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So Do All Teams Need Time to Gel? (8 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Grendel
  • Start date Aug 23, 2012
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Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #71
stupot07 said:
Awful? They weren't awful, they lacked a bit of quality up front but their midfield controlled the game for the vast majority of the game, and in Quinn had the beat player on the pitch by a mile.
Click to expand...

i thought Sheff Utd looked a good strong side who will be there or thereabouts for sure.

People have remembered that we are now in a league lower and that the quality isn't as good haven't they? The Blades lacked a killer edge up front but looked quite solid at the back and had a very strong midfield.

Anyway, if Sheff Utd were awful then what did that make us on Tuesday?
 

Il Pirata

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #72
In theory if all 24 clubs in League 1 had 6-7 new players who needed to gel into a team several of them would still win games. It wouldn't be twelve 0-0 draws for the first few rounds of games.
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #73
ClarrieB said:
I can accept the 'need to gel' as an argument for being a little rusty but it shouldn't be used as a justification for failure when it's plainly a result of something else -I think that is what bother's some - it's when it is used as a way to prepare for acceptance of failure in the interim - Excuse makes always have a good one ready and I just think we will be getting a season full of them.
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Oh sure, but I'm not using it to excuse anything, and neither is anyone else. It's more a matter of stating reality as it is-and why would anyone need an excuse? What failure?
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #74
Grendel said:
True but of course there are concerns after last season. Things that will have to be addresses are;

Away wins need to be achieved
We need to win games when we get ahead
We need to be fluid and play well for long periods not just 20 minutes per match

At the moment it is a new division but the same tactical errors and the same outcome.
Click to expand...


Yes, stating we need to gel now would be a terrible excuse for last season: after all, it's in the past...:facepalm:
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #75
Grendel said:
No the facts relate to League games - for all I know Doncaster fielded a weakened side against York - I cannot be bothered to look.

The only relevant starts are regarding the League which is why the attempt at diversion.
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I dunno-why are you talking about last season?
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #76
Sick Boy said:
Why is it this season in particular that we need time to 'gel'?

I have never heard it used as an excuse before?

Do some teams and players gel better than others?
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99.9% of City fans can tell you why it wasn't an excuse last season! And anyway it isn't an excuse now, there's nothing to excuse..
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #77
SkyBlue_Taylor said:
Because last season we signed 3 players, 2 GKs, and 1 striker, who didn't start the season... :facepalm:

So only Murphy had to 'gel', but GKs don't necessarily need to gel.

But this season we have signed 9 players, with apparently at least 1 more to come (McGoldrick/Trotta and Robinson?)
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We should have got off to a flyer last season against 10 man Leicester then.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #78
lordsummerisle said:
We should have got off to a flyer last season against 10 man Leicester then.
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No there were too many children.
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #79
lordsummerisle said:
We should have got off to a flyer last season against 10 man Leicester then.
Click to expand...

How many players left without being replaced? And around we go again...it's getting tiresome, this.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #80
Nonleagueherewecome said:
How many players left without being replaced? And around we go again...it's getting tiresome, this.
Click to expand...

But the replacements would have needed time to gel - good job we didn't sign any or we may have struggled.
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #81
Nonleagueherewecome said:
How many players left without being replaced? And around we go again...it's getting tiresome, this.
Click to expand...

King and Gunnarsson.

Our team was pretty much our first choice, only "kid" in the team the potential £25million player Bigi, only player not previously with us was Murphy.

Leicester had 7 players making their debut.

We had one.

Can't use "gelling" argument only when it suits you.
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #82
lordsummerisle said:
King and Gunnarsson.

Our team was pretty much our first choice, only "kid" in the team the potential £25million player Bigi, only player not previously with us was Murphy.

Leicester had 7 players making their debut.

We had one.

Can't use "gelling" argument only when it suits you.
Click to expand...

It was 1st choice as it was all that was left. Gelling is irrelevent if you are making your league debut or just plain shit. We didn't lose to Leicester due to gelling: we lost to them as they totally outclassed us.

A pub team wouldn't beat Man U just because they'd played together for 5 years, would they?

And I'm not using the gelling argument anyway-just tearing to pieces those that are attempting to because their vendetta obsesses them so.
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #83
Nonleagueherewecome said:
It was 1st choice as it was all that was left. Gelling is irrelevent if you are making your league debut or just plain shit. We didn't lose to Leicester due to gelling: we lost to them as they totally outclassed us.

A pub team wouldn't beat Man U just because they'd played together for 5 years, would they?

