So if this is a forced takeover... (1 Viewer)

Nick said:

So if it isn't to get SISU out, it is actively aimed at the club which makes it so much worse.

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I personally don't think it's targeted at either the club or SISU in the grand scale of things.

There have been a few questionable decision that clear were - most noticeably recently the steps by CCC to prevent football being played at The Butts but equally SISU having as part of their 5 Point Plan that they'd be amalgamating the Academy with the first team training facility wasn't exactly the smartest move - especially now it's been shown to have been concocted by a PR company and was actually bullshit (the words of the former head of comms at CCFC, not mine).

Companies are there to make money - history, people or opinions don't come into it.

Some companies have taken steps to try and secure their financial position and one has stood still.

To try and say the one has been targeted for ruin is, in my opinion, misplaced.

Sick Boy said:

There is no evidence to suggest they want the club and why shouldn't they pump all the money they made from ccfc into Wasps? After all, they have no issues in lying to their own fans and moving a club permanently from it's home.

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Not saying they do want the club Sick, but the thread title is what if this is a forced takeover...many suggest nobody would want the club because they don't own their own stadium and are starved of income streams. WASPs would seem a likely owner, given that criteria.

Nick said:

Why wouldn't they spit it out with an amazing plan for what they are going to do and how they are going to benefit the club? Surely that would be something that most people would get behind?

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I dare say some fans would get behind them if that was their plan, but we always hear of things being "confidential", who would show their hand until things were in place, particularly as you don't know what's up SISU's sleave. Their cloak and dagger approach so far has helped them get the council on side, buy out ACL and the Higgs share, and get them bedded in at the Higgs centre.

Nick said:

So if it isn't targetted at the club either and it is just a side effect from Wasps being here, then the council and councillors should maybe be asked questions about this:

http://democraticservices.coventry.gov.uk/documents/s20568/Minutes - 07-10-14.pdf

As it could be seen as councillors being misinformed before asking to vote on something couldn't it?

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Asked what questions?

Sick Boy said:

We all want sisu gone but what gives the council and wasps the right to play God with the club and bring in a owner of their choice??!!

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Certainly wouldn't trust either of their judgements

ccfclinney said:

Who's going to buy a club that don't own its own stadium .. getting kicked out its accademy facility .. Has a mortgage on training ground and doesn't really have assets .. Be a bit of an idiot if you did

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I would suggest the only people who would. Would be the person who controls the stadium and the academy site. However the club isn't for sale.
To be honest if I didn't want the club anymore and I had no options left I would be approaching the person who had control of the stadium and academy site and seeing what I could get out of it.

Why would anyone want the hedge fund that owns Wasps to own us? Didn't they enquire about the Ricoh before they even owned Wasps?

They showed complete disregard for their fans, our club and city. They would be just as likely to squeeze as much money out of the club as possible to pump into Wasp.

Sick Boy said:

Why would anyone want the hedge fund that owns Wasps to own us? Didn't they enquire about the Ricoh before they even owned Wasps?

They showed complete disregard for their fans, our club and city. They would be just as likely to squeeze as much money out of the club as possible to pump into Wasp.

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I agree Sick - I would much rather SISU actually tried to do the right thing and invest, sort us out, then try and sell us on to people who want CCFC to succeed. Or sell us to some rich fan who can afford to waste a few million (yeah, I know that's very unlikely).
I'd rather it was someone totally committed to the City but If WASPs did actually take us on, I doubt they would want the headache of bleeding us dry to simply funnel money into the Rugby side. What would be the point of that - didn't Herman say we only made £75k last year or something like that? Surely there is a greater opportunity of them making money by the Coventry public getting behind a successful CCFC, with all the riches of the Prem to aim for.

Nick said:

Surely that the information and "conditions" are not really being kept to or are clearly incorrect.

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How aren't they? You need to look at the situation in the whole rather than specific parts.

