So Do All Teams Need Time to Gel? (1 Viewer)

Grendel · Aug 23, 2012

So last season we were forced to play too many children. This season we need time to gel.

If this is the case I would expect the 3 teams who are top of the League to have fairly settled teams carried over from last season.

So on Saturday how many débuts did the teams with 100% records hand out;

Tranmere - 7
Notts County - 6
Doncaster - 6

I can understand Preston struggling (well they have 1 point less than us) - they handed 10 players débuts on Saturday.

So - why have other teams started so well and yet have the same or more additions to the first team.

LJC_CCFC · Aug 23, 2012

Grendel said:
So last season we were forced to play too many children. This season we need time to gel.

If this is the case I would expect the 3 teams who are top of the League to have fairly settled teams carried over from last season.

So on Saturday how many débuts did the teams with 100% records hand out;

Tranmere - 7
Notts County - 6
Doncaster - 6

I can understand Preston struggling (well they have 1 point less than us) - they handed 10 players débuts on Saturday.

So - why have other teams started so well and yet have the same or more additions to the first team.

Well county have played crewe and hartlepool, donny have played walsall and bury. Four teams guaranteed to finish anywhere from 16th downwards

Nick · Aug 23, 2012

Were Yeovil not favourites for Relegation though?

lordsummerisle · Aug 23, 2012

Nick said:
Were Yeovil not favourites for Relegation though?

They were, but the only odds that appear to count are that Sheffield United were favourites to go up.

Grendel · Aug 23, 2012

Yeovil made 6 debutants on Saturday as well.

Black6Osprey · Aug 23, 2012

All this time to gel business is about fine tuning.

The first half against Sheff Utd has got nothing to do with fine tuning. No tempo, no desire, poor passing, simple mistakes. Its just an excuse that the fans are clinging to rather than think the latest group aren't quite as good as they hoped.

Grendel · Aug 23, 2012

LJC_CCFC said:
Well county have played crewe and hartlepool, donny have played walsall and bury. Four teams guaranteed to finish anywhere from 16th downwards

Should be an easy 3 points then on Saturday -- and what about Tranmere? 7 new players Saturday?

aodea · Aug 23, 2012

Its an intresting topic. Depends on systems and style of play as well. A player coming from a team that is about say for example moving the ball directly and quickly forward will struggle with a team that has a patient passing approach. Players play in teams and it takes awhile for them to adjust as they can be so used to playing a set way in another side. I feel that Jennings and Fleck may take time to adjust but Kilbane i thought should have hit the ground running. Again the work done in training is vital to easing players in.

My own club is an example of this. Three years ago we got essentially an entire new team and we finished 7th out of 14 in the divsion we play in. Howver the followwing season we exactly the same players as we did not have one new addition we finished 2nd and got promoted. We were more comfortable with each other and adapted to what our manager wanted us too do. That is the case with any club and any players, yes some players will adapt sooner but in general every team will take awhile of playing together to gel.

be patient with the new lads and be optimistic that come january we will still be in touch and then we should start to see huge improvments in performances. At the moment results are key not performance and if we can big up wins and draws without playing a solid 90 mins that will come.

LJC_CCFC · Aug 23, 2012

Grendel said:
Yeovil made 6 debutants on Saturday as well.

Yh but what has become clear is Yeovil were severely underestimated which was shown in their 3-1 win over 'play-off' hopefuls brentford

Gaz · Aug 23, 2012

Grendel said:
So last season we were forced to play too many children. This season we need time to gel.

If this is the case I would expect the 3 teams who are top of the League to have fairly settled teams carried over from last season.

So on Saturday how many débuts did the teams with 100% records hand out;

Tranmere - 7
Notts County - 6
Doncaster - 6

I can understand Preston struggling (well they have 1 point less than us) - they handed 10 players débuts on Saturday.

So - why have other teams started so well and yet have the same or more additions to the first team.

I don't think that there is a book out there that says all players gel as a team in such and such time.
Things are different in life.
Plus we are only two games in ...

LJC_CCFC · Aug 23, 2012

Grendel said:
Should be an easy 3 points then on Saturday -- and what about Tranmere? 7 new players Saturday?

Yh in all honesty it should, no doubt we will make it hard for ourselves but anything less than 3 points would be a disappointment

stupot07 · Aug 23, 2012

How many started or were brought off the bench? I think it depends on which positions and who you still have led in your squad. 5 of our front 6 (midfield and strikers) who started on Saturday were debut's, that's the whole of the midfield the engine room of the team. Cody was the only player in the front 6 who started. Whereas 4 of the back 5 were here last season.

Grendel · Aug 23, 2012

aodea said:
be patient with the new lads and be optimistic that come january we will still be in touch and then we should start to see huge improvments in performances. At the moment results are key not performance and if we can big up wins and draws without playing a solid 90 mins that will come.

Disagree - performance is vital - it shows that correct tactics are deployed and a cohesive approach. We cannot afford to wait anywhere near that long for an improvement.

