Terrorist sympathiser here.......

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Indeed. I don't think he expected to win a majority and is now worried about the prospect of an Eu exit and as being remembered as the idiot who oversaw it.

His pumped up macho performance the other day was painful to watch, he really is vile. Still can't believe how many are influenced so much by the media in this country.

He doesn't even know what to call ISIS let alone how to deal with them. I still have memories of watching him grovel on Scottish TV just before the referendum begging for a No vote, and then making his remarks about the Queen 'purring' at the outcome. He is as sleezy and slimy as they come.

 

[rob9872]

Osbourne is a cretin.... he almost makes Cameron look electable.

Well reasoned argument, he speaks very highly of you...

 

[rob9872]

It's ok I've got it, we've found some more gold down the back of the sofa and need that shrewdie Brown back to flog it in a knock down fire sale

 

[Philosoraptor]

I do believe the Evening Harold sums it up perfectly.

http://eveningharold.com/2015/12/04/jeremy-corbyn-now-abandoned-by-everyone-apart-from-voters/

 

[rob9872]

They were always going to win that seat, it means nothing at all!

 

[rob9872]

In fact since the boundaries have been divided as this constituency it has been labour every single time.

 

[Sick Boy]

Are people still blaming Labour for the worldwide recession?

 

[Ian1779]

It's ok I've got it, we've found some more gold down the back of the sofa and need that shrewdie Brown back to flog it in a knock down fire sale

Like Osbourne sold off Royal Mail and now in the process of doing the same with one of the state owned banks. They're going at a fraction of the price to the Tory uber elite.

 

[Sick Boy]

Like Osbourne sold off Royal Mail and now in the process of doing the same with one of the state owned banks. They're going at a fraction of the price to the Tory uber elite.

It's entertaining to see how easily manipulated people are by the media without even realising.

They seem to be ignorant about what the Tories actually get up to

 

[mrtrench]

Are people still blaming Labour for the worldwide recession?

I guess there may be some. I'm just blaming Brown for the heavy contagion in UK banks and the perilous state he left the economy in so we couldn't ride the storm when it hit.

 

[mrtrench]

I'm going to explain my point in advance as I'm out most of the day.

Is Brown Culpable for the contagion?

In my opinion, yes. The classical explanation for the cause of the recession is poor lending decisions in the US. Loans were made that couldn't be paid back and then securitised (the risk was passed) via mortgage backed securities (MBS). They were securitised in packages by the US institutions Fanny Mae; Freddie Mac etc. They were then bought by UK banks (and others - and then sold on to clients) and derivatives such as Collateral Debt Obligations were created over that debt - effectively spreading the credit boom in the US globally, so that when those mortgages started to fail it hit the global economy.

However, Brown deregulated the UK banks. He was drunk on the tax income from the City and it's not a coincidence that the two banks most hit in the UK were Scottish. He wanted Scotland to be a big player in global finance and so he created the 'light touch regulation' (Brown’s own words) of the FSA to allow this to happen. Without this deregulation the UK banks wouldn't have been able to carry so much risk.
He also allowed/encouraged a credit boom to happen in the UK. His light touch regulation permitted the banks to lend more at higher risk. Surely we all remember the 0% credit cards with their 0% balance transfers? Mortgage lending also expanded at an unsustainable rate – causing house price inflation and the exponential increase in ‘Buy To Let’ – which again fuelled house price inflation.
However, it’s true to say that Greenspan was doing the same in the US, so he wasn’t the only one. But without doubt he did it.

Did Brown Place the UK Economy in a perilous state?
Again, yes – and not only by fuelling the credit boom. Had he saved all the income from the boom we’d have be in a much better position to ride the storm. But he didn’t. He spent the lot and then went on spending.
The deficit is the rate of change of UK borrowing (the first derivative of the debt by time). By looking at this we can see just what was happening to UK finances. When Brown came to power the economy was strong and there were effective spending controls. Brown promised to follow the Tories’ spending plans and did so for 5 years. So far, no problem. However in his second term he tore those plans up and the deficit increased every single year until 2010. That’s the RATE of CHANGE of the increase in the UK National debt was INCREASING (the second derivative). By the time the recession hit the UK owed far too much (the percentage of debt to GDP was similar to that of Greece at the time). This wasn’t essential debt that you have no option but to take during a recession – it was over-spending during a boom – a boom he created. ‘No More boom or bust’ he said – but his actions say otherwise.

And just to pre-empt ‘but the deficit increased even further after the Coalition came in’ – yes of course it did – WE WERE IN RECESSION.

 

[martcov]

The Right like Putin? Surprising but I would agree that there's little between them. What's the mood like generally in Germany? I have a terrible fear that this situation with Merkel accepting so many migrants is going to lead to deep unrest in Germany and the end of the EU at a minimum - possibly much worse.

Last polls I saw, AfD losing support, people generally trusting that Merkel will find a solution. Putin kicks arse. The right like that. There are great regional differences in Germany. In the East many think of Merkel as a traitor. Less so where I am in the north west. No-one is happy, but some see the human side and others, especially in the East, feel overridden- not just about refugees. Populists in the East are using the same language and arguments as Göbels. Nobody would have done that in public in the old west Germany - except neo-nazis. Now you see the people in talk shows on TV. My staff in the East when I am there, will vote AfD ( a sort of UKIP, but becoming more and more right wing ). I was asked to go on a Legida "walk about" in Leipzig last Monday, but I said I will not walk with the "brown" ( Nazi ) people who are usurping that movement for their purposes ( I wouldn't walk with them against Merkel anyway ). My staff see AfD as a chance to show their discontent and don't ( or don't want to ) see the risks of going down that path - as their forefathers who made the same mistake in the last century.

 

[chiefdave]

Melchett: David Cameron has formulated a brilliant new tactical plan to ensure final victory in the field.

Blackadder: Ah. Would this brilliant plan involve us bombing the shit out of Syria?

Captain Darling: How could you possibly know that, Blackadder? It's classified information!

Blackadder: It's the same plan that we used last time and the seventeen times before that.

Melchett: Exactly! And that is what is so brilliant about it! It will catch the watchful ISIS totally off guard! Doing precisely what we've done eighteen times before is exactly the last thing they'll expect us to do this time! There is, however, one small problem.

Blackadder: That innocent people get killed & displaced, which is exactly what ISIS wants!?

Melchett: That's right. And David Cameron is worried this may be depressing the country a tad. So he's looking for a way to cheer people up.

Blackadder: Well, his resignation seems the obvious choice.

Melchett: Hmm, interesting thought. Make a note of it, Darling.

 

[Sick Boy]

Haha very good!

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Cameron's resignation sounds lovely but look what is likely to be next George The Cutter Osborne or Boris The Bufoon Johnson or we could be really lucky and get Theresa May cricky or politics is in a bad way.

 

[wingy]

Cameron's resignation sounds lovely but look what is likely to be next George The Cutter Osborne or Boris The Bufoon Johnson or we could be really lucky and get Theresa May cricky or politics is in a bad way.

Yeah but look at the Yanks, they might get Trump.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Yeah but look at the Yanks, they might get Trump.

The end of the world is near then

 

[Sick Boy]

All 3 of them are vile to say the least.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Very funny, but actually the alleged incompetent nincompoop British General Staff in WWI after a few years of screw ups figured out exactly what to do, they engaged in a horrible war of strategic attrition which led to Germanys collapse. They won didn't they!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwone/lions_donkeys_01.shtml

 

[mrtrench]

Last polls I saw, AfD losing support, people generally trusting that Merkel will find a solution. Putin kicks arse. The right like that. There are great regional differences in Germany. In the East many think of Merkel as a traitor. Less so where I am in the north west. No-one is happy, but some see the human side and others, especially in the East, feel overridden- not just about refugees. Populists in the East are using the same language and arguments as Göbels. Nobody would have done that in public in the old west Germany - except neo-nazis. Now you see the people in talk shows on TV. My staff in the East when I am there, will vote AfD ( a sort of UKIP, but becoming more and more right wing ). I was asked to go on a Legida "walk about" in Leipzig last Monday, but I said I will not walk with the "brown" ( Nazi ) people who are usurping that movement for their purposes ( I wouldn't walk with them against Merkel anyway ). My staff see AfD as a chance to show their discontent and don't ( or don't want to ) see the risks of going down that path - as their forefathers who made the same mistake in the last century.

I won't 'like' your post because I don't like the content. But thanks for the insight.

 

[Colin1883]

Ah what to do? Corbyn stance, bend over and take a pipe bomb up the,,, or Cameron shove one up theirs?

 

[martcov]

Very funny, but actually the alleged incompetent nincompoop British General Staff in WWI after a few years of screw ups figured out exactly what to do, they engaged in a horrible war of strategic attrition which led to Germanys collapse. They won didn't they!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwone/lions_donkeys_01.shtml

Germany had to fight Russia til 1917. Their population was starving by 1918. Not just what happened on the Western front.

 

[Macca]

The military action is tokenism at best to throw people off the scent.

 

[martcov]

I won't 'like' your post because I don't like the content. But thanks for the insight.

Should I have "walked" with "das braune Volk"? The EDL ex-leader Robinson is back. He has been to Pegida "walks" and wants to build up a "Pegida UK" after the Dresdener version. He wants people be able to bring their children to Pegida "walks". I am for "hitting" the bad and the dangerous, but it is a small step to dehumanising all people of a certain religion. That could turn us into the "bad" and dangerous - so I will not take part on these protests if asked.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Germany had to fight Russia til 1917. Their population was starving by 1918. Not just what happened on the Western front.

Indeed, and when Russia packed in many German Divisions were transferred to the Western Front (and the GHC launched a spring offensive as a last roll of the dice). They still lost. The entire situation was of their own making, Germany declared war on Russia on 1 Aug 1914, attacked Luxembourg the following day and declared war on France the day after. GB entered war the next day.

 

[Ian1779]

Well reasoned argument, he speaks very highly of you...

I don't know whats worse.. the bollocks that he spouts or the fact he genuinely believes 'we're all in it together'

 

[rob9872]

Or the fact that thanks to the years of brown we are all in it together!

 

[Ian1779]

Or the fact that thanks to the years of brown we are all in it together!

But we aren't... Just us lot whilst the über rich get richer and kids live in poverty in 21st century England....

 

[oakey]

Still, the Tories have increased their lead in opinion polls so all must be well.

 

[rob9872]

But we aren't... Just us lot whilst the über rich get richer and kids live in poverty in 21st century England....

Mine don't and judging by the fact that you're posting on a phone or computer from within a house with electricity and an internet connection, I'm guessing yours don't either. For most of us there are choices.

More jobs, better conditions and pay for those willing to work, less handouts for those who think we owe them a living.

Economic growth, a commitment to reduce debt, low inflation, low unemployment, I could go on. You can level many things at the Conservatives about views on them being ruthless I'll even accept war mongering in some cases, but let's not pretend the economy is ever in better hands. Have labour ever left the country in a better state than before it was elected? Certainly not in my lifetime.

 

[mrtrench]

Mine don't and judging by the fact that you're posting on a phone or computer from within a house with electricity and an internet connection, I'm guessing yours don't either. For most of us there are choices.

More jobs, better conditions and pay for those willing to work, less handouts for those who think we owe them a living.

Economic growth, a commitment to reduce debt, low inflation, low unemployment, I could go on. You can level many things at the Conservatives about views on them being ruthless I'll even accept war mongering in some cases, but let's not pretend the economy is ever in better hands. Have labour ever left the country in a better state than before it was elected? Certainly not in my lifetime.

I agree. There's many things I dislike about the Tories: Fox Hunting; Section 28 (Thatcher); their right wing loonies - but without a strong economy the whole country's fucked. The legacy from 2010 needs a shot of the adults running the economy for a time. This is why Labour needs David Miliband - without a strong opposition we'll start to see more of their bad side.

 

[oakey]

Mine don't and judging by the fact that you're posting on a phone or computer from within a house with electricity and an internet connection, I'm guessing yours don't either. For most of us there are choices.

More jobs, better conditions and pay for those willing to work, less handouts for those who think we owe them a living.

Economic growth, a commitment to reduce debt, low inflation, low unemployment, I could go on. You can level many things at the Conservatives about views on them being ruthless I'll even accept war mongering in some cases, but let's not pretend the economy is ever in better hands. Have labour ever left the country in a better state than before it was elected? Certainly not in my lifetime.

