The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (7 Viewers)

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · May 29, 2019

Kingokings204 said:
Conveniently leaves out tories who got 9% and takes brexit parties to 44%. Add Labour also and you have actually nearer 60% to leave the EU. Tories and Labour both are on current manifestos of leave the EU and it’s CU and SM if I remembered 2017 general election correctly.

Listen the truth is no one in major numbers has changed their mind and the result would be roughly the same again if a referendum was held tomorrow. The problem is turnout would be no where near as high at 33m people and you have actually a lot of remainers accept the democratic result. This is why they are not pushing for remain and leave in a second referendum instead they are trying remain or Mays deal. Give no genuine leave option and remain will win.

I really don't think you can lump all the tories or labour in as Brexit parties just because their 2017 manifestos supported Brexit. Their previous ones from just a couple of years before that had both party policies as hardcore remain. Main reason they were pro-Brexit was due to political consultants telling them any other stance would be picked up on as being anti-democratic by the extreme parties.

Tories are still massively divided, hence why none of the deals or options have been voted through. Labour is also divided but largely due to Jeremy being pro-leave but most of the rest being pro-remain. So they've just sat on their hands and not declared either way as each is afraid of upsetting the other.

But if you want to add them in lets do the analysis:
Four pro-Brexit parties:

2014-19 change
Brexit +30.5% +29 seats
UKIP -23.4% -24 seats
Tory -14.3% -15 seats
Labour -10.7% -10 seats

Overall: -17.9% vote -20 seats

So of the four parties you consider to be 'Brexit favouring', 3 got an absolute pasting and have lost over a quarter of the UK seats in the EU parliament since the last election to ones favourable to Remain.

If you look at the raw 2019 data it suggests the divide between leave and remain is still largely equal, but the trends since the last election show that there is a shift towards remain

SIR ERNIE · May 29, 2019

Grendel said:
He would in the type of society the Eu militants crave

I’m sure that decent Remainers are embarrassed at the lengths to which some are prepared to go in their futile attempts to undermine the result of the referendum.

SkyBlueDom26 · May 29, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
No, being a total tosser incapable of stringing a sentence together makes you a righty dullard with no sense of irony.

Chip on your shoulder you have m8, chill yourself

Deleted member 5849 · May 29, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Chip on your shoulder you have m8, chill yourself

I am chilled you utter wanker

SkyBlueDom26 · May 29, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
I am chilled you utter wanker

Charming, that what you do yeah abuse people who don't agree with you?

Sick Boy · May 29, 2019

Astute said:
Brexit is massive to the EU and the countries in the EU. More money to put in/less to take out. Nearly every country sells more to us than they buy from us. Those who work in tourism are worried. And I could go on.

Over here it doesn’t even get mentioned on the news any more. Why would it be? It really isn’t as big a deal here as it is in the UK.

Deleted member 5849 · May 29, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Charming, that what you do yeah abuse people who don't agree with you?

Again, no sense of irony you total clueless tosser.

You're a righty dick who's an utter clown.

skybluetony176 · May 29, 2019

Oh dear. Someone attempts to hold the brexit poster boy to the the words of his posters and all the angry righties go red faced and frothy. Didums.

SkyBlueDom26 · May 29, 2019

Deleted member 5849 said:
Again, no sense of irony you total clueless tosser.

You're a righty dick who's an utter clown.

skybluetony176 said:
Oh dear. Someone attempts to hold the brexit poster boy to the the words of his posters and all the angry righties go red faced and frothy. Didums.

We're leaving the EU, thats what the MAJORITY voted for

shmmeee · May 29, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
We're leaving the EU, thats what the MAJORITY voted for

So you’d back Mays deal then?

Also, twice now a majority has voted against No Deal, and a parliament elected since the referendum has repeatedly voted No Deal down, so by any metric of democracy it’s be undemocratic to leave without a deal.

Do you agree?

Grendel · May 29, 2019

shmmeee said:
So you’d back Mays deal then?

Blimey. The council crypt is open for public viewing everyone

SkyBlueDom26 · May 29, 2019

shmmeee said:
So you’d back Mays deal then?

Also, twice now a majority has voted against No Deal, and a parliament elected since the referendum has repeatedly voted No Deal down, so by any metric of democracy it’s be undemocratic to leave without a deal.

Do you agree?

No I'll put faith in the new leader to get us a better deal, which they will

shmmeee · May 29, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
No I'll put faith in the new leader to get us a better deal, which they will

What will you be looking for in a better deal and why do you think May didn’t get it?