And I'm not using the gelling argument anyway-just tearing to pieces those that are attempting to because their vendetta obsesses them so.
Click to expand...

This is you tearing us to pieces?


Do you get somebody to pass you the toilet paper?
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #84
lordsummerisle said:
This is you tearing us to pieces?


Do you get somebody to pass you the toilet paper?
Click to expand...


I haven't seen any kind of counter-argument worthy of the name, just changing the subject.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #85
Nonleagueherewecome said:
It was 1st choice as it was all that was left. Gelling is irrelevent if you are making your league debut or just plain shit. We didn't lose to Leicester due to gelling: we lost to them as they totally outclassed us.

A pub team wouldn't beat Man U just because they'd played together for 5 years, would they?

And I'm not using the gelling argument anyway-just tearing to pieces those that are attempting to because their vendetta obsesses them so.
Click to expand...

Interestingly though you have stated that sides of higher quality take longer to get their act together so on that basis you would expect 7 new players to struggle.

No one on here has a vendetta against anyone that I can see.
 
R

RichieGunns

New Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #86
We simly didn't have the right team make up at the beginning of last season. As NLHWC has pointed out, we lost three players that were never replaced and this had an adverse effect on the team and how it played. You could almost say the team was demoralised because Gunnarson, Westwood etc weren't there anymore. Our strongest players had gone and no strong ones had been brought in to replace them. You then add the kids into the equasion who did do very well for themselves no doubt but they were no substitute for the quality we lost.

In any job you need to know the people your working with, what their strengths and weaknesses are etc. The same principle goes for football. If you don't know the lads on the pitch then theres no way you can be an effective team. When you go to make a pass, you should be able to pick out those that you know will be able to receive it confidently and then use it properly and not just hoof it away from themselves in fear. Brown is a good example of that fear factor, though im hoping he'll settle down soon or someone else will be brought in to replace him until he does. Jennings & Barton are the opposit. Players that have shown a calm demenor on the ball and an ability to pick out good players with their passes and as receiving players they show they know how to use the ball when its passed to them.

Yeh we brought players in but at the time they weren't the right players (O'Hallloran, ROD) or they were the right players, they just needed a longer time period to become the players they had been billed as (Cody). Neither of these situations helped our stricken club and it probably demoralised the players more because i think in their hearts they'd already seem the outcome of the season. Some like Keogh fought against it, tried their hardest to make sure it didn't happen while others (Like Clingan) were like the Captain of a sinking ship and instead of trying to stop it, they rather went down with the ship as it sank.

But in the end, what happened has happened. We have been relegated, we are not the big club we once were nor will we be that club again until some serious money is flooded into this club and something is done about our idiot owners. I see other clubs finding buyers and i wonder why we haven't but i think its down to the fact that SISU aren't actively seeking to sell the club. They are waiting for something to happen e.g. the club bounces back at the first attempt and they get a nice bit of money out of it, or it goes into administration and they use that as an excuse to recover what they can and then make a run for it OR they are hoping someone will come in with big money to buy the club and give them their 30 million. They could even be hoping these new owners would allow them to stay on with only a minimal % of ownership.

But to finish my rant with the gelling, the answer is simple. Some teams gel straight away, some don't gel at all and some do but they just need a little time. Thorn wont be able to use the excuss of gelling for much longer. I'd say after 4 to 6 games and then they shouldn't have any excuss. They should know each other well enough to play with each other as the effective team i mentioned. Anymore than that and theres something wrong, although i do recognise that some extenuating circumstances can lengthen that gelling period so with that in mind a maximum of 6 to 8 games for total cohesion would be the max i'd allow.
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #87
Grendel said:
Interestingly though you have stated that sides of higher quality take longer to get their act together so on that basis you would expect 7 new players to struggle.

No one on here has a vendetta against anyone that I can see.
Click to expand...

Look in the mirror

BTW no, I did not say that teams of higher quality take longer to gel. You've entirely missed my point if you think that's what I was saying!


I said that all teams take time to gel: during the "settling down" period (August-September), all teams are at the disadvantage. It levels the palying field-the good teams are grappling with a problem that is also afflicting the weak teams.

Later on, crap teams will be settled-but they'll still be crap. If a team is good, it is now good without the affliction of having to gel. A good team being settled won't have the fly in the ointment of settling to hamper them by October, so "the class will win out". This partly explains why CCFC in the past have had some good starts-the fact that we were essentially mediocre would get exposed once all the teams had "settled".

