Tesco car park (1 Viewer)

Quite. No arguments there. I hope they do bid and get a piece of the action. Still better than 100% Wasps ownership IMHO.

letsallsingtogether said:

Torch they haven't made a bid yet that is fact, how can they own if they don't bid?

Click to expand...

Nick said:

Sisu is saving us

I stand the camp that all parties have fucked up, all are only in it for themselves and it's only the fans who actually care.

I've never once made a silly graphic loving sisu or done or said anything close, yet people who have now throw crap about

Click to expand...

I cannot be accused of that, I've always hated the barstewards and always will even after they have gone.

Astute said:

I have dear.

The 5.5m was an agreed price for Higgs where it was agreed that SISU would go into partnership with CCC. No veto was used as all sides were in agreement.....until Joy decided to offer the payments over 10 years with no guarantee of funds. When this was turned down Joy said that the arena was worthless but she would give Higgs 2m as they are a charity. Judge Higgingbottom pulled her up on this. After these offers were turned down it became all about the freehold or nothing.

You would know all of this if you had read the court transcripts dear.

Click to expand...

You've just repeated what I said but with further detail.

The heads of terms was merely how the deal would be made (SISU to buy out the loan > purchase Higgs share). It wasn't an explicit figure as that agreement is between Higgs and SISU. The HoT included the Council.


You're so obtuse at times, dear. One might even think you're a bit simple. Or maybe we are at cross purposes and taking about two different things. (HoT against indicative terms sheet).

You are right. I don't get your point.

5.5m was offered. Higgs were happy with the 5.5m and thought there was a deal to be had. SISU agreed to pay Higgs costs up to a certain amount...... It was all in the court transcripts dear. So yes an amount was agreed. But as usual SISU went back on what was agreed.

Astute said:

You are right. I don't get your point.

5.5m was offered. Higgs were happy with the 5.5m and thought there was a deal to be had. SISU agreed to pay Higgs costs up to a certain amount...... It was all in the court transcripts dear. So yes an amount was agreed. But as usual SISU went back on what was agreed.

Click to expand...

Thats the problem. Who in their right mind would deal with SISU ?
I want Ccfc to get 50 % but Wasps IMHO will not want to deal with them.
You can work it out for yourself that whilst SISU are here we are fuc5ed.

Astute said:

You are right. I don't get your point.

5.5m was offered. Higgs were happy with the 5.5m and thought there was a deal to be had. SISU agreed to pay Higgs costs up to a certain amount...... It was all in the court transcripts dear. So yes an amount was agreed. But as usual SISU went back on what was agreed.

Click to expand...

In hindsight. Were they right not to agree to pay 5.5m following due diligence?

(Not that it ultimately matters as the bank loan business killed the deal off anyway)

fernandopartridge said:

In hindsight. Were they right not to agree to pay 5.5m following due diligence?

(Not that it ultimately matters as the bank loan business killed the deal off anyway)

Click to expand...

In hindsight they were also wrong. They could have tried negotiating if they thought the price was too high. But negotiating isn't a word that Joy understands. So now egg chasers have 50% of the Ricoh. And SISU have wasted millions of our clubs money for nothing.

Or are you saying that SISU did the right thing?

Astute said:

In hindsight they were also wrong. They could have tried negotiating if they thought the price was too high. But negotiating isn't a word that Joy understands. So now egg chasers have 50% of the Ricoh. And SISU have wasted millions of our clubs money for nothing.

Or are you saying that SISU did the right thing?

Click to expand...

Negotiating is having a discussion with a view to reaching an agreement. They revised the offer presumably to illicit agreement (but then again maybe not).

Clearly, £5.5m over stated the value of 50% share. Otherwise why is the Wasps agreement for half of that amount.

fernandopartridge said:

Negotiating is having a discussion with a view to reaching an agreement. They revised the offer presumably to illicit agreement (but then again maybe not).

Clearly, £5.5m over stated the value of 50% share. Otherwise why is the Wasps agreement for half of that amount.

Click to expand...

Didn't somebody also within acl say it was way over the value also?

Nick said:

Didn't somebody also within acl say it was way over the value also?

Click to expand...

TBF it doesn't matter anymore.

Nick said:

Didn't somebody also within acl say it was way over the value also?

Click to expand...

I don't disagree.

But it all went wrong when Joy refused to negotiate. No rent paid. Litigation. Then it became the freehold or nothing. No offers made. Building our own stadium.

So what do we have now? Ongoing litigation. Wasps have 50% and looks to be 100% of the Ricoh. We are building our own stadium......although they would now like 50% of the Ricoh.

So yes it looks like they could have got the Higgs share for much less than the 5.5m agreed. But using bully tactics was not the way to go. But we are also guessing on how much Wasps will get the Higgs share for. Yes it could well be for the 2.7m that they got the CCC share for. But we don't know for sure.

And in hindsight I am supposed to believe that SISU did the right thing by not paying the 5.5m as it was 2.8m more than it could have been bought for? They have wasted more than 2.8m in litigation. And then how much was lost in reduced income last season? How much is still being lost in reduced income from those of us that won't go whilst SISU are still with us? Or because of the poor results as the money taken in from selling players and Arsenal games has been swallowed up and players not properly replaced?

They took millions in. Just 1m reinvested would have been a massive amount in this division. But no. SISU did the right thing as the share was sold for less than they had agreed :thinking about:

fernandopartridge said:

Negotiating is having a discussion with a view to reaching an agreement. They revised the offer presumably to illicit agreement (but then again maybe not).

