Sky Blue

    Brighton Sky Blue Well-Known Member

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    The discussion is about ‘was Hitler good for Germany’ not ‘did Hitler pick up the economy before the war’
     
  30. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    You know full well what I mean!
     
  31. HuckerbyDublinWhelan

    HuckerbyDublinWhelan Well-Known Member

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    Apologies - misunderstood. I’d say if he weren’t a homicidal despot then possibly, but of course mass slaughter and as you say the consequences of starting a war is not normally something considered good
     
  32. shmmeee

    shmmeee Well-Known Member

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    We’ve addressed the issues with the capital flight myth already. You keep flirting between criticising the neoliberal New Labour policies and the socialist current Labour policies. Make your mind up which you like.

    Inheritance tax is a fair tax, unearned wealth should be taxed in a meritocracy. I accept that this isn’t what a lot of people want to hear as in this country we’ve put so much stock in housing wealth. But it is what it is. Well have to agree to disagree. I’d rather a country where you didn’t have to have rich relatives giving you charity to survive retirement TBH.
     
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  33. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    I remember when the Guardian was accepted on here. Now it is only pro Labour and nothing else will do.

    So what about McDonnell wanting to put the inheritance tax threshold down to the cost of a cheap house?

    Not a word.
     
  34. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    Unearned?

    A lifetimes work free to be taxed. Yet another short sighted Labour tax. Many more will be dependent on the state.

    But it is OK with you so that is OK.
     
  35. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    You are quite funny sometimes.

    There is nothing wrong with jobs going elsewhere from the UK if the EU gives the loan to help it happen. But now because it isn't the EU giving the loan it is OK to mention America.

    Serious clutching of straws by sime tonight.
     

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