So , what are our owners going to do now ............... (1 Viewer)

oldskyblue58 · May 5, 2016

So just a few headlines from the LCFC accounts as to how they did it and how it could be related to CCFC

- Turnover 2014 31m in Championship 2015 it was 104m. Key here for CCFC is what our turnover would be in the Championship - it wont be anywhere close to 31m imo. LCFC match receipts were £10m in 2015 - that's a major income source for CCFC and was 1.7m in the same year

- 2014 they made a loss 21m getting promoted to Premiership 2015 they made a profit 26m in the Premiership...... what that will be this season who knows but I would think it will be a healthy profit. get promotion to the Premiership then could be the same for CCFC? Oh and that's 26m after the LCFC owners take out 5m in interest and management charges

- 2014 LCFC wage bill was £36m 2015 it was £57m. In 2014 our wage bill all employees was 5.4m and decreased in 2015 to 5.2m

- LCFC average crowds 31693 2015 and 25003 in 2014 when was the last time CCFC were ever close to that

- The stadium bought back for 17m I believe currently is carried at a value of £40m - seems security of tenure does have an effect on valuation

- LCFC have net assets of £47m in 2015 up from 16m in 2014. CCFC has net liabilities of 30m as a group

- LCFC is cash flow positive 5.7m 2015 and 7m positive in 2014. CCFC cash flow negative 128k 2015 and 92k negative 2014 - ie we spend more cash than we get in.

- LCFC owe the owners 9m in loans, in L1 the group loans SBS&L have outstanding to its owners are 36m

There is more but the gist of it is I am not embarrassed by the LCFC success because physically, on or off the pitch, financially, owner funding or what ever way you choose to look at it we are not in the same league. There is no shame for CCFC fans in what LCFC have done only a large dollop of envy, unless of course you have an unrealistic view of what CCFC has become and is

oldskyblue58 · May 5, 2016

Ashdown said:
And on that basis , lets all have a party ! FFS , how depressing !

but at least it is realistic

without blaming the fans at all for the crap we have endured....... it is the unrealistic expectations often spouted on sites like this that help generate the bipolar responses of CCFC addicts. In saying that there is nothing in people expressing themselves like that but I just prefer a more realistic passion for our club ...... cuts out some of the sharper heartache of disappointment

Nick · May 5, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
What came first? the chicken or the egg?.... Do you offer a "Mini," and expect to get "Rolls Royce" money? Do you offer "Braised beef" and want "Sirloin Steak" money? Do you offer "Cubic Zirconium" and expect "Diamond" money? Wether you're a Car trader, Butcher, or a jeweller. You have a product first, then sell it... you don't ask for money before you have a product to sell!

The product is in your avatar.

Our tickets were among the cheapest in the league last season weren't they? So your mini for rolls royce theory doesn't really work.

fernandopartridge · May 5, 2016

Nick said:
The product is in your avatar.

Our tickets were among the cheapest in the league last season weren't they? So your mini for rolls royce theory doesn't really work.

He's just making excuses for himself.

He seems to believe the ideal scenario is for the club to grow their debt pile in the hope that it makes people like him attend matches.

Nick · May 5, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
but at least it is realistic

without blaming the fans at all for the crap we have endured....... it is the unrealistic expectations often spouted on sites like this that help generate the bipolar responses of CCFC addicts. In saying that there is nothing in people expressing themselves like that but I just prefer a more realistic passion for our club ...... cuts out some of the sharper heartache of disappointment

I think that is what people miss.

They expect millions to be pumped in, meanwhile they refuse to go to games.

sbadey · May 5, 2016

Brylowes said:
Yep, and SISU are no mugs.

Briliant reply

Sent from my Versus TouchPad 9 using Tapatalk

dongonzalos · May 5, 2016

stupot07 said:
I don't think all of that can be attributed to sisu. Northampton, court cases and stadium I agree with.

The only way we have moved forwards is thag we have addressed the unaffordable and we're now self sufficient, and the academy continues to flourish.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I think their investment in the academy has been excellent
It is genuinely quite exciting

Evo1883 · May 5, 2016

They are going to increase season ticket prices .
That's it

Sky Blue Kid · May 5, 2016

Nick said:
The product is in your avatar.

Our tickets were among the cheapest in the league last season weren't they? So your mini for rolls royce theory doesn't really work.

Rubbish Nick! Do you make money from this site? Yes/No If yes, do you give good quality in advertising other products on here, if No,do you try to improve the site so as to make more money from it. Lets face it, you don't do this just for the love of it and nothing else. I mean, look at the bottom of your reply to my last post! Paul Smith Aftershave, JVC 32" tv, Acer Nettop. Don't tell me you give these advertisers FREE space! You provide a outlet for their adverts. You need to provide a good service to expect good money to come in by return. The similarity is there for all to see. You speculate to accumulate If you provide a poor product you can't expect to get top returns.

fernandopartridge · May 5, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Rubbish Nick! Do you make money from this site? Yes/No If yes, do you give good quality in advertising other products on here, if No,do you try to improve the site so as to make more money from it. Lets face it, you don't do this just for the love of it and nothing else. I mean, look at the bottom of your reply to my last post! Paul Smith Aftershave, JVC 32" tv, Acer Nettop. Don't tell me you give these advertisers FREE space! You provide a outlet for their adverts. You need to provide a good service to expect good money to come in by return. The similarity is there for all to see. You speculate to accumulate If you provide a poor product you can't expect to get top returns.

What waffle.

Nick · May 5, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Rubbish Nick! Do you make money from this site? Yes/No If yes, do you give good quality in advertising other products on here, if No,do you try to improve the site so as to make more money from it. Lets face it, you don't do this just for the love of it and nothing else. I mean, look at the bottom of your reply to my last post! Paul Smith Aftershave, JVC 32" tv, Acer Nettop. Don't tell me you give these advertisers FREE space! You provide a outlet for their adverts. You need to provide a good service to expect good money to come in by return. The similarity is there for all to see. You speculate to accumulate If you provide a poor product you can't expect to get top returns.

That other site is owned by me. So it is free space yes!

The adverts go towards server costs and costs for things like the Prediction League where I had to pay for them to add league 1 when we went down, prediction league prizes

If the links can help generate traffic to another site then it is a bonus, but in all honesty it doesn't. I have also sent out the odd cheeky PM to try and ask members to use my other site.

but still, it doesn't have anything to do with your paying for a rolls royce but getting a mini comparison?

Sky Blue Kid · May 5, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
He's just making excuses for himself.

He seems to believe the ideal scenario is for the club to grow their debt pile in the hope that it makes people like him attend matches.

Is that the best reply you can come up with? Did you read a post I made earlier about RR saying on takeover of the Club that we are one of only 3-4 Clubs that are "Debt Free". They had the opportunity to put this Football Club back on the map with "£20m made ready to take this club forward" Where is it? We bought 2 players Dann and Fox, within 7-8 months had sold them, along with re-Mortgaging the Ryton training ground, and SISU claiming to be multi-millions of pounds in debt. That £20m is rather like the Opec claiming 1m barrels of oil have gone missing, hence the steady rise in fuel over the last couple of weeks. Total bollox is what I'm saying.

Sky Blue Kid · May 5, 2016

Nick said:
That other site is owned by me. So it is free space yes!

The adverts go towards server costs and costs for things like the Prediction League where I had to pay for them to add league 1 when we went down, prediction league prizes

If the links can help generate traffic to another site then it is a bonus, but in all honesty it doesn't. I have also sent out the odd cheeky PM to try and ask members to use my other site.

but still, it doesn't have anything to do with your paying for a rolls royce but getting a mini comparison?

And why would that be then? You are trying to make money from "Sending the odd cheeky PM" I have had one, along with "Block Cheeky PM's to an Estimated(Grenduffy) 5k posters that are registered on this forum.... Hardly a "Cheeky PM" is it!

Nick · May 5, 2016

It would be to promote another site I own. What's the problem with that?

It was a PM when the site launched, I have links in my signature.

Posters are welcome to links in their signature, not just me.

If a contributing member launches a business, I'd be happy to do the same to help them out and have done.

I am not too sure what point you are trying to get at or make?

Ashdown · May 5, 2016

fernandopartridge said:
Yes, the depressing thought is that it's really down to the fans to attend matches to fund the return to the championship. As we know with City, that just won't happen. The fans have got a myriad excuses for not going so the vicious cycle will continue. OSB's comment about the club finding its level is spot on, with gates of around 12k it has found its level.