Clearly, £5.5m over stated the value of 50% share. Otherwise why is the Wasps agreement for half of that amount.

Click to expand...

Does it matter if £5.5m is over priced?

bigfatronssba said:

Does it matter if £5.5m is over priced?

Click to expand...

Don't you think it's slightly galling that an out of town rugby franchise was handed a share of the Ricoh for half price?

bigfatronssba said:

Does it matter if £5.5m is over priced?

Click to expand...

It does when SISU not paying it is "getting it on the cheap / ripping off a children's charity". The same rules don't apply to out of town rugby teams.

fernandopartridge said:

It does when SISU not paying it is "getting it on the cheap / ripping off a children's charity". The same rules don't apply to out of town rugby teams.

Click to expand...

So SISU did the right thing because an egg chasing club that shouldn't be at the Ricoh have ended up with 50% and most probably 100% of ACL just because they were prepared to negotiate whilst SISU wasted more money than it would have cost?

Astute said:

So SISU did the right thing because an egg chasing club that shouldn't be at the Ricoh have ended up with 50% and most probably 100% of ACL just because they were prepared to negotiate whilst SISU wasted more money than it would have cost?

Click to expand...

I can't be bothered going over the same things time and time again. It's nothing to do with negotiation.

Sisu would have been the ones paying it. None of us support sisu, only ccfc.

So why get upset about sisu having to pay more?

SISU offered £5.5m on the basis that the loan would be reduced, can't remember the amount at the moment, but I think it was around £5m (happy to be corrected), so on that basis the SISU deal was £8m for 50%. £4m of the £5.5m was to be paid over a period of time.

The Wasps deal is reported to be £2.77m for each shareholder plus £14m loan, so this deal for 50% is £9.77m.

Higgs would have got more money from the original deal if security for the £4m was agreed, it wasn't, and also only in the event that the bank reduced the loan, they wouldn't.

So Higgs weren't offered in £5.5m in a way that could ever have happened. SISU weren't offering a deal that was valued at more than the reported Wasps offer.

Also, a small point, SISU didn't actually finish due diligence according to Deering.

bigfatronssba said:

Sisu would have been the ones paying it. None of us support sisu, only ccfc.

So why get upset about sisu having to pay more?

Click to expand...

Using your logic: Why would you be upset if AEHT or CCC 'lost out' in a deal to SISU?

covmark said:

Don't you think it's slightly galling that an out of town rugby franchise was handed a share of the Ricoh for half price?

Click to expand...

Personally i think this and everything else that SISU have done since the back track from the accepted £ 5.5M offer is a perfect demonstration on how not to close a business deal and everything you need to know about the ability of our owners on doing a takeover.

Do I like that Wasps are now taking controll of what should be our home ground. No, not in a million years. But what it does show you is how it can be done with the right people and the right attitude from the out set. That isn't Wasps fault, that isn't ACL's fault, that isn't Higgs fault, that isn't CCC's fault. It is only one parties fault and a few people around here need to start recognising that.

If SISU ever do tie up this deal for the Higgs share at an offer almost half of the £ 5.5M deal will that be because of SISU's negotiating skills or because an out of town Rugby franchise have paved the way for it to happen?

fernandopartridge said:

Using your logic: Why would you be upset if AEHT or CCC 'lost out' in a deal to SISU?

Click to expand...

I am upset that our club has lost out big time because of the way that SISU thought that they could do things their way. I am upset that CCC let Wasps have their share. And I don't see that it is right that some make excuses for them. And that means both of them.

I understand why SISU tried to steam roll everyone. I understand why CCC let Wasps have their share. It doesn't make it right though.

fernandopartridge said:

Using your logic: Why would you be upset if AEHT or CCC 'lost out' in a deal to SISU?

Click to expand...

Not at all.

I have only ever objected to sisu's mean's, not their end.

fernandopartridge said:

I can't be bothered going over the same things time and time again. It's nothing to do with negotiation.

Click to expand...

Totally agree with you there as Sisu don't do negotiations.

fernandopartridge said:

I can't be bothered going over the same things time and time again. It's nothing to do with negotiation.

Click to expand...

Of course you can't be bothered. Because it is all about lack of trust in SISU. And who can blame anyone for not trusting them?

Higgs would prefer to sell to Wasps. They have even said so. Is it a shock? Not at all. Look what happened last time that they tried to do a deal with SISU.

CCC sold their share to Wasps. Is it a shock? Not at all. Look at all the shit that has happened......and still hasn't finished whilst trying to deal with them. And SISU are still going to build a new stadium.

There is one thing I would find funny if it wasn't the future of our football club at stake. That is those that kept going on about the white elephant that the Ricoh was seen to be by some that had no value suddenly cry foul once it is sold, and then go on about hindsight and how SISU shouldn't have paid the 5.5m as agreed. But they will have lost more than 5.5m by taking our club to Northampton and the legal fees. And then saying it has nothing to do with SISU not negotiating.

Well what has it got to do with then?

SISU took a massive gamble. They were used to nearly everyone giving in when the litigation started. But this time they have taken on something of a much more high profile and against sides that are willing to defend themselves. Yet SISU see the best way forward is more pointless litigation. It is as though litigation is plan A, plan B, plan C...............

The CCC 50% is now gone. By the looks of it nothing can happen to this deal. A legal challenge looks as though it would have to show evidence as at the time the deal happened. And there is the JR result that shows that CCC were in the clear. And this would be the same for the Higgs share to be sold. So all that would be left would be even more pointless litigation and the building of Fishers new stadium. Well done SISU :jerkit: