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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (16 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,321
djr8369 said:
Are you looking at polls which just show voter intention and extrapolating that into a seat majority? As anything I’ve seen where it’s broken down by Seat makes it look a lot tighter.


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Polls in the MOS - it’s exactly what o would expect though

The issue will be Scotland where they lose seats now but there’s no way they will lose ground in the rest of the uk and will strengthen in many areas.

Corbyn has the worst rating in political history as a leader. He has no clear message on the big issue.

If he calls an election they will have done some significant research to be confident they have a good chance of winning.
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,322
Grendel said:
If he calls an election they will have done some significant research to be confident they have a good chance of winning.
Click to expand...

I don’t doubt it and I’m sure they also intend to bend/break the rules while thinking they’ll win and burry and investigation later.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,323
djr8369 said:
Of course but even plenty of leave voters consider no deal toxic.



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Most will still vote for the party that offered leave - no one who wants to leave will vote for Swinson

The northern seats for labour are furious with labour for a Brexit betrayal and those seats might be vulnerable
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,324
djr8369 said:
I don’t doubt it and I’m sure they also intend to bend/break the rules while thinking they’ll win and burry and investigation later.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

All parties bend and break spending rules. Stop playing the victim
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,325
Grendel said:
If he calls an election they will have done some significant research to be confident they have a good chance of winning.
Click to expand...
Thing is, the swing during a campaign can throw things. Milliband was supposed to be leading a minority government, then May was supposed to be increasing her majority - neither played out.

Corbyn, meanwhile, did surprisingly well on the campaign trail, where he was energised and focussed - an election stopped the dithering, and allowed for a clear message to come through where previously it hadn't.

The Lib Dems are the curveball too, in that they have a clear anti-Brexit message, but how many left leaning voters would put that ahead of their betrayal as part of the coalition government? Greens too, might see it as a chance to break through to a degree, but have limited credibility.

Throw all those into the mix, and an election could go any way. It could see a 100+ majority for Cons, or it could see a welling up of anti-Con feeling, and see them struggle to maintain what they have at the moment.
 
Reactions: djr8369
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,326
Grendel said:
All parties bend and break spending rules. Stop playing the victim
Click to expand...

Not to that extent and you know it. You can’t downplay that as me playing the victim, it’s just an observation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,327
Sick Boy said:
Yeah, right.
Click to expand...
Yeah right? Great response. So what part of my post was incorrect?

Are you saying that the link you provided doesn't contradict what you have been saying or is it that Shmmeee didn't say May did an amazing job....or that you didn't agree with him?

So which part was wrong then?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,328
Grendel said:
They won’t be doing that
Click to expand...

The greens did last time.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,329
Sick Boy said:
The greens did last time.
Click to expand...

The greens in a general election are an irrelevance and their vote would probably go to the undems anyway and there is no way that they will form a pre election pact with labour

It now seems that labour will refuse the election so despite Tony and BSB insisting the government can call one they cannot
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,330
Astute said:
Yeah right? Great response. So what part of my post was incorrect?

Are you saying that the link you provided doesn't contradict what you have been saying or is it that Shmmeee didn't say May did an amazing job....or that you didn't agree with him?

So which part was wrong then?
Click to expand...

So liking a post is a full on endorsement now? That took a full 15 seconds to find.


 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,331
Grendel said:
The greens in a general election are an irrelevance and their vote would probably go to the undems anyway and there is no way that they will form a pre election pact with labour

It now seems that labour will refuse the election so despite Tony and BSB insisting the government can call one they cannot
Click to expand...

Someone has changed their tune again. Only yesterday you were confirming that the government can call an election and denied saying that only the opposition could call one.

We both also pointed out to you that the government needs a two thirds majority in the commons to call an election in reply to you claiming that there was no mechanism for the government to call an election and it was only the opposition that could. There was no insisting of anything, just a correcting of your misinformation. Something you flip flopped less than 24hrs ago to confirm, before flip flopping back again.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,332
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Because it can also be done if 2/3 of the Commons agree to the motion. Corbyn wanted one as well so it happened. G has it wrong yet again
Click to expand...

See. This is Brighton’s initial response to your claim.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,333
skybluetony176 said:
Correct. The government can put it to the commons to a vote and a two thirds majority will trigger a general election which is what May did. The opposition can’t do this. The opposition can only force a general election through a vote of no confidence.

