Strategy (5 Viewers)

[Sky Blues]

It's gone a bit quiet in this corner of the forum recently and that's no bad thing as it means SISU for once don't seem to be ripping the heart out of this club.
Maybe SISU have decided to stick with us for now and sanctioned Fisher to pursue a strategy?
I might be in the realms of divining tea leaves, but I think that strategy might be becoming clearer.

First up, we've got the investment in the Cat 2 Acadamy. That suggests part A of the strategy is, "we can't buy our way out of this mess, so lets grow our way out of it". It might take longer, but it's better than being where Portsmouth are right now. As part of this, I think we as fans might have to accept the odd youngster being sold off here and there along the way, as with Bigi. But if they get a good price and if it is just one a season, can we live with that? If we're bringing through three or four good prospects a year, possibly yes.

The second element to the strategy is to bring in some older heads to help the youngsters along - but not just any older heads. Now, excluding Kilbane, the other players seem, from what has been suggested on this forum and written or recorded elsewhere, to have another potential dimension about them. They appear to be players in their mid-twenties who have not quite blossomed in the way that it was thought they might when they were younger.
If we take them on free transfer (I'm assuming the Fleck arrangement was a sell on clause) and it doesn't work out what have we lost? They are probably not on big wages if we are signing them.
If, on the other hand, they work out then their previous potential could see them command a bigger fee than if they had just been Johnny Lumpitupfield, who happens to have a good one-off season in League 1. You can imagine how it would be perceived: "Stephen Ellliot, who showed such promise in his early days at Sunderland, has finally overcome the injuries that plagued his career and become the player Mick McCarthy once thought he could be."
Sisu can then either sell them for that bigger fee or continue to get the benefit of players who probably would have been better than this league were it not for a lack of opportunities or injuries.

Or am I reading those tea leaves wrong?

 

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[Deleted member 4232]

Wall of text hits you for 65 damage.

You are dead.

 

[Deleted member 4232]

You're spot on with you post btw. It's a good business model, and I strongly believe in a good youth set up.

Fans don't like to see potentially good players leave, but we are not in any position at the moment to refuse any reasonable offer. At the end of the day, there are few clubs in the world who can turn down millions for players. Our stature at the moment lowers our 'breaking point'.

I'm happy with how business has been done this window, long may it continue.

 

[stevo_ccfc]

Funding the academy is really about developing assets that Sisu can sell, the best players will be sold before making a first team appearance so the club stays where it is but the money keeps rolling in

 

[Godiva]

Funding the academy is really about developing assets that Sisu can sell, the best players will be sold before making a first team appearance so the club stays where it is but the money keeps rolling in

Funding the academy is really about developing assets that the club can sell, the best players will be sold after making first team appearances and raising their value so the club can survive and stop the money keep rolling out.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Funding the academy is certainly part of the right strategy forward, would find it hard to disagree with that.

Think we should bear in mind that the academy has been funded for a number of years .... it isnt as if they have suddenly done it. The impression has been given that they SISU/CCFC have found £500k from the Bigi sale to invest.... isnt really the case is it. Last season I would bet that academy costs were north of £250k by committing to minimum time coaching and moving money around the budget ( £240k tops) they attracted a grant of £486K to meet the Category 2 requirement this year. It would also depend how you allocate existing costs to the academy to make it stack up.

Definitely the right way forward .......... but a great change of direction by the club or new investment ?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Was our academy category 3 then last year?

What are the main benefits of category 2 academy?

 

[wingy]

Concur with all the above ,but the presentation was misleading.We are now a stand alone entity and this has been generated through the Club ,for the Club.No Sisu fingerprints here.

 

[shmmeee]

Um for all intents and purposes Sisu and the club are one and the same. The sooner people realise that the sooner we can get back to sensible discussion.

There is no "money for Sisu" from player sales, just money for CCFC.

 

[wingy]

Um for all intents and purposes Sisu and the club are one and the same. The sooner people realise that the sooner we can get back to sensible discussion.

There is no "money for Sisu" from player sales, just money for CCFC.

Not so sure about that Shmmeee,.Its widely accepted that Sisu in saving the club have put us back on our knees,therefore its possible to argue that conversely the club are now saving Sisu

 

[oldskyblue58]

Was our academy category 3 then last year?

What are the main benefits of category 2 academy?

my understanding is that this a new categorisation for coming season CCFC

benefits are that if you invest more you attract better players and compete in matches against similar level or better so keeping development standards up. the better the standard of academy the better long term prospects for developing our own players to a good standard

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

my understanding is that this a new categorisation for coming season CCFC

benefits are that if you invest more you attract better players and compete in matches against similar level or better so keeping development standards up. the better the standard of academy the better long term prospects for developing our own players to a good standard

Ah ok so this category thingy is a newly introduced system. Bet there isn't too many league 1 clubs with a category 2 imp:
Thanks

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

As it goes, Newcastle's academy only managed cat 2 status-so Bigi will be back playing against us before too long!

 

[stupot07]

As it goes, Newcastle's academy only managed cat 2 status-so Bigi will be back playing against us before too long!

Ha ha - that made me laugh but to be fair their track record for producing players is quite poor, I can only think of Ameobi, Taylor and Carroll in the last 10 years or so that have gone on to make significant impact in their first team.

