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The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (13 Viewers)

  • Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
  • Start date Jun 8, 2016
Forums New posts

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
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M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,116
Grendel said:
What an absurd statement with zero basis in fact
Click to expand...

London remains a safe haven for the world’s dirty cash | Simon Jenkins
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,117
martcov said:
Haha. I said the UK has been heavily involved in wars. Bombing and sending in troops or SAS elite troops from a professional full time army and Air Force is being heavily involved by most people’s standards.

The EU is a great project to keep Europe together in the face of a changing world. You should’nt knock it.
Click to expand...
Absolute bollocks. What do you know about most people's idea of being heavily involved in war is ? Was there conscription ? Reservists being called up? Don't assume you know what most people think what "heavily involved " means. Did the Vietnam war involve the USA to a "heavy" degree ? I'm afraid (and with the greatest respect to them ) sending in the SAS doesn't constitute a "heavy" war without putting their involvement in the context of the rest of the armed forces or economic gearing towards a war effort.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,118
Grendel said:
What an absurd statement with zero basis in fact
Click to expand...

We’ve had to create the unexplained wealth order to deal with it the problem is so bad. First used in 2018 in an extremely high profile case. Suggesting that its a statement with zero basis in fact is what’s absurd.
 
Reactions: martcov

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,119
Grendel said:
I would suggest you will struggle to find any positive comments I have ever said about Mr Johnson - his racism is pretty small beer compared to the likes of Mr Corbyn however
Click to expand...

You’re still going to vote for him though?
 
Reactions: martcov

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,120
djr8369 said:
No it isn’t ironic. Yesterday the attitude shown on here to Germany was clearly a form of racism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I missed it . What was the attitude towards them ? Genuinely I don't know what was said. I do know having visited the Opel car plant near Russelsheim a few years back that they hated Turkish workers. They told me so.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,121
Grendel said:
I maintain and I believe that the EU is the 4th reich and is deployment of national socialist policies via economic strategy and labour exploitation coupled with economic and fiscal control

I have no interest in Trump, farage etc and am pleased the UK parliament is not awash with extremist bigots compared to those across Europe
Click to expand...

You can believe what you want, but you obviously missed the 3. Reich whose aims were in many cases similar to that of the Brexit party, or rather more like those of TR and UKIP. Can you show examples of 4. Reich rule in the UK as an EU country? How many have been arrested?
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,122
skybluetony176 said:
You’re still going to vote for him though?
Click to expand...
He can't . He's not an MP.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,123
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
He can't . He's not an MP.
Click to expand...

He doesn’t have to be.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,124
martcov said:
You can believe what you want, but you obviously missed the 3. Reich whose aims were in many cases similar to that of the Brexit party, or rather more like those of TR and UKIP. Can you show examples of 4. Reich rule in the UK as an EU country? How many have been arrested?
Click to expand...
Can you document here clear policy similarities between the Brexit party and aims of the Third Reich?, Waiting for facts here, not opinion.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,125
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Absolute bollocks. What do you know about most people's idea of being heavily involved in war is ? Was there conscription ? Reservists being called up? Don't assume you know what most people think what "heavily involved " means. Did the Vietnam war involve the USA to a "heavy" degree ? I'm afraid (and with the greatest respect to them ) sending in the SAS doesn't constitute a "heavy" war without putting their involvement in the context of the rest of the armed forces or economic gearing towards a war effort.
Click to expand...

Bombing Iraq and invading it were not heavy engagement? A million people matched against the war in Iraq. They obviously thought it was being heavily involved in a war. Iraq, Syria and Libya are what then? Lightly involved?
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,126
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Can you document here clear policy similarities between the Brexit party and aims of the Third Reich , Waiting for facts here, not opinion.
Click to expand...

I already have.
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,127
martcov said:
I already have.
Click to expand...
No you haven't. Fake again Mr Trump.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,128
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Can you document here clear policy similarities between the Brexit party and aims of the Third Reich?, Waiting for facts here, not opinion.
Click to expand...

