Southport Stabbing (4 Viewers)

Nick · Aug 1, 2024

Otis said:
Yeah, I get that.

It was just the insinuation that even though someone could be born here and consider themselves to be English , some would have it that they are NOT English.

Anyway, not going to mention it again, but it's absolutely batshit crazy.

I agree, it's impossible for us to say and can go round all day giving examples.

You could have 2 families from the same country have kids here and both sets of kids having completely different views on things and how they see themselves.

Just shouting "He's welsh" or "He's from Rwanda" doesn't really prove much, more will come out over time about him and why he did it, his views, his family etc.

Does immigration need to be looked into for things like this? Of course, if it turns out like the Manchester Bomber and he had ideology or views that were from Rwanda / his upbringing and that played a part.

Does it mean nobody should be allowed into the country ever again? Of course not.

Does it mean everybody born in the UK to parents from a different country is going to be a suicide bomber or mass murder? Again, of course fucking not.

Does it mean everybody born in the UK to parents from a different country is British? Fuck knows, it's entirely up to them. They might not want to be seen as British and might be very proud of their heritage and might want to be seen as that nationality. They might want to go for a pint on a Friday, drink stella and get a curry. All that British stuff. it's impossible to say and we can't decide that either way.

It's about balance.

Otis · Aug 1, 2024

Grendel said:
I just want him executed

Yeah, I clocked that.

Could well be that's what he wants so he can go to paradise.

Much rather he rot away in a cell.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Aug 1, 2024

Otis said:
Yeah, I get that.

It was just the insinuation that even though someone could be born here and consider themselves to be English , some would have it that they are NOT English.

Anyway, not going to mention it again, but it's absolutely batshit crazy.

...and then there's the definition of what being " English" is.
Bacon sandwiches.

Otis · Aug 1, 2024

Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
...and then there's the definition of what being " English" is.
Bacon sandwiches.

Veggie bacon sandwiches

PVA · Aug 1, 2024

Grendel said:
No it’s irrelevant and a diversion - oh and look more unfounded hyperbole

Where is the unfounded hyperbole in that post?

torchomatic · Aug 1, 2024

Nick said:
I mean you could have said "gangs roaming around the country setting things alight and not expect there to be consequences", surely?

Unless of course you only want it to be used when it's particular people kicking off and not everybody?

Use it on everybody and anybody kicking off and rioting, not just angry white cunts, used it against angry cunts in general.

Looking back at what I said as I'm at home now and not on the bus, "right wingers and hate groups". If I'd just said "hate groups" would you still have had mentioned it? Was the use of "right wingers" upsetting to you?

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Aug 1, 2024

Nick said:
I agree, it's impossible for us to say and can go round all day giving examples.

You could have 2 families from the same country have kids here and both sets of kids having completely different views on things and how they see themselves.

Just shouting "He's welsh" or "He's from Rwanda" doesn't really prove much, more will come out over time about him and why he did it, his views, his family etc.

Does immigration need to be looked into for things like this? Of course, if it turns out like the Manchester Bomber and he had ideology or views that were from Rwanda / his upbringing and that played a part.

Does it mean nobody should be allowed into the country ever again? Of course not.

Does it mean everybody born in the UK to parents from a different country is going to be a suicide bomber or mass murder? Again, of course fucking not.

It's about balance.

Quite right but it only takes one mass atrocity by one unhinged individual in the name of his god and a whole group of people will be demonised for the next 10 years. It's in many ways inevitable .

Nick · Aug 1, 2024

torchomatic said:
Looking back at what I said as I'm at home now and not on the bus, "right wingers and hate groups". If I'd just said "hate groups" would you still have had mentioned it? Was the use of "right wingers" upsetting to you?

It didn't upset me, I just pointed out and asked why it was only specific groups something should happen against if they kick off and not others when they kick off.

You doubled down on it.

David O'Day · Aug 1, 2024

Same old shite throughout history.

Deleted member 9744 · Aug 1, 2024

Deleted member 5849 said:
Kasey Palmer isn't English is the extension... but we can go holier than thou on Sheffield Wednesday fans.

Yes. It's would be interesting to know from those who feel racist posts should not be banned here whether they feel the antics of the Sheffield Wednesday fan should have been tolerated.

I heard enough racist comments at the CBS aimed at Wright and Sakamoto to know that our fans contain an element of racists too. To be honest I am disappointed how few people have objected to the offending posts on here considering how many clearly have looked at the thread.

torchomatic · Aug 1, 2024

Nick said:
It didn't upset me, I just pointed out and asked why it was only specific groups something should happen against if they kick off and not others when they kick off.

You doubled down on it.

Well, it must have. 'Hate groups' could encompass the whole spectrum of hate from far left to far right. You focused on 'right wingers'.