SkyBlueDom26 · May 29, 2019

shmmeee said:
What will you be looking for in a better deal and why do you think May didn’t get it?

Because she's a remainer and her intentions were to get us the worst deal possible to try and keep us in the EU, she knew it would never get enough votes

shmmeee · May 29, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Because she's a remainer and her intentions were to get us the worst deal possible to try and keep us in the EU, she knew it would never get enough votes

What don’t you like about the deal?

I’m no May fan, but I honestly can’t see what a better deal would look like. Compromise between the two extremes, fulfils the referendum, doesn’t tank the economy.

What’s it missing for you?

Deleted member 5849 · May 29, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
No I'll put faith in the new leader to get us a better deal, which they will

rofl

Deleted member 5849 · May 29, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Because she's a remainer and her intentions were to get us the worst deal possible to try and keep us in the EU, she knew it would never get enough votes

My word, and you wonder why people talk to you like you're an infant, you paranoid fucker.

SIR ERNIE · May 29, 2019

Sick Boy said:
This is why a compromise has to be found

shmmeee said:
Compromise between the two extremes,

Compromise.
Funny how often this word crops up in Remainer speak isn’t it.
If Remain had won 52-48 I can easily imagine them saying ‘tell you what, it was a close result so let’s compromise and go for a soft Brexit’.

djr8369 · May 29, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
No I'll put faith in the new leader to get us a better deal, which they will

Specifically what aspect of the deal will they improve and what, if anything, will they compromise on?

Not saying it’s impossible but it’s unlikely and I’m yet to hear anyone say how they’d like to improve it.

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djr8369 · May 29, 2019

SIR ERNIE said:
Compromise.
Funny how often this word crops up in Remainer speak isn’t it.
If Remain had won 52-48 I can easily imagine them saying ‘tell you what, it was a close result so let’s compromise and go for a soft Brexit’.

Soft Brexit wouldn’t be a compromise in that situation but pushing for reform from within would be and I’d imagine that’s what sensible Brexiters would have asked for in the situation. Don’t forget Farage wanted another referendum for 48/52.

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Sick Boy · May 29, 2019

SIR ERNIE said:
Compromise.
Funny how often this word crops up in Remainer speak isn’t it.
If Remain had won 52-48 I can easily imagine them saying ‘tell you what, it was a close result so let’s compromise and go for a soft Brexit’.

Remainer speak haha fucking hell.

skybluetony176 · May 29, 2019

SkyBlueDom26 said:
Because she's a remainer and her intentions were to get us the worst deal possible to try and keep us in the EU, she knew it would never get enough votes

Your problem there is you think that the fairy tail sold by the leave campaign was ever available. May’s deal is the reality of what leave voters voted for. Seems easier to deny that in the hope that the lies were real. You’re on a hiding to nowhere and it’s completely self inflicted.

Sick Boy · May 29, 2019

Brexit party in talks to join far-right group in EU parliament

djr8369 · May 29, 2019

Sick Boy said:
Brexit party in talks to join far-right group in EU parliament

Odd that he’s negotiating with all these different groups when supposedly his objective is to leave, very odd. It’s almost like he’s not fussed about leaving at all...

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Sick Boy · May 29, 2019

djr8369 said:
Odd that he’s negotiating with all these different groups when supposedly his objective is to leave, very odd. It’s almost like he’s not fussed about leaving at all...

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Yeah Brexit is merely a small piece of it now, which is why those voting as a protest were off their head!

martcov · May 29, 2019

Ashdown said:
Because they have closed ranks and made it almost impossible to Leave on decent terms ?

May made up the red lines she wouldn’t cross. The GFA was signed by the UK. The EU has to work within it’s rules and it won’t make an exception for a country that is leaving as it would be unfair in the remaining members. It is therefore impossible to leave on the same or better terms than we have in the EU. I could have told you that before you voted if you had have asked me. It’s not rocket science.

skybluetony176 · May 29, 2019

Sick Boy said:
Brexit party in talks to join far-right group in EU parliament

Maybe Grendull was right when he said voting for a party fronted by Nigel Ferage was a vote for a racist party.

skybluetony176 · May 29, 2019

djr8369 said:
Odd that he’s negotiating with all these different groups when supposedly his objective is to leave, very odd. It’s almost like he’s not fussed about leaving at all...

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Cash cow for Ferage. Why would he give that up so long as he’s got people to trick into voting for him. He’ll be gutted if we leave. Why else do you think he’s orchestrated a split of the left and right. The rise of the centre is is best hope of remaining as an MEP.