Who voted Ferage leader of the Brexit Party? What’s the process for removing him from as leader?
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and martcov

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,129
martcov said:
Bombing Iraq and invading it were not heavy engagement? A million people matched against the war in Iraq. They obviously thought it was being heavily involved in a war. Iraq, Syria and Libya are what then? Lightly involved?
Click to expand...
Being German you should be familiar with the expression "Total War".
As I see it, the UK has followed the USA foreign policy all too often since WW2 . However , for you to point out the obvious fact that the UK has engaged in bombings and military action in no way paints Germany as a bastion of peace and reconciliation.
What is the state of the German army, navy and air force compared to the UK in terms of investment and numbers ?
 
Last edited: Jul 19, 2019

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,130
martcov said:
Bombing Iraq and invading it were not heavy engagement? A million people matched against the war in Iraq. They obviously thought it was being heavily involved in a war. Iraq, Syria and Libya are what then? Lightly involved?
Click to expand...

You forgot Afghanistan. Plus multiple skirmishes in Asia and North Africa since 1945. In fact there aren’t many years since 1945 when British forces hasn’t been involved in something on the world stage.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,131
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/jul/18/boris-johnson-blames-eu-for-kipper-rules-which-are-actually-british-video

Good old Boris.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,132
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Being German you should be familiar with the expression "Total War"
Click to expand...

Yes, I am. Goebbels speech at the Sportpalast Berlin.

When they were thinking people had had enough and were wavering, Goebbels made an impassioned speech in which he asked „ do you want total war. The answer was a resounding Jawohl! A bit like asking leavers if they want no deal.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,133
skybluetony176 said:
You forgot Afghanistan. Plus multiple skirmishes in Asia and North Africa since 1945. In fact there aren’t many years since 1945 when British forces hasn’t been involved in something on the world stage.
Click to expand...

Exactly. The Falklands was pretty heavy war.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,134
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Being German you should be familiar with the expression "Total War".
As I see it, the UK has followed the USA foreign policy all too often since WW2 . However , for you to point out the obvious fact that the UK has engaged in bombings and military action in no way paints Germany as a bastion of peace and reconciliation.
What is the state of the German army, navy and air force compared to the UK in terms of investment and numbers ?
Click to expand...

Germany is a bastion of peace since 1945 and at least has done a lot of work on Reconciliation. That is a fact. It has also tried to help bring peace in other regions. E.g. by holding Afghanistan conferences in Germany with the participants as neutral meeting place.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,135
Sick Boy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/jul/18/boris-johnson-blames-eu-for-kipper-rules-which-are-actually-british-video

Good old Boris.
Click to expand...

He cannot even research his facts before opening his mouth.
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,136
Another one who likes calling remainers Nazis:

„On 19 December, Goddard filmed himself following and verbally abusing Ms Soubry outside the Houses of Parliament.

“You are a traitor, you are a disgrace,” he shouted. “You are on the side of Adolf Hitler.”

The court heard that Ms Soubry, who later defected from the Conservatives to join Change UK, was called a “Nazi, traitor and scum”.“

Sounds familiar.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,137
Sick Boy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/jul/18/boris-johnson-blames-eu-for-kipper-rules-which-are-actually-british-video

Good old Boris.
Click to expand...

In Boris we trust.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,138
martcov said:
He cannot even research his facts before opening his mouth.
Click to expand...

It was just a hake filled rant.

I think all the attention has gone to Boris’ head and he’s developed a cod complex.
 
Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, shmmeee and martcov

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,139
martcov said:
Germany is a bastion of peace since 1945 and at least has done a lot of work on Reconciliation. That is a fact. It has also tried to help bring peace in other regions. E.g. by holding Afghanistan conferences in Germany with the participants as neutral meeting place.
Click to expand...
I get all of that ,It's trying to rid itself of its reputation. How large are the German armed forces compares to France and UK ? I suspect it's smaller. I wonder why ? It might be promoting itself as a forward thinking country without a strong military but it hasn't much choice in the matter, which is probably a good thing for us all.
 
