The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (9 Viewers)

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Jul 18, 2019

Sick Boy said:
His true agenda is pretty obvious. The go home/send her back thing is abhorrent. God help the UK if it moves away from a European mindset to that of the USA.

Agreed. If only the USA spoke any other language other than English perhaps this "special relationship " might not be so special. Hunt's refusal to call Trump by "the r word" because Trump is the President was depressingly unsurprising. This, in the context that his own children are half Chinese and that he admitted that he'd be appalled if such comments were directed at his own children makes it even more annoying that a prominent UK politician can't / won't call it as it is . He's not the only one of course.

CCFCSteve · Jul 18, 2019

So the amendment finally got through which will potentially stop a No Deal.

No Deal is the last thing I want. I think the damage and disruption, at least in the short term, will turn the country against Brexit (I honestly believe most leavers want some kind of close relationship deal done). However, unless it is a genuine option, there is no chance the EU will change their position. Without any substantive changes to the withdrawal agreement, there is no chance of getting a deal through Parliament.

WTF are the politicians doing ?! Bizarrely, those voting in favour of this amendment ‘protecting the country’ are potentially doing more damage as this is almost certainly likely to lead to the EU refusing substantive amendments to the withdrawal agreement, the withdrawal agreement therefore getting rejected again (if it is even brought back for another vote), leading to another election, leading to another minority government, leading to more uncertainty.

If anyone believes that this is better for the country than just getting something done and out the way, they are crazy. Business can adapt to certainty, however difficult the circumstances are, however, they can’t adapt when they don’t know what they are preparing/planning for !

Shambles !

ps I always was reasonably supportive of May and her trying to find a compromise in impossible circumstances (ERG nutters on one side and those that didn’t accept the result on the other), however, if Barnier is correct and she never ever countenanced a No Deal, then she deserves all the stick she gets

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
I don't think anyone said Germany was planning to invade countries on a slow burn, but it's no more fanciful as saying Germany will never start a war ever again.

Bazza brought it into the conversation. He said „for all we know“ Germany could have an invasion on the back burner. The equivalent of „ for all we know“ Spain could build an Armada because of Gibralter, or Macron could do as Napoleon and march on Moscow. All scenarios theoretically possible, but in reality the chances are nil.

Basically a racist statement classing Germans as warmongers, whilst, factually, they haven’t been to war since 1945 when they learnt that wars end in tears. The EU country that has been involved in most wars since 1945 is the UK. If I were placing a bet, I would place my money on the UK getting involved in a war before Germany. But, I cannot prove it as you say.

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Yes they do. Perhaps its time to move on.

It most certainly is. Revoke article 50 and start to deal with real UK problems, not invented ones.

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Agreed. If only the USA spoke any other language other than English perhaps this "special relationship " might not be so special. Hunt's refusal to call Trump by "the r word" because Trump is the President was depressingly unsurprising. This, in the context that his own children are half Chinese and that he admitted that he'd be appalled if such comments were directed at his own children makes it even more annoying that a prominent UK politician can't / won't call it as it is . He's not the only one of course.

No, I sick of the dumb comments on here about Jack boots, Merkel‘s 4. Reich, German’s ruling the EU... the anti German stance by some on here. My missus is German and my daughter half German. I have loads of German friends and colleagues. So, I see it as Hunt. The racist twats on here can’t get enough of saying stupid things, and now they are suggesting conspiracy theories about Germany wanting an EU army to invade other countries.

It would be nice to have a rational conversation some time. ( Won’t happen ).

Grendel · Jul 18, 2019

martcov said:
No, I sick of the dumb comments on here about Jack boots, Merkel‘s 4. Reich, German’s ruling the EU... the anti German stance by some on here. My missus is German and my daughter half German. I have loads of German friends and colleagues. So, I see it as Hunt. The racist twats on here can’t get enough of saying stupid things, and now they are suggesting conspiracy theories about Germany wanting an EU army to invade other countries.

It would be nice to have a rational conversation some time. ( Won’t happen ).

When you make a nonsense statement that Putin would not invade an Eu country if there was an Eu army what do you expect?

Grendel · Jul 18, 2019

martcov said:
It most certainly is. Revoke article 50 and start to deal with real UK problems, not invented ones.

The nazi in you speaks

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

CCFCSteve said:
So the amendment finally got through which will potentially stop a No Deal.

No Deal is the last thing I want. I think the damage and disruption, at least in the short term, will turn the country against Brexit (I honestly believe most leavers want some kind of close relationship deal done). However, unless it is a genuine option, there is no chance the EU will change their position. Without any substantive changes to the withdrawal agreement, there is no chance of getting a deal through Parliament.

WTF are the politicians doing ?! Bizarrely, those voting in favour of this amendment ‘protecting the country’ are potentially doing more damage as this is almost certainly likely to lead to the EU refusing substantive amendments to the withdrawal agreement, the withdrawal agreement therefore getting rejected again (if it is even brought back for another vote), leading to another election, leading to another minority government, leading to more uncertainty.

If anyone believes that this is better for the country than just getting something done and out the way, they are crazy. Business can adapt to certainty, however difficult the circumstances are, however, they can’t adapt when they don’t know what they are preparing/planning for !

Shambles !

ps I always was reasonably supportive of May and her trying to find a compromise in impossible circumstances (ERG nutters on one side and those that didn’t accept the result on the other), however, if Barnier is correct and she never ever countenanced a No Deal, then she deserves all the stick she gets

The EU are not going to change their position substantially. Try getting 27 plus 1 sovereign countries to come an agreement.

They got it. Fantastic. It was leave.

Only now the leavers say, no that’s not what we voted for. How can they claim what the voted for? It was leave or remain on the ballot.

Nothing else.

I said from wird go that this was stupid. Nothing has happened to convince me otherwise.

The country is now being handed over to a well known liar who is tactless, dishonest, lazy and doesn’t read up on things before he opens his mouth.

Things are not going to get better. ( I cannot prove it, but on past evidence of BoJo I am on a safe bet ).

Grendel · Jul 18, 2019

martcov said:
Bazza brought it into the conversation. He said „for all we know“ Germany could have an invasion on the back burner. The equivalent of „ for all we know“ Spain could build an Armada because of Gibralter, or Macron could do as Napoleon and march on Moscow. All scenarios theoretically possible, but in reality the chances are nil.

Basically a racist statement classing Germans as warmongers, whilst, factually, they haven’t been to war since 1945 when they learnt that wars end in tears. The EU country that has been involved in most wars since 1945 is the UK. If I were placing a bet, I would place my money on the UK getting involved in a war before Germany. But, I cannot prove it as you say.

Germany have had troops in occupied countries which we have not haven’t they?

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

Grendel said:
The nazi in you speaks

Didn’t take long for a dumb comment.

Grendel · Jul 18, 2019

martcov said:
The EU are not going to change their position substantially. Try getting 27 plus 1 sovereign countries to come an agreement.

They got it. Fantastic. It was leave.

Only now the leavers say, no that’s not what we voted for. How can they claim what the voted for? It was leave or remain on the ballot.

Nothing else.

I said from wird go that this was stupid. Nothing has happened to convince me otherwise.

The country is now being handed over to a well known liar who is tactless, dishonest, lazy and doesn’t read up on things before he opens his mouth.

Things are not going to get better. ( I cannot prove it, but on past evidence of BoJo I am on a safe bet ).

Has Boris Johnson had a conviction in a court of law?

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

Grendel said:
Germany have had troops in occupied countries which we have not haven’t they?

Yes. And your point is? Did they invade those countries or take part in the wars which ended with a peace keeping mission?

Grendel · Jul 18, 2019

martcov said:
Didn’t take long for a dumb comment.

To suggest revoking article 50 is bigoted and anti democratic

Grendel · Jul 18, 2019

martcov said:
Yes. And your point is? Did they invade those countries or take part in the wars which ended with a peace keeping mission?

So by definition UK involvement has been peace keeping hasn’t it?

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

Grendel said:
Has Boris Johnson had a conviction in a court of law?

The law let him off, but that doesn’t make him not a proven liar. He has been pulled on his lies on TV and just deflects and waffles on about something else.

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

Grendel said:
So by definition UK involvement has been peace keeping hasn’t it?

No. Bombing shit out of people’s countries is not counted as peace keeping.

Grendel · Jul 18, 2019

martcov said:
The law let him off, but that doesn’t make him not a proven liar. He has been pulled on his lies on TV and just deflects and waffles on about something else.

Has he had a conviction?

Grendel · Jul 18, 2019

martcov said:
No. Bombing shit out of people’s countries is not counted as peace keeping.

Like who?

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

Grendel said:
When you make a nonsense statement that Putin would not invade an Eu country if there was an Eu army what do you expect?

You missed out that I said „with NATO“. You just take a part of the sentence and conveniently miss an important qualifier.

dutchman · Jul 18, 2019

martcov said:
Basically a racist statement classing Germans as warmongers, whilst, factually, they haven’t been to war since 1945 when they learnt that wars end in tears.

For most of that period they were occupied by the Allied Powers and split into two so they didn't have the opportunity.

Grendel · Jul 18, 2019

martcov said:
You missed out that I said „with NATO“. You just take a part of the sentence and conveniently miss an important qualifier.

So they haven’t illegally invaded countries against NATO directives?

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

Grendel said:
Like who?

Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya,

Sick Boy · Jul 18, 2019

Grendel said:
To suggest revoking article 50 is bigoted and anti democratic

How on earth is it bigoted?

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

dutchman said:
For most of that period they were occupied by the Allied Powers and split into two so they didn't have the opportunity.

They are now in NATO and the EU, so yes they don’t have the opportunity.

There is no way that they are thinking of rearming, leaving NATO, leaving the EU, getting the Atom Bomb, reintroducing conscription ( which would be necessary) and discreetly preparing to invade someone. Just talking about it shows how dumb the conversation is.

Grendel · Jul 18, 2019

martcov said:
Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya,

Have France bombed the shit out of these countries as well?

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

Grendel said:
So they haven’t illegally invaded countries against NATO directives?

No.

Sick Boy · Jul 18, 2019

martcov said:
The EU are not going to change their position substantially. Try getting 27 plus 1 sovereign countries to come an agreement.

They got it. Fantastic. It was leave.

Only now the leavers say, no that’s not what we voted for. How can they claim what the voted for? It was leave or remain on the ballot.

Nothing else.

I said from wird go that this was stupid. Nothing has happened to convince me otherwise.

The country is now being handed over to a well known liar who is tactless, dishonest, lazy and doesn’t read up on things before he opens his mouth.

Things are not going to get better. ( I cannot prove it, but on past evidence of BoJo I am on a safe bet ).

The fact so many leavers want Johnson is bizarre, he’s the last person I’d want to handle it if I were them.

Grendel · Jul 18, 2019

Sick Boy said:
How on earth is it bigoted?

Because it is a sneering elitist attempt to usurp democracy - it’s exactly how Nazi Germany would behave

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

Grendel said:
To suggest revoking article 50 is bigoted and anti democratic

Millions of people ( over 6 million) have signed a petition, over a million have taken part on marches to revoke article 50. millions want it to be put to the people. Me too.

You call us all bigots? Trump? No, we are the democratic opposition to a flawed decision.

Having an opposition is a vital part of democracy.

Only a fascist would decry having an opposition.

We aren’t going away.

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

Grendel said:
Because it is a sneering elitist attempt to usurp democracy - it’s exactly how Nazi Germany would behave

The sneers don’t come from our side.

Grendel · Jul 18, 2019

martcov said:
No.

So Russia did not have a suspension of relations with NATO in 2014 - you seem to be implying if an Eu army existed they’d have declared war if Russia invaded Ukraine or Estonia and an Eu army existed. That would contradict NATO policy and force all Eu countries to aggression against a NATO directive

It’s an extraordinary position to take

Grendel · Jul 18, 2019

martcov said:
Millions of people ( over 6 million) have signed a petition, over a million have taken part on marches to revoke article 50. millions want it to be put to the people. Me too.

You call us all bigots? Trump? No, we are the democratic opposition to a flawed decision.

Having an opposition is a vital part of democracy.

Only a fascist would decry having an opposition.

We aren’t going away.

An opposition that wants to remove the majority decision

How very democratic of you

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

Grendel said:
Have France bombed the shit out of these countries as well?

Yes.

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

Grendel said:
An opposition that wants to remove the majority decision

How very democratic of you

All opposition parties want to reverse some decisions, the flawed ones, or at least amend them. That’s why they are called the opposition.

martcov · Jul 18, 2019

Grendel said:
So Russia did not have a suspension of relations with NATO in 2014 - you seem to be implying if an Eu army existed they’d have declared war if Russia invaded Ukraine or Estonia and an Eu army existed. That would contradict NATO policy and force all Eu countries to aggression against a NATO directive

It’s an extraordinary position to take

Yes, quite. It would be, but that is not my position.

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