Ian1779 · May 29, 2019

SIR ERNIE said:
Compromise.
Funny how often this word crops up in Remainer speak isn’t it.
If Remain had won 52-48 I can easily imagine them saying ‘tell you what, it was a close result so let’s compromise and go for a soft Brexit’.

Equally I don’t believe if Remain had won 52-48 that the Leave campaign would have said - fair enough, we at least gave it a try. They would have played on the country essentially being split down the middle, and probably with fair comment.

Sick Boy · May 29, 2019

Ian1779 said:
Equally I don’t believe if Remain had won 52-48 that the Leave campaign would have said - fair enough, we at least gave it a try. They would have played on the country essentially being split down the middle, and probably with fair comment.

Farage said the same thing before the referendum, it’s just another case of hypocrisy.

Grendel · May 29, 2019

skybluetony176 said:
Maybe Grendull was right when he said voting for a party fronted by Nigel Ferage was a vote for a racist party.

At least spell his and my name correctly Tony or any even minimal comedic potential is lost

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · May 29, 2019

SIR ERNIE said:
Compromise.
Funny how often this word crops up in Remainer speak isn’t it.
If Remain had won 52-48 I can easily imagine them saying ‘tell you what, it was a close result so let’s compromise and go for a soft Brexit’.

The compromise has to come from within the Leave camp because people weren't sure what they were voting for as the leave campaign was bringing out all the wild theories on what they could get. Hard brexiteers won't go for anything other than no deal, soft Brexiteers won't go for no deal.

Had remain won the position would be clear - we remain. No ambiguity in the position so no 'compromise' needed. However there would be compromise offered in trying to get EU reform, which most people who wish to Remain admit is needed. They just wanted to be in the tent pissing out, not outside the tent being pissed on by all the remaining countries. Farage however seems content to be in the tent, pissing in it.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · May 29, 2019

Ian1779 said:
Equally I don’t believe if Remain had won 52-48 that the Leave campaign would have said - fair enough, we at least gave it a try. They would have played on the country essentially being split down the middle, and probably with fair comment.

Of course they'd be campaigning for another vote. Scottish independence vote just two years before Brexit back in the news again and has never really gone away. That was 55-45 for Remain. Do you reckon if they next voted to be independent 51-49 Sturgeon and the like would be saying it wasn't a conclusive result or a clear indication of the will of the people. Like fuck she would. She'd be saying "a majority voted independence so independence is what we're doing"

martcov · May 29, 2019

Grendel said:
He would in the type of society the Eu militants crave

For lying to wind people up so they crash the country. The work of a real traitor. He deserves a heavy punishment for the damage that he and his campaign have already caused and the rest that is to come.

Astute · May 30, 2019

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
The compromise has to come from within the Leave camp because people weren't sure what they were voting for as the leave campaign was bringing out all the wild theories on what they could get. Hard brexiteers won't go for anything other than no deal, soft Brexiteers won't go for no deal.

Had remain won the position would be clear - we remain. No ambiguity in the position so no 'compromise' needed. However there would be compromise offered in trying to get EU reform, which most people who wish to Remain admit is needed. They just wanted to be in the tent pissing out, not outside the tent being pissed on by all the remaining countries. Farage however seems content to be in the tent, pissing in it.

Your user name is very apt with this post.

So half the population didn't know what they voted for yet the other half.....the half you so desperately want... ..knew exactly what they were voting for?

That could be used as a throwaway comment by both sides.

Everybody knows that reform in the EU is desperately needed. But reforms in the EU won't happen to the benefit to those in the EU. They break their own rules, regulations and laws to keep it going. When caught out they say they did nothing wrong after an enquiry. Then after another enquiry they admit the charge. But they refused to do anything. Then there is a cote with the members of the EU. Only 12 out of over 500 say it should be reversed. Nothing happens.

So what makes you think there will ever be reform in the way needed? All the leaders of the countries in the EU say reform is needed. It isn't a surprise that reform is needed. But those who run the EU only give top jobs to those who want to continue the status quo.

Did those who voted remain vote for this? If not did they vote remain not knowing what they voted for?

Ah yes I hear I am a leaver because I can see the argument on both sides. But comments like those you have made cause damage between the two sides. 'You voted leave so you didn't have a clue what you voted for' becomes someone calling them thick as they didn't vote what someone else wanted.

My whole family is moving to France next month. Could someone try to explain why I am such a staunch leaver when we are moving to an EU country?

The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (7 Viewers)

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