Despite my cynicism and hatred of the owners I've done my bit again this season pal, done 18 matches and bought tickets for the Mrs for another 4 { most at £20 a pop }, bought a couple of bits from the shop too. I won't commit to a season ticket whilst these sharks are still in town though, plus I like the flexibility of doing what I want, when I want !

Covstu · May 5, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
And why would that be then? You are trying to make money from "Sending the odd cheeky PM" I have had one, along with "Block Cheeky PM's to an Estimated(Grenduffy) 5k posters that are registered on this forum.... Hardly a "Cheeky PM" is it!

Who cares!? I don't care if he makes thousands out of this site, it would be different if we were being bombarded by spam but we aren't. Stop being so uptight fella.

Nick · May 5, 2016

Covstu said:
Who cares!? I don't care if he makes thousands out of this site, it would be different if we were being bombarded by spam but we aren't. Stop being so uptight fella.

I wish!

I do also try to keep adverts / spam to a bare minimum. There are quite a few ads, until you sign up (which is the aim) so it gives 1 reason to signup at least!

Compare it to other forums where you get hammered and can't move for ads.

Covstu · May 5, 2016

Nick said:
I wish!

I do also try to keep adverts / spam to a bare minimum. There are quite a few ads, until you sign up (which is the aim) so it gives 1 reason to signup at least!

Compare it to other forums where you get hammered and can't move for ads.

no complaints from me, I used your signature links a few times myself!

Sky Blue Kid · May 5, 2016

Nick said:
It would be to promote another site I own. What's the problem with that?

It was a PM when the site launched, I have links in my signature.

Posters are welcome to links in their signature, not just me.

If a contributing member launches a business, I'd be happy to do the same to help them out and have done.

I am not too sure what point you are trying to get at or make?

I would have thought the point was obvious without you saying The comodity is my Avatar Nick. When you are running a business, you need a comodity to sell, at the same time you make it as good as possible(Speculate, invest) Within 8-9 months of acquiring the club SISU claimed the exact opposite to their first claim by RR. We went from "Debt Free" with £20m made ready to take the club forward to being multi-millions in debt.

Nick · May 5, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
I would have thought the point was obvious without you saying The comodity is my Avatar Nick. When you are running a business, you need a comodity to sell, at the same time you make it as good as possible(Speculate, invest) Within 8-9 months of acquiring the club SISU claimed the exact opposite to their first claim by RR. We went from "Debt Free" with £20m made ready to take the club forward to being multi-millions in debt.

So what has that got to do with paying for a rolls royce but getting a mini?

I said we are paying for what is in your avatar, which is Coventry City FC. Hence people didn't suddenly just get Leicester season tickets when they got promoted.

You are moaning about no investment, but you quite proudly say you don't put any money into the club.

dongonzalos · May 5, 2016

oldskyblue58 said:
So just a few headlines from the LCFC accounts as to how they did it and how it could be related to CCFC

- Turnover 2014 31m in Championship 2015 it was 104m. Key here for CCFC is what our turnover would be in the Championship - it wont be anywhere close to 31m imo. LCFC match receipts were £10m in 2015 - that's a major income source for CCFC and was 1.7m in the same year

- 2014 they made a loss 21m getting promoted to Premiership 2015 they made a profit 26m in the Premiership...... what that will be this season who knows but I would think it will be a healthy profit. get promotion to the Premiership then could be the same for CCFC? Oh and that's 26m after the LCFC owners take out 5m in interest and management charges

- 2014 LCFC wage bill was £36m 2015 it was £57m. In 2014 our wage bill all employees was 5.4m and decreased in 2015 to 5.2m

- LCFC average crowds 31693 2015 and 25003 in 2014 when was the last time CCFC were ever close to that

- The stadium bought back for 17m I believe currently is carried at a value of £40m - seems security of tenure does have an effect on valuation

- LCFC have net assets of £47m in 2015 up from 16m in 2014. CCFC has net liabilities of 30m as a group

- LCFC is cash flow positive 5.7m 2015 and 7m positive in 2014. CCFC cash flow negative 128k 2015 and 92k negative 2014 - ie we spend more cash than we get in.