As much as people seem to be trying to brush the points to one side - after the Wasps deal was completed Fisher said the following -

"City’s chief executive, Tim Fisher, insists they do not regret failing to buy the Ricoh, saying they could not agree to taking it on, as Wasps have done, not only for £5.4m but with the council’s £14m loan on the stadium still to pay. Fisher acknowledged the widespread scepticism at Sisu’s claim it will build a new stadium but said the company has recently made “giant strides” towards completing on land “on the outskirts of Coventry”, at a location yet to be revealed. Fisher said Sisu is not “playing a game” but genuinely planning to build the stadium, while enabling commercial development that will make it financially viable and produce year-round income.

“The scepticism is misplaced,” Fisher said. “We are moving the club to a self-sustaining model and are looking to grow, in a new stadium where we will have our own matchday and non-matchday revenues.”"

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/dec/23/coventry-city-wasps-ricoh-arena

Last January a Five Point Plan was put forward on the CCFC website saying that the Academy and first team training were going to be amalgamated in single facility -

"CCFC is moving towards the fully integrated football model whereby there is no longer a silo model in which Academy and the first team group rarely work together.

Dismantling the silos both promotes the acceleration of young players’ development and is aspirational for the younger players – they work with the first team group which includes former Academy players – therefore encouraging others to follow the very same pathway.

The vision incorporates a first team-Academy training facility – a facility that is designed and built to facilitate and future proof a Category One status. Having the first team and Academy working on the same site inspires. "

http://mobile.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/the-way-forward-coventry-city-020115-2177171.aspx

In March last year a minuted meeting was held involving Fisher and Rugby Council regarding building of a new stadium and incorporating a joint Academy and first team training facility -

Link to minutes - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/ne.../BINARY/Read the stadium meeting minutes here

Whilst I'm sure they'll be the - 'Yes but Fisher is full of it' and 'That doesn't mean CCFC were handing in notice to leave Higgs' as I said earlier business are about making money - why would they leave themselves open to having facilities not being used? Why wouldn't you work with a company who have stated a long term interest?

Furthermore, how could the council/councillors have foreseen that SISU wouldn't have wanted to move forward in this manner outside of the city?

You can't protect something that's outside of the area you have control over.

The fact the plans were either BS or didn't come to fruition aren't the fault of CCC/Wasps/Higgs/ACL.

I just don't buy into this 'poor old SISU' nonsense that some seem to.

The club has been on it's arse for years and SISU have done nothing to help the situation, in fact we're at one of our lowest ever points and people are just pointing the finger of blame and coming out with all manner of conspiracy stories etc.

SISU have tried to play people and constantly been caught with their pants down.

The fact I hold these views seems to mean I'm a Wasps fan apparently (despite those saying this not actually being able to back it up' or that I'm not a 'true CCFC fan'.

All this repetitive nonsense just needs to stop and stock being taken of the actual situation.

If you don't agree with someone opinion and you've told them two already do you really need to go over it again (and again and again) on numerous threads?

People are talking about organising protests, action, petitions etc but being absolutely honest I really don't think the vast majority of the city are arsed either about CCFC or Wasps.

The City of Rugby thing has come about because money talks - it's not more proof of a master plan to kill CCFC dead in the water.

As I've said on a number of occasions I point the finger of blame re our current situation squarely at Tim Fisher - to quick with a soundbite but his track record of them coming to fruition is zero - sorry one, moving to Northampton, which I suspect he also didn't think would actually come to fruition as he thought ACL/CCC would back down once the threat of moving the team had been made.

I want CCFC to still be around for my kids to also force their kids to follow, but squabbling isn't going to make that happen either here or amongst the main protagonist in this ongoing drama.

All parties need to get round a table and work out what can be best achieved for all parties.

At this point, unfortunately, CCFC are not only the ones holding the worst hand their also the most vulnerable - whilst the other parties should take this into account, so should SISU. It difficult to give it the big I am when you're actually not.

If you've reached this fair in my ramblings, firstly well done but also don't think I hate CCFC and love Wasps just because I look at the bigger picture.

Hopefully much sooner, rather than later this bigger picture will look far better for CCFC than it currently does.

armybike said:

If you've reached this fair in my ramblings, firstly well done

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I may have reached this far but can't remember what you said

armybike said:

How aren't they? You need to look at the situation in the whole rather than specific parts.

