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The Butts - CRFC Confirms it is willing to join mediation talks (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter ccfc92
  • Start date Mar 20, 2017
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dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #176
Grendel said:
You seem very agitated - whats wrong?
Click to expand...

Actually having a very good day today, so far. Been a while since I have had one like today. It's amazing what a bit of sun does for you.
Also I always enjoy a good debate on here, it never agitates me it's actually quite cathartic.
How's things with you?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #177
Sub said:
wouldnt they have to pay all the bills in the period of time that SISU (CCFC) use the stadium for football related things ? basically the same as at the wasp nest all be it at a cheaper rate?
Click to expand...

You would assume so.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #178
chiefdave said:
No, we need revenue access.

You would have to assume that Sharp sees this as a as good, if not better, option or he wouldn't be open to the idea.
Click to expand...

You would think so, so would it also be safe to assume that there has been a timescale put on this already? I can't see CRFC waiting forever when they have an alternative plan available to them.
 
C

Chipfat

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #179
Like all things Sisu the proof is in the pudding and as of yet they have failed at every hurdle regarding the running of the football club when it comes to making deals for the good of the club. If JR2 goes ahead i would imagine any meetings with all parties will not be cordial or progressive and become the stumbling block to go ahead with any sort of deal. The CRFC dont need CCFC, they are set up and need the CCC more in terms of any further development of the area. Its an opinion but one founded on if they didn't want friends high in council chambers they would of certainly of gone forward and work with SIsu without due care and attention of issues down the line.

So the fact Sisu want round the table is an indication that they have come to understand moving away doesn't work, not having fan, business and political relationship within the city doesn't work. They still are in trouble as you can't take parties to court than stamp your feet when the people concerned don't want to play ball unless the threat goes away, its still a mess but at least most of the parties are willing to talk which is a start.

As for the meeting again Tim got an easy ride, he is very good at hiding comments that should be noted and making a louder noise to take everyone off topic. He is an illusionist and plays the part very well especially as the audience are keen to encourage the distraction instead of watching his hand. By abusing him, shouting at him or generally given him opportunity to pivot away from topics he should answer, he takes it as a get out of jail free card.

I would be more worried about his talk of the academy, general status of the club, funding the future and what is the plan of being in L2, instead he throws the butts at us and again all are talking about a possibility more so then what as a club is our immediate future. Tim would of slept easy last night and laughed while walking his dog before hitting the pillow, while we are still fighting over the dream world in Tims head. We need to get Tim with a small group of people with vetted questions and the ability to go back and fact check his words and timelines, not a crowd baying for blood and shouting abuse, i understand the feeling but do not see how abuse create any good debate or getting to what we are all searching for, the answers of what is really going on. Tim is good at this format, but by fuck we make it easy for him to escape.
 
Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
Reactions: colin101, Irish Sky Blue, Astute and 5 others

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #180
General consensus would seem to be that the fans would be behind it. If it can be shown to be the best option, to actually work then it gets a yes from me.

So over to Mr Fisher then ............... what are you going to do to drive it forward, and what is it you are actually asking us to back.............. what's the plan, lay it out and win the support, answer the questions properly with detail. If it is the future of our club test the Council resolve on it.

Put up or shut up

Similarly the Council, make Fisher/SISU put up or shut up, simply ask for the detail of the project and when the planning application can be expected. Test the SISU/Fisher commitment to it - they have the funding apparently so where is the issue?
 
Reactions: colin101, Astute, Chipfat and 7 others
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bradwellskyblues

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #181
I watched online and chipfat your summary is 100% correct last night was a massive opportunity to get more info on bpa finance etc
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #182
oldskyblue58 said:
General consensus would seem to be that the fans would be behind it. If it can be shown to be the best option, to actually work then it gets a yes from me.

So over to Mr Fisher then ............... what are you going to do to drive it forward, and what is it you are actually asking us to back.............. what's the plan, lay it out and win the support, answer the questions properly with detail. If it is the future of our club test the Council resolve on it.

Put up or shut up

Similarly the Council, make Fisher/SISU put up or shut up, simply ask for the detail of the project and when the planning application can be expected. Test the SISU/Fisher commitment to it - they have the funding apparently so where is the issue?
Click to expand...

Exactly.

It's so easy for people to just say "It's never going to happen and leave it at that". Get behind it and force him to show things.
 
Reactions: torchomatic

albatross

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #183
oldskyblue58 said:
General consensus would seem to be that the fans would be behind it. If it can be shown to be the best option, to actually work then it gets a yes from me.