I've said a few times "is it really that hard to grasp?" Evidently, yes, it is for some people. Blinded by bias?
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #88
lordsummerisle said:
King and Gunnarsson.

Our team was pretty much our first choice, only "kid" in the team the potential £25million player Bigi, only player not previously with us was Murphy.

Leicester had 7 players making their debut.

We had one.

Can't use "gelling" argument only when it suits you.
Click to expand...
I remember the Leicester game well and you could visibly tell Leicester were a new team playing their first games together that day, both teams were poor and we had no goal threat that day which was our downfall, it was a tight game which was decided by a set piece
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #89
CCFC said:
I remember the Leicester game well and you could visibly tell Leicester were a new team playing their first games together that day, both teams were poor and we had no goal threat that day which was our downfall, it was a tight game which was decided by a set piece
Click to expand...

For me it was a matter of quality-they were the better team and had more nous.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #90
CCFC said:
I remember the Leicester game well and you could visibly tell Leicester were a new team playing their first games together that day, both teams were poor and we had no goal threat that day which was our downfall, it was a tight game which was decided by a set piece
Click to expand...
Yeah it was a lame performance we did'nt deserve to lose ,very level and in numbers also with both sendings off ,just some poor defending let us down at a set piece
,alas may have given us a little impetus tfor the rest of the season,history now.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #91
wingy said:
Yeah it was a lame performance we did'nt deserve to lose ,very level and in numbers also with both sendings off ,just some poor defending let us down at a set piece
,alas may have given us a little impetus tfor the rest of the season,history now.
Click to expand...

Not really history. Just another mind numbing game courtesy of the clueless one.
 

Nonleagueherewecome

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #92
Grendel said:
Not really history. Just another mind numbing game courtesy of the clueless one.
Click to expand...

Says a man with no vendetta.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #93
Grendel said:
Not really history. Just another mind numbing game courtesy of the clueless one.
Click to expand...
Like the thread!!
 
C

ClarrieB

New Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #94
Nonleagueherewecome said:
Says a man with no vendetta.
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Is everyone who thinks Thorn is clueless accused of having a vendetta - you can think him clueless and even unworthy with having a vendetta.
 

kg82

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #95
ClarrieB said:
Is everyone who thinks Thorn is clueless accused of having a vendetta - you can think him clueless and even unworthy with having a vendetta.
Click to expand...

How?! Surely the passive, aggressive nature of the post's scream "VENDETTA"!!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #96
kg82 said:
How?! Surely the passive, aggressive nature of the post's scream "VENDETTA"!!
Click to expand...

Has anyone had a vendetta against any manager? Must be at least one you thought was not up to it. Hardly a vendetta, just a conclusion you draw from what you witness.
 

kg82

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #97
Grendel said:
Has anyone had a vendetta against any manager? Must be at least one you thought was not up to it. Hardly a vendetta, just a conclusion you draw from what you witness.
Click to expand...

Yup, there are managers I haven't particularly liked but I definitely did not talk about them all day!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #98
kg82 said:
Yup, there are managers I haven't particularly liked but I definitely did not talk about them all day!
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I don't think I have disliked any manager. That suggests emotion - my conclusions are based on facts and cold hearted reality.
 
R

RichieGunns

New Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #99
I hated Reid...do that count as a Vendetta
 

kg82

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #100
Grendel said:
I don't think I have disliked any manager. That suggests emotion - my conclusions are based on facts and cold hearted reality.
Click to expand...

Okay...........
 
C

craigSKYBLUE

New Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #101
I think any team with 6 new players in a starting line up need time to gel click whatever..be foolish to think otherwise
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #102
craigSKYBLUE said:
I think any team with 6 new players in a starting line up need time to gel click whatever..be foolish to think otherwise
Click to expand...

Other than the 3 who are top of the league with maximum points.:facepalm:
 
C

craigSKYBLUE

New Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #103
Grendel said:
Other than the 3 who are top of the league with maximum points.:facepalm:
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To be fair.you would moan if we had 6 points on the board
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #104
Grendel said:
Other than the 3 who are top of the league with maximum points.:facepalm:
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Just how good are these teams going to be once they finally start gelling?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Aug 23, 2012
  • #105
craigSKYBLUE said:
To be fair.you would moan if we had 6 points on the board
Click to expand...

Puerile statement. Not really worthy of response but I will. No I wouldn't moan but we haven't so I can only put this down as an attempt at diverting a question you have no answer to.
 
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