Alan Dugdales Moustache · Aug 1, 2024

SeaSeeEffCee said:
I don’t really give a shit where the bloke is from, or what nationality he identifies as, either way he’s a murdering piece of scum. We don’t even know the alleged motivation for the attack so discussion over his ethnicity is largely pointless.

I do however give a shit that you’ve got posters on here essentially say that people of certain ethnic backgrounds cannot be classified as British based purely on where their parents are from. There are plenty of children of immigrants on here and even more up at the CBS every other Saturday. What sort of message does it send to them when shit like that is getting said on here? Who are we to tell people who they are and how they’re allowed to identify themselves? What sort of representation of us as a club and a community does it send out? It’s utterly archaic thinking and should be widely condemned.

If he was born here , as he appears to be, I'd assume he'd identify as British . If not then it might play a part in his mental state. An outcast. Isolation
Then again it might not.

Grendel · Aug 1, 2024

Otis said:
Yeah, I clocked that.

Could well be that's what he wants so he can go to paradise.

Much rather he rot away in a cell.

Until he is released

shmmeee · Aug 1, 2024

SkyblueCookie said:
His logic is you can pay a company a few hundred quid to analyse your spit and through DNA analysis they can pin point which ethnicity/race/area of the world you come from. If the gentlemen who murdered children did said test, it wouldn't say he comes from Wales, despite what his passport says.

Torch will now use these posts to spear Gynn as a racist for saying Axel isn't actually Welsh ethnically (and probably me for having basic awareness of race in the world).

If you pay one of those companies they will tell you what percentage of genes you shared with other people who have paid one of those companies. It’s a meaningless parlour trick not a basis for geopolitics.

Deleted member 9744 · Aug 1, 2024

Otis said:
It's insulting and Hill has clearly been insulted.

I see Hill as English through and through.

If we are talking about DNA tests to see what people's heritage is and deny them the notion of being English, despite being born here, well.....

This is the first time I have showed a post to my missus and her jaw dropped to the floor. Completely shocked.

Scary.

It's disgusting that people are forced to stop posting because of vile racist posts. We have lost posters in the past too.

Nick · Aug 1, 2024

torchomatic said:
Well, it must have. 'Hate groups' could encompass the whole spectrum of hate from far left to far right. You focused on right wingers.

I asked you to confirm you meant what I thought, you did.

Like I said, it's obvious that some things are OK if against people you don't agree with politically but then others it's not on.

Deleted member 9744 · Aug 1, 2024

SeaSeeEffCee said:
I don’t really give a shit where the bloke is from, or what nationality he identifies as, either way he’s a murdering piece of scum. We don’t even know the alleged motivation for the attack so discussion over his ethnicity is largely pointless.

I do however give a shit that you’ve got posters on here essentially say that people of certain ethnic backgrounds cannot be classified as British based purely on where their parents are from. There are plenty of children of immigrants on here and even more up at the CBS every other Saturday. What sort of message does it send to them when shit like that is getting said on here? Who are we to tell people who they are and how they’re allowed to identify themselves? What sort of representation of us as a club and a community does it send out? It’s utterly archaic thinking and should be widely condemned.

Perfectly put.

All I would add is that it should not be tolerated on here and the posters should be banned.

torchomatic · Aug 1, 2024

Nick said:
I asked you to confirm you meant what I thought, you did.

Like I said, it's obvious that some things are OK if against people you don't agree with politically but then others it's not on.

Ditto, Nick. Your blatant lack of moderation highlights that.

Deleted member 162 · Aug 1, 2024

shmmeee said:
If you pay one of those companies they will tell you what percentage of genes you shared with other people who have paid one of those companies. It’s a meaningless parlour trick not a basis for geopolitics.

Id like to be very clear here. I can explain a thought process without it being my own. I feel like I'm being bucketed into something im not part of.

We are in a nation that is now suffering riots with racial under and over tones. This is a massive problem and everyone should be doing their level best to understand why so that it can be addressed.

The ethno elements are disgusting, but absolutely prevalent.

These people aren't going to go away, so when someone says "Welsh lol" know EXACTLY what they mean. If you don't youre not an ally, you're someone with their head in the sand. Ethnic differences are a biological fact, but its about owning it not crying when its recognised. Wtaf do you think strength in diversity means?

Some of you just are not equipped for this conversation and would rather morally grandstand than look into the abyss and try and do something about it. Pathetic.

Otis · Aug 1, 2024

Deleted member 9744 said:
It's disgusting that people are forced to stop posting because of vile racist posts. We have lost posters in the past too.

Yup

I have had people message me saying they are on the verge of quitting SBT.

Grendel · Aug 1, 2024

Deleted member 9744 said:
Perfectly put.

All I would add is that it should not be tolerated on here and the posters should be banned.