So over to Mr Fisher then ............... what are you going to do to drive it forward, and what is it you are actually asking us to back.............. what's the plan, lay it out and win the support, answer the questions properly with detail. If it is the future of our club test the Council resolve on it.

Put up or shut up

Similarly the Council, make Fisher/SISU put up or shut up, simply ask for the detail of the project and when the planning application can be expected. Test the SISU/Fisher commitment to it - they have the funding apparently so where is the issue?
Click to expand...

OSB58 Agree with calling them out but..

If you were CRFC how would you feel about the business risk presented to you by CCFC (Otium) considering they are only operating because the loans have not yet been called in. I don't think I would be comfortable in developing the ground to accommodate the football club with the prospect of the club's creditors distressing the football club and indirectly distressing CRFC. Not that have a history of this at all
 
K

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #184
I really can't see the butts happening. It's all very nice and pretty but it's smacks of look at this and not at this. Let's sell a dream about a city center lcoation and a new project and take the attention away from relegation, a shit team, no academy, selling ryton perhaps and homeless in a year. Take your pick. What is everyone now talking about? The butts. It's brilliant. Spout off about how crushed joy is and let the fans fight amongst themselves.

Tim fisher was a magician in a previous life. Misdirection. Actions speak louder than words and I've heard lots of talk and no action. Excuse me for being sceptical.
 
Reactions: colin101
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Woz01

Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #185
skybluetony176 said:
Bollocks. Look at the court case the owners of Mildenhall stadium lost to newbies that moved into the area. It has basically bankrupted them and this was all about noise from the stadium from a house that are both in the flight path of RAF Mildenhall where military planes are allowed to take off twenty four seven 365.
Click to expand...
Mildenhall is still running but as I understand it there are still issues.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #186
Kingokings204 said:
I really can't see the butts happening. It's all very nice and pretty but it's smacks of look at this and not at this. Let's sell a dream about a city center lcoation and a new project and take the attention away from relegation, a shit team, no academy, selling ryton perhaps and homeless in a year. Take your pick. What is everyone now talking about? The butts. It's brilliant. Spout off about how crushed joy is and let the fans fight amongst themselves.

Tim fisher was a magician in a previous life. Misdirection. Actions speak louder than words and I've heard lots of talk and no action. Excuse me for being sceptical.
Click to expand...

Yes, people talk about it now because that's just happened.

We will play tonight and the talk will be about that.

You do realise people don't forget one thing because of something else.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #187
Grendel said:
As old fiver has pointed out to you the planning permission is already in place.
Seem very agitated today Tony?
Click to expand...

What level of planning approval does it have? You do realise there's more than one don't you? Does this approval include the right to play professional football at the site? Because if it doesn't (and I think we all know the answer to that one) from a CCFC perspective (unless the plan that you're salivating over despite not knowing the details includes becoming a non league team) are worthless because they don't include us. That means new plan's have to be submitted starting the process all over again which actually means that there isn't planning permission to build a 15k stadium on the site that we can play at.

Some questions for you as you're so clever. If there is planning permission for a 15k stadium why is everyone talking about 12k? Old fiver also insists that there are plans also drawn up for a 25k stadium at the site. If that's true why isn't there an outline application in for a 25k thus future proofing the site for future expansion if and when needed? Are we really going to invest millions on building 12-15k stadium on the presumption that at some point in the future we can expand to 25k because someone can draw a picture of something and say that will work? As Ricky Gervais pointed out to people who claim that Leonardo da Vinci invented the helicopter drawing a picture of something and saying that will work is inventing nothing. Same goes with drawings of football stadium's or any major building project. There has to be a solution to make it happen.
 
Last edited: Mar 21, 2017

Nick

Administrator
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #188
skybluetony176 said:
What level of planning approval does it have? You do realise there's more than one don't you? Does this approval include the right to play professional football at the site? Because if it doesn't (and I think we all know the answer to that one) from a CCFC perspective (unless the plan that you're salivating over despite not knowing the details includes becoming a non league team) are worthless because they don't include us. That means new plan's have to be submitted starting the process all over again which actually means that there isn't planning permission to build a 15k stadium on the site that we can play at.

Some questions for you as you're so clever. If there is planning permission for a 15k stadium why is everyone talking about 12k? Old fiver also insists that there are plans also drawn up for a 25k stadium at the site. If that's true why isn't there an outline application in for a 25k thus future proofing the site for future expansion if and when needed? Ate we really going to invest millions on building 12-15k stadium on the presumption that at some point in the future we can expand to 25k because someone can draw a picture of something and say that will work? As Ricky Gervais pointed out to people who claim that Leonardo da Vinci invented the helicopter drawing a picture of something and saying that will work is inventing nothing. Same goes with drawings of football stadium's or any major building project. There has to be a solution to make it happen.
Click to expand...