Last edited: Jul 19, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,140
skybluetony176 said:
It was just a hake filled rant.
Click to expand...
That's a bit fishy isn't it ?
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,141
martcov said:
Exactly. The Falklands was pretty heavy war.
Click to expand...
We sent a task force. No conscription. No call ups. You would have probably handed it over to Argentina.
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,142
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
I get all of that ,It's trying to rid itself of its reputation. How large are the German armed forces compares to France and UK ? I suspect it's smaller. I wonder why ? It might be promoting itself as a forward thinking country without a strong military but it hasn't much choice in the matter, which is probably a good thing for us all.
Click to expand...

You see this is an example of racism which I think you asked for earlier. You are painting the entire German people with the same same brush as the Nazis.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: martcov
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,143
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Can you document here clear policy similarities between the Brexit party and aims of the Third Reich?, Waiting for facts here, not opinion.
Click to expand...

Removal of foreigners. Use of propaganda. Sowing distrust of public institutions designed to keep power in check. Demonisation of the hostile press. Calling opponents traitors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, Sick Boy and martcov

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,144
Brexit Party are fairly standard right wing populists from what I’ve seen. I mean they’re basically UKIP reskinned so they would be.

Reading this: Nazi economic, social and racial policy - WJEC - Revision 1 - GCSE History - BBC Bitesize

There’s a fair bit of cross over with making the country self sufficient, national service, spending on the military.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, djr8369 and martcov
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,145
djr8369 said:
Removal of foreigners. Use of propaganda. Sowing distrust of public institutions designed to keep power in check. Demonisation of the hostile press. Calling opponents traitors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Being run as a non democratic party with a leader who is virtually impossible to replace. Close alignment to wealthy financers. Pretence at being on the side of the little man and small business owner against the wealthy elite.

Promoting wartime heroism and wanting to increase military spending.

Asking people to believe in the country and promising a final victory over a perceived enemy.

Wanting to break away from multilateral organisations and go it alone.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and djr8369
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,146
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
I get all of that ,It's trying to rid itself of its reputation. How large are the German armed forces compares to France and UK ? I suspect it's smaller. I wonder why ? It might be promoting itself as a forward thinking country without a strong military but it hasn't much choice in the matter, which is probably a good thing for us all.
Click to expand...

Trump insists that Germany increases military spending on NATO. So it has chosen to spend less, but is under pressure to rearm from the USA. Seeing as Germany is not in the slightest interested in going to war, I don’t get what you have to worry about.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,147
Have the Brexit Party actually bothered to publish a manifesto yet? Had a quick look on their website and they just seem to be asking people to ‘chip in for Brexit’.

The closest I’ve found is this
The Brexit Party Manifesto
 
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,148
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
We sent a task force. No conscription. No call ups. You would have probably handed it over to Argentina.
Click to expand...

Why would I? The task force was an amazing event. To send so much military equipment and so many men to islands on the other side of the world was a fantastic achievement- whether or not you agree with the reason. That was heavy warfare by any standard.
 
Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
M

martcov

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,149
Sick Boy said:
Have the Brexit Party actually bothered to publish a manifesto yet? Had a quick look on their website and they just seem to be asking people to ‘chip in for Brexit’.

The closest I’ve found is this
The Brexit Party Manifesto
Click to expand...

Well you can’t accuse them of dishonesty. They are very clear on who they are fighting for.

Play on people‘s basic fears, keep them angry with a flow of anti EU trivia ( free Belgian chocolates to welcome MEPs at taxpayers expense, free cocktails on fact finding mission to the Caribbean are the latest reports from „our men in Brussels“. Kippers from BoJo to compliment bananas.

And them cash in.

Thanks suckers... as they go gravy training into the sunset...
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 19, 2019
  • #38,150
Grendel said:
What an absurd statement with zero basis in fact
Click to expand...

It has been argued one of the main reasons a number of wealthy individuals, financiers etc back Brexit is because the EU wants to bring in tougher independent regulation of financial services. That doesn't suit them as it shines a light on their activities.

People like JRM want self-regulation so essentially no-one can look at what they're doing and if there are calls of impropriety the people conducting the investigation will be themselves. So a "nothing to see here, guv" attitude.
 
Reactions: shmmeee, martcov and Sick Boy
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