Labour has always left the country in a better state. People who believe the tories are good on the economy ignore public goods, such as roads, rail, hospitals, schools, libraries, parks and leisure, which all deteriorate significantly under Tory governments. It is one of the most corrosive myths of our times that the tories are good on the economy. They're not. Even trickle down isn't working anymore. Those who don't own anything have very precarious finances. If you own stuff you feel safe as your assets are worth more. I own stuff so I should be a Tory but I hate to see those without squeezed, whilst the recession has left me untouched.

 

[rondog1973]

Mine don't and judging by the fact that you're posting on a phone or computer from within a house with electricity and an internet connection, I'm guessing yours don't either. For most of us there are choices.

More jobs, better conditions and pay for those willing to work, less handouts for those who think we owe them a living.

Economic growth, a commitment to reduce debt, low inflation, low unemployment, I could go on. You can level many things at the Conservatives about views on them being ruthless I'll even accept war mongering in some cases, but let's not pretend the economy is ever in better hands. Have labour ever left the country in a better state than before it was elected? Certainly not in my lifetime.

Are you serious?

You are aware I take it of the number of companies with zero hours employees as the bulk of their workforce (Have worked for two companies in the past year where temporary labour accounted for more than 70% of this). Not to mention the Tories attempted reduction of the ballot percentage for industrial action by Trade Unions when they were only given a mandate by 37% of the electorate!

Dismantling of the NHS, Privatisation of Utilities, the failure to pursue tax evasion by the heads of business (an area where the deficit could be sufficiently reduced), the increase in food banks, I could go on.....

Also think that in a country as rich and developed as ours, being housed in a home with electricity is something all of its natives should have reasonable expectations of.

 

[mrtrench]

Labour has always left the country in a better state. People who believe the tories are good on the economy ignore public goods, such as roads, rail, hospitals, schools, libraries, parks and leisure, which all deteriorate significantly under Tory governments. It is one of the most corrosive myths of our times that the tories are good on the economy. They're not. Even trickle down isn't working anymore. Those who don't own anything have very precarious finances. If you own stuff you feel safe as your assets are worth more. I own stuff so I should be a Tory but I hate to see those without squeezed, whilst the recession has left me untouched.

Clement Atlee did but then growth continued after Anthony Eden took over. So I'll give you that one.
Nobody could claim that Wilson/Callaghan did, surely? They nearly brought the country to it's knees - although Heath did just as badly.
And Brown/Balls certainly didn't. They inherited a strong economy and trashed it.

Yes, I accept your point that Labour governments spend more on public goods. Unfortunately that isn't the same thing as the economy.

I also think that global circumstances have to be taken into account and play a huge part in the success of the UK - and that the part played by a government is small in comparison. Therefore we have to judge over long periods. Other than the New Labour tenure, have Labour ever had a long uninterrupted period in power? The closest would be Wilson and Callaghan for two terms and they made as big a hash of it as Brown did.

So, I accept your point that they spend more on the public. Do you accept that they have never managed the economy well, Atlee aside (and he only had one term so we don't know what would have happened had he stayed)?

EDIT: One more point: it's the nature of government to leave when you are doing badly - otherwise why would they be beaten in the election?

 

[Ian1779]

Mine don't and judging by the fact that you're posting on a phone or computer from within a house with electricity and an internet connection, I'm guessing yours don't either. For most of us there are choices.

More jobs, better conditions and pay for those willing to work, less handouts for those who think we owe them a living.

Economic growth, a commitment to reduce debt, low inflation, low unemployment, I could go on. You can level many things at the Conservatives about views on them being ruthless I'll even accept war mongering in some cases, but let's not pretend the economy is ever in better hands. Have labour ever left the country in a better state than before it was elected? Certainly not in my lifetime.

I teach in an inner city school and see it on a daily basis - it is heartbreaking. Parents who work are having to choose between feeding their children or heating their homes. Where is the reward for what they put in?

My issue is the fact that there are lots of people in this country that believe building a high speed rail line (HS2 for example) is more important than ensuring that children living in our western modern society don't go hungry. 'Infastructure' is more important than directly targeting something which will have it's own legacy for them and the generations that follow.

Low unemployment is a lie - fudged by the zero hours contract

Labour under Blair and Brown did fuck up the economy - that does not mean that the Tories have got this right. Austerity is a choice - made by the few to force on the many.