Does the lease state that pro football can't be played there then? Unless you are insinuating that the council would only approve it if pro football was blocked?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #189
skybluetony176 said:
What level of planning approval does it have? You do realise there's more than one don't you? Does this approval include the right to play professional football at the site? Because if it doesn't (and I think we all know the answer to that one) from a CCFC perspective (unless the plan that you're salivating over despite not knowing the details includes becoming a non league team) are worthless because they don't include us. That means new plan's have to be submitted starting the process all over again which actually means that there isn't planning permission to build a 15k stadium on the site that we can play at.

Some questions for you as you're so clever. If there is planning permission for a 15k stadium why is everyone talking about 12k? Old fiver also insists that there are plans also drawn up for a 25k stadium at the site. If that's true why isn't there an outline application in for a 25k thus future proofing the site for future expansion if and when needed? Ate we really going to invest millions on building 12-15k stadium on the presumption that at some point in the future we can expand to 25k because someone can draw a picture of something and say that will work? As Ricky Gervais pointed out to people who claim that Leonardo da Vinci invented the helicopter drawing a picture of something and saying that will work is inventing nothing. Same goes with drawings of football stadium's or any major building project. There has to be a solution to make it happen.
Click to expand...

It's a stadium and premises, it doesn't need planning approval to play football there. Christ, you really are a simpleton. Wasps didn't need planning permission to move to the Ricoh for example.
 
Reactions: torchomatic
W

Woz01

Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #190
chiefdave said:
If you read between the lines of what Sharp said when announcing Cov Utd playing there that will stop if we move there.

Bears is in the summer so less of an issue, hasn't there been rumours of Wasps wanting them at the Ricoh?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't be surprised to see a Midlands based super league side in future. They always talk about expanding wider in the uk
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #191
AFCCOVENTRY said:
The stadium to get some extra capacity would have to be sunk below ground level.
.
Click to expand...
Not really. Basic trigonometry will tell you that the stadium footprint will be the same regardless how deep you go.
You would need to make the seating steeper to get more in the same footprint. (Vertical in BPA case)
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #192
Nick said:
Would still get 365 revenue wouldn't it?
Click to expand...

Who knows? Sound bites do not equal a strategic business plan that's been agreed and signed by all parties that are or will be involved. It's all very wishy-washy at the moment wouldn't you agree?
 

Joy Division

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #193
Can somebody show me where this 10-12k application that's is already in place?
 
Reactions: Astute and Monners
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weecohawena

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #194
This is all make believe.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #195
Deleted member 5849 said:
Wasps' arrival means do something or die, I'd assume.
Click to expand...

Could also be do something and die. This is my worry. It get's built at huge investment and then doesn't produce enough revenue to support the debt, CRFC or CCFC. All three go to the wall and Wasps have Coventry to themselves. This development if it happens could yet prove to stand as a gift to Wasps at the expense of CRFC and CCFC.
 
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weecohawena

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #196
Nothing is going to happen.
 
Reactions: singers_pore

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #197
Broken Hearted Sky Blue said:
What happens to Jimmys statue,the garden of remembrance and my brick?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't worry. The experts on here have already said it will never happen anyway.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #198
clint van damme said:
quite possibly NW.
Could it also mean the end to loaning of wasps players to CRFC? How important is that arrangement to Cov? I'll be honest, other than looking at their results I don't really follow them.
Click to expand...

CRFC have had a couple of good players from Wasps this season, but as a fan of Cov I don't think it's critical to them. In truth there's no guarantee it wouldn't continue in any case; the loan arrangements generally suit both clubs and regardless, there's more than one Premiership team that Cov could loan from.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #199
These are some earlier approved plans for the stadium on the site of the Butts: Coventry City Council: Planning Application Details

Those plans approved 3 stands with no specified capacities, though the general form of the stands is on the application.

Some interesting objections when read today, considering that subsequent to these plans the office blocks adjacent to the Butts College were built (instead of student apartments).
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #200
http://planning.coventry.gov.uk/portal/servlets/AttachmentShowServlet?ImageName=512044
 
C

Chipfat

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #201
fernandopartridge said:
It's a stadium and premises, it doesn't need planning approval to play football there. Christ, you really are a simpleton. Wasps didn't need planning permission to move to the Ricoh for example.
Click to expand...