So when Grendull says it’s for the opposition to call an election because of the fixed term parliament act he’s being disingenuous. As is Boris when he claimed he wants and believes that he can do a deal. If he had the conviction of his words he’d be looking to call for a democratic vote in Parliament to put parliament to the democratic vote of the people. Instead a PM that only 0.3% of the population voted for is doing the least democratic thing he can.
Click to expand...

Here’s my reply to Brighton. Agreeing with him and confirming both scenarios in which an early election can be called.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,334
skybluetony176 said:
Someone has changed their tune again. Only yesterday you were confirming that the government can call an election and denied saying that only the opposition could call one.

We both also pointed out to you that the government needs a two thirds majority in the commons to call an election in reply to you claiming that there was no mechanism for the government to call an election and it was only the opposition that could. There was no insisting of anything, just a correcting of your misinformation. Something you flip flopped less than 24hrs ago to confirm, before flip flopping back again.
Click to expand...

No Tony I didn’t.

I also have pointed out how the government can get around this if they wish. Oh and regarding your 25 day rule Laura Keunsberg in an interview with a political expert has said the PM is in total control of the election date due to the way the legislation is worded and can even agree an early election and then change it.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,335
Grendel said:
No Tony I didn’t.

I also have pointed out how the government can get around this if they wish. Oh and regarding your 25 day rule Laura Keunsberg in an interview with a political expert has said the PM is in total control of the election date due to the way the legislation is worded and can even agree an early election and then change it.
Click to expand...

Yes you did. I quoted your posts again just yesterday where you claimed it was only the opposition that could trigger one under the fixed term parliament act. My response was how did May do it? At which point Brighton jumped in with his reply quoted again above. It’s your words against your words I’m afraid, not mine.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,336
skybluetony176 said:
Yes you did. I quoted your posts again just yesterday where you claimed it was only the opposition that could trigger one under the fixed term parliament act. My response was how did May do it? At which point Brighton jumped in with his reply quoted again above. It’s your words against your words I’m afraid, not mine.
Click to expand...

It is only the opposition through a no confidence vote. May didn’t trigger an election that was beyond her powers she had to request one,

No wonder astute has a field day with you. Your comprehension levels are zero
 
Reactions: SkyBlueDom26

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,337
Hopefully the brexit party and tories can come together to stop Corbyn if we have another GE
 
Reactions: westcountry_skyblue

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,338
Grendel said:
It is only the opposition through a no confidence vote. May didn’t trigger an election that was beyond her powers she had to request one,

No wonder astute has a field day with you. Your comprehension levels are zero
Click to expand...

Which is not what you said and what both me and Brighton told you from the start when you claimed otherwise. Again it’s your words against yours. Ironically you bring astute into it when just last week he disagreed with a number of posters and then when FP said the same thing to him he said FP was right and then promptly went back to telling everyone that they were wrong despite just agreeing with what they’d said when a different poster said it. You’re two peas from the same pod.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,339
Sick Boy said:
So liking a post is a full on endorsement now? That took a full 15 seconds to find.

View attachment 12947
View attachment 12948
Click to expand...
Posts back in 2016 took seconds to find

Both them quotes are from personal views. No lies involved. They said what they felt. And I have continually said about what other peeple feel or what it does to them. You liked posts with lies in them.

That is the difference between the two of us.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,340
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Hopefully the brexit party and tories can come together to stop Corbyn if we have another GE
Click to expand...

I suspect Johnson will offer the Brexit party a free run at some labour areas where there there’s a huge desire for Brexit so he can get a few Parliament seats

I do think there is a possibility we may see the absurd situation of Johnson not getting an election - as he can’t do that - and then whipping all of his MPs in a no confidence motion against himself and the absurd sight of Corbyn opposing it.

Some experts (not Tony) believe if that happens it’s actually possible under the act for Johnson to ignore the no Brexit legislation if passed and to reform his own government again as the opposition have declared confidence in it
 
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,341
I think Tony should replace Andrew Marr and we have the Tony show - he seems to know more than every political and constitutional expert I’ve read up on in the last few days
 
Reactions: SkyBlueDom26

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,342
Going off the referendum, 70% of conservative constituencies voted leave and 60% of Labour constituencies voted leave, doesn't bode well for corbyn if a general election is based on brexit
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,343
Grendel said:
It is only the opposition through a no confidence vote. May didn’t trigger an election that was beyond her powers she had to request one,

No wonder astute has a field day with you. Your comprehension levels are zero
Click to expand...
I have given up with him. All I want is a debate. But a debate is the last thing some on here want.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,344
Grendel said:
I think Tony should replace Andrew Marr and we have the Tony show - he seems to know more than every political and constitutional expert I’ve read up on in the last few days
Click to expand...

