Indefinitely. Gap will be bridged by selling talent. They did it in the top flight for as long as I can remember and it's arguably easier to find young talent to play and sell for profit at our level. Not great and will invariably be disappointing, but buying youth to then improve and sell on has been the model.Fair questions, bond will just be paid through refinancing, results will improve as there is a good crop of youngsters coming through but this squad will improve as the season goes on, as I said could be anywhere from 5th to 9th, attendances will fluctuate inline with results. its also cheaper to prop up a rugby club than a football club, quite a bit of that question could also asked off CCFC, low attendances, higher rent against lower income, good results to be fair but how long can they sustain this?
Bonds taking another hammering today. Down almost 4% at the moment.
Yeah, I saw that, 28% drop in the last 6 months. Yes it doesn't affect Wasps day to day but not a mention in the CT.
Does anybody actually know what the financial difference is between last seasons income and projected income for this seasonIndefinitely. Gap will be bridged by selling talent. They did it in the top flight for as long as I can remember and it's arguably easier to find young talent to play and sell for profit at our level. Not great and will invariably be disappointing, but buying youth to then improve and sell on has been the model.
Does anybody actually know what the financial difference is between last seasons income and projected income for this season
Avg attendance is approx. 6k down, avg price taking account of concessions, season tickets, kids etc I assume approx. £13 x23 games = £1.8m. Less costs overall than Ricoh (was cheap rent but smaller slice F&B etc) probably tops out at £2m shortfall - or if undisclosed is led to be right - Tom Bayliss this season Sam McCallum next season.Does anybody actually know what the financial difference is between last seasons income and projected income for this season
Obviously won't equate for all of that plus it won't be including the Wembley/FA Cup trips of two seasons ago, but I would have thought the success of all three kits has helped bridge *some* of that gap. Will probably be a fraction but undoubtedly shirt sales figures will be massively up.Avg attendance is approx. 6k down, avg price taking account of concessions, season tickets, kids etc I assume approx. £13 x23 games = £1.8m. Less costs overall than Ricoh (was cheap rent but smaller slice F&B etc) probably tops out at £2m shortfall - or if undisclosed is led to be right - Tom Bayliss this season Sam McCallum next season.
Question from the uneducated (me). Am I right in thinking that the reason it doesn't affect the day to day, is that Franchised RFC have to pay back £32m (or whatever the bond sale achieved) regardless of how they do on the pitch or regardless of how the bonds perform?
I've never bought/dealt/needed to know about bonds so genuinely have no clue about them.
Absolutely. And it's difficult to argue the manager hasn't been backed either, but I think they're working on a breakeven position for all footballing and non-football revenue/expenses. Therefore whatever we generate we use, but equally any loss made up by player sales. Whilst we have a production line we can sustain it, but with another £2m, we might have been shopping for different targets. I'm only guessing of course, but that's how I see it.Obviously won't equate for all of that plus it won't be including the Wembley/FA Cup trips of two seasons ago, but I would have thought the success of all three kits has helped bridge *some* of that gap. Will probably be a fraction but undoubtedly shirt sales figures will be massively up.
Every 6 months they have to pay 6.5% interest and will then have to pay back the initial sum, which is secured on the ground. You can see some of the more recent trades here:
https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/w/wasps-finance-6.5-2022
Fair bit of selling today. 75,000 of them.
So as long as you make one decent sale a season your all good? are player sales included in FFP or will that effect what can be spent next season?Avg attendance is approx. 6k down, avg price taking account of concessions, season tickets, kids etc I assume approx. £13 x23 games = £1.8m. Less costs overall than Ricoh (was cheap rent but smaller slice F&B etc) probably tops out at £2m shortfall - or if undisclosed is led to be right - Tom Bayliss this season Sam McCallum next season.
We’ve been doing it for years mate personally I think wasps will break before us,heard a rumour wasps had vodaphone lined up for the naming rights but pulled out as ccfc wasn’t there not sure on how true that is,if the EU commission rules you got the ground cheap I think that will be close to finishing wasps as far as being in Coventry goesSo as long as you make one decent sale a season your all good? are player sales included in FFP or will that effect what can be spent next season?
So basically wasps will try sue cov council...if the EU rules against the council and Wasps have to pay up 30 million or whatever the figure is that will bankrupt them no doubt, not sure how it works but i'm pretty sure the legals will then move to Wasps trying to claim that money off somebody as they will claim they paid the asking price which they were not responsible for setting. apart from that i don't think there is much of a chance of wasps going bust.