As much as people seem to be trying to brush the points to one side - after the Wasps deal was completed Fisher said the following -

"City’s chief executive, Tim Fisher, insists they do not regret failing to buy the Ricoh, saying they could not agree to taking it on, as Wasps have done, not only for £5.4m but with the council’s £14m loan on the stadium still to pay. Fisher acknowledged the widespread scepticism at Sisu’s claim it will build a new stadium but said the company has recently made “giant strides” towards completing on land “on the outskirts of Coventry”, at a location yet to be revealed. Fisher said Sisu is not “playing a game” but genuinely planning to build the stadium, while enabling commercial development that will make it financially viable and produce year-round income.

“The scepticism is misplaced,” Fisher said. “We are moving the club to a self-sustaining model and are looking to grow, in a new stadium where we will have our own matchday and non-matchday revenues.”"

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/dec/23/coventry-city-wasps-ricoh-arena

Last January a Five Point Plan was put forward on the CCFC website saying that the Academy and first team training were going to be amalgamated in single facility -

"CCFC is moving towards the fully integrated football model whereby there is no longer a silo model in which Academy and the first team group rarely work together.

Dismantling the silos both promotes the acceleration of young players’ development and is aspirational for the younger players – they work with the first team group which includes former Academy players – therefore encouraging others to follow the very same pathway.

The vision incorporates a first team-Academy training facility – a facility that is designed and built to facilitate and future proof a Category One status. Having the first team and Academy working on the same site inspires. "

http://mobile.ccfc.co.uk/news/article/the-way-forward-coventry-city-020115-2177171.aspx

In March last year a minuted meeting was held involving Fisher and Rugby Council regarding building of a new stadium and incorporating a joint Academy and first team training facility -

Link to minutes - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/article9188631.ece/BINARY/Read the stadium meeting minutes here

Whilst I'm sure they'll be the - 'Yes but Fisher is full of it' and 'That doesn't mean CCFC were handing in notice to leave Higgs' as I said earlier business are about making money - why would they leave themselves open to having facilities not being used? Why wouldn't you work with a company who have stated a long term interest?

Furthermore, how could the council/councillors have foreseen that SISU wouldn't have wanted to move forward in this manner outside of the city?

You can't protect something that's outside of the area you have control over.

The fact the plans were either BS or didn't come to fruition aren't the fault of CCC/Wasps/Higgs/ACL.

I just don't buy into this 'poor old SISU' nonsense that some seem to.

The club has been on it's arse for years and SISU have done nothing to help the situation, in fact we're at one of our lowest ever points and people are just pointing the finger of blame and coming out with all manner of conspiracy stories etc.

SISU have tried to play people and constantly been caught with their pants down.

The fact I hold these views seems to mean I'm a Wasps fan apparently (despite those saying this not actually being able to back it up' or that I'm not a 'true CCFC fan'.

All this repetitive nonsense just needs to stop and stock being taken of the actual situation.

If you don't agree with someone opinion and you've told them two already do you really need to go over it again (and again and again) on numerous threads?

People are talking about organising protests, action, petitions etc but being absolutely honest I really don't think the vast majority of the city are arsed either about CCFC or Wasps.

The City of Rugby thing has come about because money talks - it's not more proof of a master plan to kill CCFC dead in the water.

As I've said on a number of occasions I point the finger of blame re our current situation squarely at Tim Fisher - to quick with a soundbite but his track record of them coming to fruition is zero - sorry one, moving to Northampton, which I suspect he also didn't think would actually come to fruition as he thought ACL/CCC would back down once the threat of moving the team had been made.

I want CCFC to still be around for my kids to also force their kids to follow, but squabbling isn't going to make that happen either here or amongst the main protagonist in this ongoing drama.

All parties need to get round a table and work out what can be best achieved for all parties.

At this point, unfortunately, CCFC are not only the ones holding the worst hand their also the most vulnerable - whilst the other parties should take this into account, so should SISU. It difficult to give it the big I am when you're actually not.

If you've reached this fair in my ramblings, firstly well done but also don't think I hate CCFC and love Wasps just because I look at the bigger picture.

Hopefully much sooner, rather than later this bigger picture will look far better for CCFC than it currently does.

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I did actually read it all - and agree with a great deal.