Ironically you’re now agreeing with me and Brighton while saying we’ve got it wrong.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,345
skybluetony176 said:
Ironically you’re now agreeing with me and Brighton while saying we’ve got it wrong.
Click to expand...

No Tony you genuinely lack comprehension and understanding
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,346
Astute said:
Posts back in 2016 took seconds to find

Both them quotes are from personal views. No lies involved. They said what they felt. And I have continually said about what other peeple feel or what it does to them. You liked posts with lies in them.

That is the difference between the two of us.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they’re on page 1 and 2, 2 only 2 clicks away.

Using your logic you’ve endorsed those views too.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,347
Grendel said:
No Tony you genuinely lack comprehension and understanding
Click to expand...

Says the man who disagrees with someone by agreeing with them, after disagreeing with them. Several times. Just need to check the time to see if it’s time for you to change your opinion again. 12 hour clock should be fine.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,348
Sick Boy said:
Yeah, they’re on page 1 and 2, 2 only 2 clicks away.

Using your logic you’ve endorsed those views too.
Click to expand...

Now now, he only wants a discussion.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,349
Astute said:
Did you see any comeback from my comment?

So I can't understand what is going on? Who was it that has constantly had a go at me for saying about the consequences to people and districts in the remaining EU countries? And what was the link this same person supplied for us to read? Oh yes it was you totally contradicting everything you have been saying for ages.

Or shall we try Shmmeee saying that May did an amazing job? You and others agreed with him. Yet not one of you has even tried to say in any way what she did was amazing. Nobody has even tried to say what she did was even good.

Me childish? Me not understanding what is happening? You need to look at yourself and those who you frequently agree with.
Click to expand...

She did a great job. She was given a shit sandwich and managed to get a deal that met the ERGs red lines and held her party together whilst not destroying the economy or the union.

Literally couldn’t have done better. As Johnson is nicely proving right now.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,350
djr8369 said:
Are you looking at polls which just show voter intention and extrapolating that into a seat majority? As anything I’ve seen where it’s broken down by Seat makes it look a lot tighter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

There are no models out there for this. Any seat level prediction is basically a guess at this point. Too many variables:
- What will Farage tell his acolytes to do?
- What will sensible Tories do?
- What will anti-Corbyn remainers in Con/Lab marginals do?
- Has Corbyn seen his bounce?
- What sort of campaigner is Johnson?
- How reliably will leave voters turn out?
- What’s the geographic split of each party?

Any of those could swing it one way or another.
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,351
shmmeee said:
There are no models out there for this. Any seat level prediction is basically a guess at this point. Too many variables:
- What will Farage tell his acolytes to do?
- What will sensible Tories do?
- What will anti-Corbyn remainers in Con/Lab marginals do?
- Has Corbyn seen his bounce?
- What sort of campaigner is Johnson?
- How reliably will leave voters turn out?
- What’s the geographic split of each party?

Any of those could swing it one way or another.
Click to expand...

Well there are models it’s the veracity of them that is at question. As I said above it’s going to be an extraordinarily complex election where many seats will be unpredictable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,352
djr8369 said:
Well there are models it’s the veracity of them that is at question. As I said above it’s going to be an extraordinarily complex election where many seats will be unpredictable.


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Click to expand...

I mean tested models. We’ve basically turned politics on its head. No one even knows if the 2017 models still apply, and they’ve barely been tested.

If I had to guess I’d say another hung parliament. The essential problem of a 50:50 split across the country hasn’t gone anywhere.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,353
skybluetony176 said:
Says the man who disagrees with someone by agreeing with them, after disagreeing with them. Several times. Just need to check the time to see if it’s time for you to change your opinion again. 12 hour clock should be fine.
Click to expand...

You are out of your depth - you are like the annoying school boy at the back trying to gain attention with pointless and irritating remarks

You have nothing to add to this debate. Why don’t you go back to the playground and have a game of hopscotch?
 
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Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,354
shmmeee said:
I mean tested models. We’ve basically turned politics on its head. No one even knows if the 2017 models still apply, and they’ve barely been tested.

If I had to guess I’d say another hung parliament. The essential problem of a 50:50 split across the country hasn’t gone anywhere.
Click to expand...

Except one party may well attract 50% of the electorate
 

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 3, 2019
  • #40,355
Philip Hammond is the biggest snake going, Boris needs to sack him ASAP
 
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