Apply to be a moderator then

Grendel · Aug 1, 2024

Otis said:
Yup

I have had people message me saying they are on the verge of quitting SBT.

Please tell me Tony is one of them

shmmeee · Aug 1, 2024

SkyblueCookie said:
Id like to be very clear here. I can explain a thought process without it being my own. I feel like I'm being bucketed into something im not part of.

We are in a nation that is now suffering riots with racial under and over tones. This is a massive problem and everyone should be doing their level best to understand why so that it can be addressed.

The ethno elements are disgusting, but absolutely prevalent.

These people aren't going to go away, so when someone says "Welsh lol" know EXACTLY what they mean. If you don't youre not an ally, you're someone with their head in the sand. Ethnic differences are a biological fact, but its about owning it not crying when its recognised. Wtaf do you think strength in diversity means?

Some of you just are not equipped for this conversation and would rather morally grandstand than look into the abyss and try and do something about it. Pathetic.

“The abyss” have a word with yourself.

Why don’t you come out and say what you mean?

Nick · Aug 1, 2024

Otis said:
Yup

I have had people message me saying they are on the verge of quitting SBT.

Oh yeah you will. It just means you get to be in the gang I refer to as 99% of the time it's just people trying to wind things up and get others to say things.

I used to get it all the time when people didn't really have the bollocks to say stuff, reminded me of the kids at school who would shit stir in the background to get somebody else to do their dirty work.

Much prefer the people who just say it as it is, regardless of their views.

wingy · Aug 1, 2024

Nick said:
Good job Sterling was dropped. Let's not mention the iconic English picture of Terry Butcher. Somebody had better tell Haaland he isn't Norwegian too. How about the proud scotsman Scott McTominay.

Again, surely there is so much more to things than which hospital somebody was born in? Could sit here all day reeling of examples of somebody born in the UK with a different heritage who is very much British, Brits born outside the UK who are very much British or people who were born in the UK who in no way see themselves as British.

Somebody could be of one heritage and born in a different country and be completely different to another with the same circumstances through loads of factors.

It's really impossible to say at the minute about this one example, I am sure more will come out but it's just speculation from either side isn't it?

It will,and it may down to politics here and the influence on him of his parents emigration here and the historical reason for that,twisted as it may be?

Deleted member 162 · Aug 1, 2024

shmmeee said:
“The abyss” have a word with yourself.

Why don’t you come out and say what you mean?

I mean i think there are a lot of people in this thread that espouse platitudes and are doing absolutely nothing to combat the upstream issues that are causing the problems discussed in this thread.

I think the vast majority of you are very comfortable and live in bubbles. Completely ignorant to what is happening. I foolishly have tried to outline how mental the situation is getting to drive home where we're actually at and I've been conflated with it. Im stunned.

PVA · Aug 1, 2024

Nick said:
Again, we don't really know much about him yet. It's pretty much impossible to say whether his background had anything to do with it, either way.

Well that's exactly the point.

Nobody knows his background even now, nevermind 5 minutes after the attack yet it didn't stop people piling in with a load of shit about Muslims.

Grendel · Aug 1, 2024

PVA said:
Well that's exactly the point.

Nobody knows his background even now, nevermind 5 minutes after the attack yet it didn't stop people piling in with a load of shit about Muslims.

Many left leaning people post “shit” about Muslims all the time on here

Sky Blue Pete · Aug 1, 2024

Grendel said:
It really is irrelevant if this “person” is Welsh English or Rwandan - it’s an irrelevant discussion

To us yes

PVA · Aug 1, 2024

Grendel said:
Many left leaning people post “shit” about Muslims all the time on here

And it's wrong whoever posts it. What's your point?

Grendel · Aug 1, 2024

PVA said:
And it's wrong whoever posts it. What's your point?

Well my point is you are labelling those on this thread as far right but the left on this forum despise Islamic ideology normally don’t they?

Terry_dactyl · Aug 1, 2024

Gynnsthetonic said:
Welsh lol, I'm sure the people of Wales are fuming he's being described as Welsh and tarnishing their reputation

As a resident of wales I am fuming. I’m fuming that the awful killing of those children is being overshadowed unnecessarily by the killers religion/nationality/race.
People that have done this should be ashamed of themselves.

PVA · Aug 1, 2024

Grendel said:
Well my point is you are labelling those on this thread as far right but the left on this forum despise Islamic ideology normally don’t they?

I've never seen anything as bad on here as what's been said on this thread, and it's all coming from those on the right.

fernandopartridge · Aug 1, 2024

Has the thread title changed? The incident happened in Southport not Stockport

Grendel · Aug 1, 2024

PVA said:
I've never seen anything as bad on here as what's been said on this thread, and it's all coming from those on the right.

Wasabi Muslims? What have the left said about those? Evil scum I seem to recall.

Southport Stabbing (4 Viewers)

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