- LCFC owe the owners 9m in loans, in L1 the group loans SBS&L have outstanding to its owners are 36m

There is more but the gist of it is I am not embarrassed by the LCFC success because physically, on or off the pitch, financially, owner funding or what ever way you choose to look at it we are not in the same league. There is no shame for CCFC fans in what LCFC have done only a large dollop of envy, unless of course you have an unrealistic view of what CCFC has become and is

So basically they gambled on investing and are now reaping the rewards and made a 26 million profit in the season where they just scrapped survival. Really for the owners that £26 million profit was £31 million.
They bought the stadium for £17 million it is now worth £40 million.

So if we had paid up and bought ACL without messing around it would likely have doubled in value.
Like it now has done for Wasps.

If SISU did have access to the funds a couple of years ago.
10 million buying ACL ( with a little negotiation)
25 million on a playing squad to try and get back to back promotions. We are already supposedly in debt to the tune of £40 million.

So another 35 million on that £75 million.

With £30 million pound yearly profits I am sure you would find s buyer prepared to take on that £75 million debt.

Instead we drove the ACL price down to the extent the rrelationship with the sellers eroded and Wasps picked it up for the bargain.
Moved out of Coventry alienated a large chunk of our fan base.
Caused a huge fall in attendances whilst at the same time having a policy of rigidly tying our budget to these attendences we are causing to fall.
Planned to spend the above mentioned 20-30 million on a new stadium.

Also regarding the attendances we have never had the success Leicester had during that time period (not since the 60's. What was our attendances then?)

You give us a promotion and top if the championship we would have very comparable attendances to Leicester

Grendel · May 5, 2016

dongonzalos said:
So basically they gambled on investing and are now reaping the rewards and made a 26 million profit in the season where they just scrapped survival. Really for the owners that £26 million profit was £31 million.
They bought the stadium for £17 million it is now worth £40 million.

So if we had paid up and bought ACL without messing around it would likely have doubled in value.
Like it now has done for Wasps.

If SISU did have access to the funds a couple of years ago.
10 million buying ACL ( with a little negotiation)
25 million on a playing squad to try and get back to back promotions. We are already supposedly in debt to the tune of £40 million.

So another 35 million on that £75 million.

With £30 million pound yearly profits I am sure you would find s buyer prepared to take on that £75 million debt.

Instead we drove the ACL price down to the extent the rrelationship with the sellers eroded and Wasps picked it up for the bargain.
Moved out of Coventry alienated a large chunk of our fan base.
Caused a huge fall in attendances whilst at the same time having a policy of rigidly tying our budget to these attendences we are causing to fall.
Planned to spend the above mentioned 20-30 million on a new stadium.

Also regarding the attendances we have never had the success Leicester had during that time period (not since the 60's. What was our attendances then?)

You give us a promotion and top if the championship we would have very comparable attendances to Leicester

Leicesters accounts are being investigated by the FA as the losses are in reality far higher than stated.

The true cost is massively in access of what's being quoted.

dongonzalos · May 5, 2016

Grendel said:
Leicesters accounts are being investigated by the FA as the losses are in reality far higher than stated.

The true cost is massively in access of what's being quoted.

They falsified their accounts? If they have done that they could be looking at criminal proceedings!!!

Grendel · May 5, 2016

dongonzalos said:
They falsified their accounts? If they have done that they could be looking at criminal proceedings!!!

What are you on about? The accounts are perfectly legal. The relationship with Trestellar is not illegal just a way of getting round FFP

Sky Blue Kid · May 5, 2016

Nick said:
So what has that got to do with paying for a rolls royce but getting a mini?

I said we are paying for what is in your avatar, which is Coventry City FC. Hence people didn't suddenly just get Leicester season tickets when they got promoted.

You are moaning about no investment, but you quite proudly say you don't put any money into the club.

I'll say this for the last time Nick. I've said on numerous occasions over the years. SISU sell a player on 6k pw. and allow the manager to bring in 2 players on 2k pw. making it 2k pw in the SISU coffers being saved but players brought in are shit compared to the one that's been sold(Inferior, not as good.... a mini in comparison to the Rolls Royce player that was on 6k pw) Yet still expect fans to buy into the idea that SISU are the Almighty ones. Get it now?