My anger is centred on the fact that CCFC is like a man laying seriously injured on the ground whilst Wasps are kicking the life out of him.... The bystanders are cheering despite supposedly being the mans friends - trouble is they don't like his wife.

Sick Boy said:

Why would anyone want the hedge fund that owns Wasps to own us? Didn't they enquire about the Ricoh before they even owned Wasps?

They showed complete disregard for their fans, our club and city. They would be just as likely to squeeze as much money out of the club as possible to pump into Wasp.

Click to expand...

Not saying I want Wasps, it's just what I would do if I were SISU.
What would you do?

armybike said:

after the Wasps deal was completed Fisher said the following -

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largely irrelevant in this situation.
Certain conditions were put before the council to get their agreement to sell to Wasps in the 1st place.
Most of these conditions have not been met. Had they been excluded from the original debate would the council still have made the same decision?

dongonzalos said:

Not saying I want Wasps, it's just what I would do if I were SISU.
What would you do?

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I'd be winding ccfc up once I'd exhaustef all possibilities, as my wider busineds would need there to be consequences.

Ian1779 said:

I did actually read it all - and agree with a great deal.

My anger is centred on the fact that CCFC is like a man laying seriously injured on the ground whilst Wasps are kicking the life out of him.... The bystanders are cheering despite supposedly being the mans friends - trouble is they don't like his wife.

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Who is cheering?

There is a big difference between cheering and knowing who is to blame.

The situation is shit, I take no pleasure in it. As my football club gets hurt but it definitely seems like SISU as a company are "reaping what you sow"
Unfortunately we always get caught in the cross fire.

mrtrench said:

It's entirely feasible and I'd welcome it. There are hedge funds and there are hedge funds - we were just unlucky to get a crap one. I cannot see Wasps sitting on their hands and not investing when there's the premiership money beckoning. The big question however is if SISU would roll over; even if they had nothing to gain I could see them refusing out of spite.

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Lol. The chances of premiership money is remote, so many teams vying for promotion, wasps would have to invest £45-50m+ like Bournemouth and then that might not be enough. If there's on thing wasps have shown us, is they don't like spending too much money - the Ricoh on the cheap, the bonds to pay the owners back, land at higgs for £400k plus peppercorn rent, then building a training centre but getting sponsored to pay some of the costs.

They arent going to take us on throwing mega bucks on us on the off chance we might get promotion, and as OSB says it actually adds risks to the bonds

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Deleted member 5849 said:

I'd be winding ccfc up once I'd exhaustef all possibilities, as my wider busineds would need there to be consequences.

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What would you do with the golden share as you are winding up?

dongonzalos said:

What would you do with the golden share as you are winding up?

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It would refer back to the fa and we would have to start again where AFC Wimbledon started.

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dongonzalos said:

Who is cheering?

There is a big difference between cheering and knowing who is to blame.

The situation is shit, I take no pleasure in it. As my football club gets hurt but it definitely seems like SISU as a company are "reaping what you sow"
Unfortunately we always get caught in the cross fire.

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Don I'm not talking about you - but you only need to go onto Twitter, the CET site to see that there are people that are relishing in our struggles. And they call themselves fans.

We've done blame - and it falls at everyone's feet. Some people want to go further to exact revenge and don't care what happens as a result.

dongonzalos said:

Who is cheering?

There is a big difference between cheering and knowing who is to blame.

The situation is shit, I take no pleasure in it. As my football club gets hurt but it definitely seems like SISU as a company are "reaping what you sow"
Unfortunately we always get caught in the cross fire.

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They are all to blame sisu, CCC, higgs, CSF and wasps

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You are right however....
As always with blame some are more culpable than others

dongonzalos said:

What would you do with the golden share as you are winding up?

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The club would have gone into oblivion, its league place would be no more.

Ian1779 said:

Don I'm not talking about you - but you only need to go onto Twitter, the CET site to see that there are people that are relishing in our struggles. And they call themselves fans.

We've done blame - and it falls at everyone's feet. Some people want to go further to exact revenge and don't care what happens as a result.