Gren why do you revert to insults like, idiot, simpleton or ant other worthless comment, other than just making your point. You are as bad as those allowing Tim off last night with questions that have to be answered. You have some valid points, but instead of just sticking to the topic you abuse and just come across hard to agree with because of the abuse you wrap most replies in.

You seem a clever fella why spoil it, debate, talk give an opinion its makes it easier for someone then to agree.
 
Reactions: Astute

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #202
Further to my last post, the plans are for a 10k capacity stadium, just spotted something in one of the objections.The file linked below contains some drawings:

http://planning.coventry.gov.uk/portal/servlets/AttachmentShowServlet?ImageName=512044
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #203
Woz01 said:
Mildenhall is still running but as I understand it there are still issues.
Click to expand...

There is in some regards. They have a strict curfew (9pm) I think which limits the number of formulas and races at a meeting and face fines if they break it, they've had to build a special fence around the stadium at huge cost to try and keep the noise in and that's before you consider the huge financial burden the family who own it (if ever there was an omen the family that owns it surname is Coventry, I kid you not).

This all stemmed from a couple who moved into the area claimed that they didn't realise that there was a motorsport venue near by that's been a motorsport venue for almost a hundred years, Mildenhalls owners having sworn affidavits from both the estate agent and previous owners of the house saying that they were informed with the initial enquiry about the house and at the viewing by the owners that the venue was there and also you can't drive to this house or indeed the village of Mildenhall without passing advertising boards and direction signs for the stadium.

Anyone who thinks that the residents by the BPA won't have a say in the planning application or restrictions on the site that allow the planning to go through are quite frankly clueless.
 
Reactions: Astute

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #204
1997 - Coventry Crusaders (remember them) wanted to build their own venue on the site: http://planning.coventry.gov.uk/portal/servlets/AttachmentShowServlet?ImageName=10988
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #205
fernandopartridge said:
It's a stadium and premises, it doesn't need planning approval to play football there. Christ, you really are a simpleton. Wasps didn't need planning permission to move to the Ricoh for example.
Click to expand...

Because the site already had approval as a multi-use site. I ain't as simple as you are trying to make out. Neither is developing the BPA.
 

Joy Division

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #206
Nick said:
http://planning.coventry.gov.uk/portal/servlets/AttachmentShowServlet?ImageName=512044
Click to expand...

Pretty sure most of these applications for a proposed bigger Butts Stadium will have expired a long time ago. Planning permission would have to be re-submitted.
 
Reactions: Astute, skybluetony176 and Monners

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #207
skybluetony176 said:
What level of planning approval does it have? You do realise there's more than one don't you? Does this approval include the right to play professional football at the site? Because if it doesn't (and I think we all know the answer to that one) from a CCFC perspective (unless the plan that you're salivating over despite not knowing the details includes becoming a non league team) are worthless because they don't include us. That means new plan's have to be submitted starting the process all over again which actually means that there isn't planning permission to build a 15k stadium on the site that we can play at.

Some questions for you as you're so clever. If there is planning permission for a 15k stadium why is everyone talking about 12k? Old fiver also insists that there are plans also drawn up for a 25k stadium at the site. If that's true why isn't there an outline application in for a 25k thus future proofing the site for future expansion if and when needed? Are we really going to invest millions on building 12-15k stadium on the presumption that at some point in the future we can expand to 25k because someone can draw a picture of something and say that will work? As Ricky Gervais pointed out to people who claim that Leonardo da Vinci invented the helicopter drawing a picture of something and saying that will work is inventing nothing. Same goes with drawings of football stadium's or any major building project. There has to be a solution to make it happen.
Click to expand...

It doesnt need planning permission to play professional football. I gave up reading your tripe after that.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #208
My cynicism regarding the planning process is unbounded (with apologies to those who work in the field). It always seems to me that the odds are stacked heavily in the developer's favour - given I quite like the idea of a stadium at the Butts, perhaps, for once, that's to our advantage....

... if I believed this is ever really likely to happen, which in truth I guess I don't... but I'd be OK with it if it did. Others differ, obviously.
 

Voice_of_Reason

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #209
Grendel said:
It doesnt need planning permission to play professional football. I gave up reading your tripe after that.
Click to expand...
Am I right to assume all this will go tits up if SISU don't withdraw all legal claims ?
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Mar 21, 2017
  • #210
Voice_of_Reason said:
Am I right to assume all this will go tits up if SISU don't withdraw all legal claims ?
Click to expand...

No - the JR2 sits entirely separate to this. The council couldn't be seen to deny PP just because SISU are taking them to court. They could make it much harder though, I'm sure.
 
Reactions: Astute and Voice_of_Reason
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