You say the squad will improve but will the results? You can’t keep losing your best players and live in hope that things will improve. Your heading for relegation and an attitude such as the one displayed could be called arrogance.Fair questions, bond will just be paid through refinancing, results will improve as there is a good crop of youngsters coming through but this squad will improve as the season goes on, as I said could be anywhere from 5th to 9th, attendances will fluctuate inline with results. its also cheaper to prop up a rugby club than a football club, quite a bit of that question could also asked off CCFC, low attendances, higher rent against lower income, good results to be fair but how long can they sustain this?
if the EU rules against the council and Wasps have to pay up 30 million or whatever the figure is that will bankrupt them no doubt, not sure how it works but i'm pretty sure the legals will then move to Wasps trying to claim that money off somebody as they will claim they paid the asking price which they were not responsible for setting. apart from that i don't think there is much of a chance of wasps going bust.
The project has failed whatever way you spin it and I see no possibility of any recovery
The balance sheet will be more positive due to the sponsorship money but it’s more short termism and requires a re-payment.
The club is losing money and being at the Ricoh is giving no commercial benefit. The club would have been better at Wycombe. It’s looking very embarrassing - it will not go out of business but it’s a commercial basket case and there’s no hope in hell you will stay here as you can’t afford it
What hasn't come to light is how much they got in selling off the land at Whitley that they purchased from Severn Trent which backed onto the Higgs centre. I believe that's now in a developers hands.
Is the Ricoh itself doomed to failure?
Until it pays down the latest iteration of its mortgage yes. It went from a steady fixed rate loan to a high interest only deal. How on earth did the council allow that to happen?Is the Ricoh itself doomed to failure?
no because they have the midlands fly fishing convention and mystic meg supporters club always booked
Don't forget Netball Super League
yep forgot that , apparently if it’s successful they will expand it to the U14’s
Not if we promote and can pack it with 18k fans every other week.Is the Ricoh itself doomed to failure?
Not if we promote and can pack it with 18k fans every other week.
Like it is, only a matter of time.
Packing it=just over half full?
The bonds will go up and down depending on how healthy Wasps look and what the chances are of getting it paid off at the end. It was paying a high dividend. But the stake is at risk. Yes the full amount will be due at the end. But if it looks like it could fail the price will drop. And they don't look that healthy.I don't get why the bonds keep dropping. Aren't you supposed to be guaranteed the promised interest and your original investment back at the end? Why would people sell so low unless they think there's a serious risk of Wasps going bust?
I get that but for it to fall so low surely there must be serious doubts about Wasps ability to pay back the bonds and the security (the Ricoh) to cover the debt. Its got to be more than they've lost a couple of games or showed losses in the accounts.The bonds will go up and down depending on how healthy Wasps look and what the chances are of getting it paid off at the end. It was paying a high dividend. But the stake is at risk. Yes the full amount will be due at the end. But if it looks like it could fail the price will drop. And they don't look that healthy.
Yup, surely people would otherwise be piling in to make nearly a 50% profit in less than 3 years (is that right? 30% on the difference between purchase price and settlement price and 3 x 6.5% interest?).I get that but for it to fall so low surely there must be serious doubts about Wasps ability to pay back the bonds and the security (the Ricoh) to cover the debt. Its got to be more than they've lost a couple of games or showed losses in the accounts.
We keep being told that, despite what we see in the accounts, their finances are OK. If that's the case why would anyone give up 30% of their initial investment unless they are seriously concerned that Wasps won't be able to pay it back.
An average attendance of 18k would mean some packed weeks. Some games we might get 14k Barnsley on a Tuesday night as an example but Birmingham at home, West Brom etc I could see 25k +
18k was a guess in truth hope we could get more. Aside from this if we did still open 3 stands only 18k would feel like be a packed/condensed crowd.
In truth my point was wider about the Ricoh not being viable. In my view it is and the issues it has are the owners and the lack of a successful football team located there.
Like I said the main reason is worry that the original investment isn't returned at the end of the term.I get that but for it to fall so low surely there must be serious doubts about Wasps ability to pay back the bonds and the security (the Ricoh) to cover the debt. Its got to be more than they've lost a couple of games or showed losses in the accounts.
We keep being told that, despite what we see in the accounts, their finances are OK. If that's the case why would anyone give up 30% of their initial investment unless they are seriously concerned that Wasps won't be able to pay it back.
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