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Shooting yourself in the foot to hurt SISU.
Not my idea of fun.
It's a bit like when there was suggested potential solutions that may have involved compromising a bit with the council or Wasps and people arguing against due to their hate if the council and wasps
Crazy stuff.
No deal ever gets done without compromise.

dongonzalos said:

You are right however....
As always with blame some are more culpable than others

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But that is irrelevant now.

What is relevant is that Wasps, along with their cronies want to destroy us.

We have to fight them.

dongonzalos said:

Not saying I want Wasps, it's just what I would do if I were SISU.
What would you do?

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I presume that ccfc is a small part of their overall portfolio and therefore if I was them, and we were self-sustainable, I would probably wait around in the hope that we actually manage to fluke a promotion or two.

The ridiculous thing is, is that in its present state, and coupled with the behaviour of wasps and ccc, we are now even less attractive to any prospective owners. Considering how hostile the ccc are to the club, why wold anyone want to get involved?!

dongonzalos said:

Shooting yourself in the foot to hurt SISU.
Not my idea of fun.
It's a bit like when there was suggested potential solutions that may have involved compromising a bit with the council or Wasps and people arguing against due to their hate if the council and wasps
Crazy stuff.
No deal ever gets done without compromise.

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We should have some pride and have as little do with Wasps as possible.

Sick Boy said:

We should have some pride and have as little do with Wasps as possible.

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So what would you do?

dongonzalos said:

What would you do with the golden share as you are winding up?

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We'd probably find out that some fucker has gone and lost it again!!!!

Where's that good egg Appleton??

Sick Boy said:

I presume that ccfc is a small part of their overall portfolio and therefore if I was them, and we were self-sustainable, I would probably wait around in the hope that we actually manage to fluke a promotion or two.

The ridiculous thing is, is that in its present state, and coupled with the behaviour of wasps and ccc, we are now even less attractive to any prospective owners. Considering how hostile the ccc are to the club, why wold anyone want to get involved?!

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But what would you do when our contract expires in 2018
If what people are saying is true that we are not wanted?

Ian1779 said:

I did actually read it all - and agree with a great deal.

My anger is centred on the fact that CCFC is like a man laying seriously injured on the ground whilst Wasps are kicking the life out of him.... The bystanders are cheering despite supposedly being the mans friends - trouble is they don't like his wife.

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Firstly, a great analogy, but personally I don't see it that way.

I don't think anyone is glad that CCFC are on their knees/laying seriously injured - they're disdain is towards SISU who have allowed them to become seriously ill by not paying them the attention they need - as their focus and attention has been elsewhere.

People hate SISU, do some see CCFC and SISU as one thing, yes I guess some do - but I think most are able to see the two elements.

The fact CCFC are in the third tier also doesn't help and I don't specifically put any blame on SISU for this being the case, but it doesn't help when trying to rally support for people to get behind CCFC.

I don't think Wasps are kicking the life out of CCFC more taking advantage of the gaps left by them having not been looked after properly.

Do I agree with this - No.

Do I think business have and always will act like this - yes.

Business need to make money, especially when you've piled your potential of collapse as high as Wasps have with their shares type set up.

They need to maximise their position and have done it very well (no, I'm not a fan!) and the feeling towards SISU that many hold has only assist in this.

dongonzalos said:

But what would you do when our contract expires in 2018
If what people are saying is true that we are not wanted?

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Tough it out until the litigation stops which I guess will be about 5 years from now.

tisza said:

largely irrelevant in this situation.
Certain conditions were put before the council to get their agreement to sell to Wasps in the 1st place.
Most of these conditions have not been met. Had they been excluded from the original debate would the council still have made the same decision?

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I'm not sure you read my full post - this was covered.

Grendel said:

Tough it out until the litigation stops which I guess will be about 5 years from now.

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Back in Northampton?
To sustain the model of self sufficient over there you would need to be out of the league
I don't think even division 4 would cut it on those crowds

dongonzalos said:

But what would you do when our contract expires in 2018
If what people are saying is true that we are not wanted?

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No idea to be honest but I resent us being dictated to by another hedge fund trying to distress the club.

If it truly came to us having nowhere to go, I would probably liquidate the club and start again.

Perhaps then our fans and the footballing world would finally wake up to what has happened to us.