 

[Sky Blues]

Yes, we may sell youngsters to make money (as I noted with Bigi) but I was also suggesting that if we don't sell the whole graduating class after only one year in the firsts our team will have a steady trickle of new talent coming through.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. When I say Sisu sell a player, I mean they sanction it or order it etc.
We need players, this strategy achieves that.
We also need money and I was suggesting maybe the strategy is selling some youngsters and hopefully rehabilitated prospects is a way of getting it.
What Sisu do with the money once it is at the club is another debate!

 

[TheBoss]

Does this category 2 status enable us to command a bigger fee for any academy product we may sell?

 

[Sky Blues]

With Cat 2 you can get more compensation (£25k instead of £12.5k per year registered in Cat 3) if they're nabbed early by a big club, but the thing that will lead to bigger transfer fees when they've turned pro is simply that they're more likely to be better players. Cat 2 clubs can take kids from age 4 and sign them age 9. Cat 3 clubs can't coach them until they are 11. Unlike Cat 3 clubs, Cat 2 clubs can ignore the 90 minute rule, so can take kids from anywhere, not just the immediate locality. As I understand it, Cat 2 clubs are also more likely to have better facilities (indoor training etc), more coaches (though probably not the 18 full time staff that Cat 1 clubs need) and will play against higher quality opposition. These factor mean the end product from a Cat 2 club should, on average, be better than the end product from a Cat 3 club.

 

[TheBoss]

Right, so sign them pro early?

 

[Sky Blues]

You got me there. I used turning-pro as a definition because I have struggled to find a definitive guide to when the poaching with compensation can stop and proper transfers can begin. I imagined you can't have a proper transfer until you are on pro forms, but it may also be 16 is the cut off as that is when the Cat 4 clubs can pick up those players released from the other academies or centres of excellence.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The cut off is age related, and off the top of my head it's 16/17.

 

[dongonzalos]

my understanding is that this a new categorisation for coming season CCFC

benefits are that if you invest more you attract better players and compete in matches against similar level or better so keeping development standards up. the better the standard of academy the better long term prospects for developing our own players to a good standard

I think because of the investment you put into the players, it ensure you get a higher compensation fee when the bigger clubs come and nick your players.
In a way by investing 500k if 2 of the youngsters get nicked SISU will have their money back and some. So it is a way of securing your investment. Wise move by them financially. For them it was not necessarily all about developing our kids. However I agree definately the way forward financially for us. It will lead to better development of the players bt we will lose quite a few.

 

[oldskyblue58]

they didnt invest an extra £500k though did they ...... they didnt "invest" all the bigi fee in the academy ..... they were already spending the majority of it on the academy..... as TF said the fee was invested across the whole of football business.

This wasnt an investment as such it was setting a budget and chopping costs accordingly to fit ..... and shifting funds around the budget. My guess is with allocating costs differently, shifting funds round the budget, shifting staff designations and times they actually allocated less than £100k extra to the academy.

But of course what spin you put on it is another matter.............

 

[Godiva]

they didnt invest an extra £500k though did they ...... they didnt "invest" all the bigi fee in the academy ..... they were already spending the majority of it on the academy..... as TF said the fee was invested across the whole of football business.

This wasnt an investment as such it was setting a budget and chopping costs accordingly to fit ..... and shifting funds around the budget. My guess is with allocating costs differently, shifting funds round the budget, shifting staff designations and times they actually allocated less than £100k extra to the academy.

But of course what spin you put on it is another matter.............

You could argue that with the financial situation the club finds itself, they could have left the acadamy budget where it was. It's not like the acadamy hasn't produced decent youngsters over the past few years - is it? So it was doing ok with the funding it had.
Putting more money into the acadamy is a major strategic move - they want to attract more/better youngsters. It's what Ranson set out to do when he came and a strategy most fans support.

Investing in the acadamy is a long term investment. It shows that the board have a vision and that the owners are supporting that vision.

 

[skyblueman]

You could argue that with the financial situation the club finds itself, they could have left the acadamy budget where it was. It's not like the acadamy hasn't produced decent youngsters over the past few years - is it? So it was doing ok with the funding it had.
Putting more money into the acadamy is a major strategic move - they want to attract more/better youngsters. It's what Ranson set out to do when he came and a strategy most fans support.

Investing in the acadamy is a long term investment. It shows that the board have a vision and that the owners are supporting that vision.

and it obviously won't harm SISU's argument to gain control of the ground...

 

[Sky Blues]

You could argue that with the financial situation the club finds itself, they could have left the acadamy budget where it was. It's not like the acadamy hasn't produced decent youngsters over the past few years - is it? So it was doing ok with the funding it had.
Putting more money into the acadamy is a major strategic move - they want to attract more/better youngsters. It's what Ranson set out to do when he came and a strategy most fans support.

Investing in the acadamy is a long term investment. It shows that the board have a vision and that the owners are supporting that vision.

They probably did have to make a decision about the academy this summer because of the new rules coming into force governing academies and centres of excellence. Let's say, for the sake of argument, the old Cov academy cost £400,000 to run last year. That level of investment would, under the new rules, get you Cat 3 status this year. You could even scale back your expenditure a bit next year and keep Cat 3 status. Or, as OSB suggests, you rearrange the finances, find an extra £100,000 and you can get yourself a Cat 2 academy.

They may or may not have had to find a lot of money, but the important thing is they opted to go for Cat 2 and all that entails.