Nick · May 5, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
I'll say this for the last time Nick. I've said on numerous occasions over the years. SISU sell a player on 6k pw. and allow the manager to bring in 2 players on 2k pw. making it 2k pw in the SISU coffers being saved but players brought in are shit compared to the one that's been sold(Inferior, not as good.... a mini in comparison to the Rolls Royce player that was on 6k pw) Yet still expect fans to buy into the idea that SISU are the Almighty ones. Get it now?

You were replying about fans attending matches to increase potential budgets? Not about player wages?

What came first? the chicken or the egg?.... Do you offer a "Mini," and expect to get "Rolls Royce" money? Do you offer "Braised beef" and want "Sirloin Steak" money? Do you offer "Cubic Zirconium" and expect "Diamond" money? Wether you're a Car trader, Butcher, or a jeweller. You have a product first, then sell it... you don't ask for money before you have a product to sell!

So the football is a mini or braised beef, but where are the steak or rolls royce prices being asked?

Sky Blue Kid · May 5, 2016

Nick said:
You were replying about fans attending matches to increase potential budgets? Not about player wages?

So the football is a mini or braised beef, but where are the steak or rolls royce prices being asked?

I will ask one question of you Nick..... How much cheaper are tickets now, to when we were in the Premier league/1st division?

dongonzalos · May 5, 2016

Grendel said:
What are you on about? The accounts are perfectly legal. The relationship with Trestellar is not illegal just a way of getting round FFP

If they are intentionally not putting the true losses on the accounts as you said. Then that's falsifying accounts.
Or is it not as you said?
"The losses are in reality far higher than what is stated?"

Nick · May 5, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
I will ask one question of you Nick..... How much cheaper are tickets now, to when we were in the Premier league/1st division?

You can't really compare it to something years ago can you? We got relegated from the Premier League 15 years ago.

Prices of everything will have changed, it isn't SISU specific.

Compare the prices to other season ticket prices for the same years in different leagues and our league.

If we are paying around the same as most L1 teams, then the price of the mini in general has gone up. It isn't SISU asking for Rolls Royce prices is it?

chiefdave · May 5, 2016

dongonzalos said:
If they are intentionally not putting the true losses on the accounts as you said. Then that's falsifying accounts.
Or is it not as you said?
"The losses are in reality far higher than what is stated?"

Didn't they do something dodgy with the sponsorship? Sell the rights to a third party at an inflated price or something like that.

dongonzalos · May 5, 2016

chiefdave said:
Didn't they do something dodgy with the sponsorship? Sell the rights to a third party at an inflated price or something like that.

Oh a man city job, that's not the same as not recording your true loses on accounts. It's just slyly getting round the funding rules

chiefdave · May 5, 2016

dongonzalos said:
Oh a man city job, that's not the same as not recording your true loses on accounts. It's just slyly getting round the funding rules

From an article by David Conn

The investigation centres on a deal Leicester say they did in January 2014 with a company called Trestellar Ltd, to market the club in the UK and south-east Asia. That deal immediately produced an apparent £11m increase in Leicester’s sponsorship and commercial income, reducing the club’s loss from £34m the previous year. In the club’s most recent accounts, for 2014-15, Leicester say Trestellar sold the club’s main sponsorships – the name on the players’ shirts and the stadium – to King Power, the club’s owners.

The Thai owners were already sponsoring the shirt and stadium before the Trestellar deal; in 2012-13 Leicester’s sponsorship and other commercial income was £5.2m. After the Trestellar deal, with King Power still holding the same main sponsorships, the income immediately jumped to £16m.

That substantially reduced Leicester’s loss, which was otherwise likely to have resulted in a large fine under the Football League’s then new financial fair play rules by which all clubs agreed to cap losses at £8m to try to reduce excessive spending on players’ wages. Losses under FFP rules are not reduced by a club owner paying money to the club, or by doing so via sponsorship, if the amount paid is clearly inflated beyond market value.

Sky Blue Kid · May 5, 2016

Genuine question now.... How much is a adult season ticket at the Ricoh?

Nick · May 5, 2016

Sky Blue Kid said:
Genuine question now.... How much is a adult season ticket at the Ricoh?

Surely you know if you are moaning about the price?

Sky Blue Kid · May 5, 2016

Nick said:
Surely you know if you are moaning about the price?

How would I know.... I don't go to the Ricoh?
Are you going to tell me, or answer my question with another question.

So , what are our owners going to do now ............... (1 Viewer)

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