Grendel · Aug 23, 2012

stupot07 said:
How many started or were brought off the bench? I think it depends on which positions and who you still have led in your squad. 5 of our front 6 (midfield and strikers) who started on Saturday were debut's, that's the whole of the midfield the engine room of the team. Cody was the only player in the front 6 who started. Whereas 4 of the back 5 were here last season.

I didn't look at subs only the first 11.

Nick · Aug 23, 2012

LJC_CCFC said:
Yh but what has become clear is Yeovil were severely underestimated which was shown in their 3-1 win over 'play-off' hopefuls brentford

Maybe Sheff Utd were over estimated? I didn't rate them at all!

Black6Osprey · Aug 23, 2012

stupot07 said:
How many started or were brought off the bench? I think it depends on which positions and who you still have led in your squad. 5 of our front 6 (midfield and strikers) who started on Saturday were debut's, that's the whole of the midfield the engine room of the team. Cody was the only player in the front 6 who started. Whereas 4 of the back 5 were here last season.

And look how poorly the defence played as a whole. Perhaps they need more time to gel?

Diehard Si · Aug 23, 2012

Of course they do. Some teams and players might do it quicker than others. Some teams never really do ( England, team GB) and others go on to perform so much better than the sum of their parts ( Swansea, Blackpool, Norwich perhaps ).

It's up to Thorn and his staff to make it happen.

Gaz · Aug 23, 2012

Black6Osprey said:
All this time to gel business is about fine tuning.

The first half against Sheff Utd has got nothing to do with fine tuning. No tempo, no desire, poor passing, simple mistakes. Its just an excuse that the fans are clinging to rather than think the latest group aren't quite as good as they hoped.

I think it has.
For example, there was a good interview with one of our new signings Adam Barton where he said he needs a little time to get used to the system and how the other lads around him play.
So poor passing and simple mistakes can happen when players that havn't played much together are in the same team.

stupot07 · Aug 23, 2012

Black6Osprey said:
And look how poorly the defence played as a whole. Perhaps they need more time to gel?

I was talking about the yeovil game.

WillieStanley · Aug 23, 2012

Nick said:
Maybe Sheff Utd were over estimated? I didn't rate them at all!

They were awful! Absolutely awful.

I do think another factor is that almost none of our players have no RECENT experience on this league. It may take a while to adapt.

aodea · Aug 23, 2012

Grendel said:
Disagree - performance is vital - it shows that correct tactics are deployed and a cohesive approach. We cannot afford to wait anywhere near that long for an improvement.

Well i think that three games into a season to expect players to perform with each other having not played much together is unrealsitic. Barton and jennings have hardly kicked a football with the other players. Central players such as these two need to be aware of every players style. Need to know if wingers want it in behind or too feet. Whether full backs get forward, whether a center half will recieve a ball and look to go long or look for thier feet in Midfoeld. These areas will simple not be fine tuned yet. Does Barton now which foot players perfer to take a touch, does he know whether Mcdonald will show short or go long more often than the other. It is a long period even for a pro footballer.

Tactics and Cohesive approach yes i agree. But setting a team up tactially to defend corners to play a certain way is one thing players understanding each other and being able to that is another. What i would not accept is lack of workrate making silly sloppy defensive errors, conceding from a set piece as on sat. These have not got to do with players gelling. Playing free flowing football retaining possession creating chances very much do.

stupot07 · Aug 23, 2012

WillieStanley said:
They were awful! Absolutely awful.

I do think another factor is that almost none of our players have no RECENT experience on this league. It may take a while to adapt.

Awful? They weren't awful, they lacked a bit of quality up front but their midfield controlled the game for the vast majority of the game, and in Quinn had the beat player on the pitch by a mile.

Black6Osprey · Aug 23, 2012

stupot07 said:
I was talking about the yeovil game.

So am I. I was there and defensively we were all over the place at times. 3 of the back four have been at the club a while and it looked like we needed a few more seasons of gelling.

dongonzalos · Aug 23, 2012

aodea said:
Its an intresting topic. Depends on systems and style of play as well. A player coming from a team that is about say for example moving the ball directly and quickly forward will struggle with a team that has a patient passing approach. Players play in teams and it takes awhile for them to adjust as they can be so used to playing a set way in another side. I feel that Jennings and Fleck may take time to adjust but Kilbane i thought should have hit the ground running. Again the work done in training is vital to easing players in.

My own club is an example of this. Three years ago we got essentially an entire new team and we finished 7th out of 14 in the divsion we play in. Howver the followwing season we exactly the same players as we did not have one new addition we finished 2nd and got promoted. We were more comfortable with each other and adapted to what our manager wanted us too do. That is the case with any club and any players, yes some players will adapt sooner but in general every team will take awhile of playing together to gel.

be patient with the new lads and be optimistic that come january we will still be in touch and then we should start to see huge improvments in performances. At the moment results are key not performance and if we can big up wins and draws without playing a solid 90 mins that will come.

good post, it is not just the number of players introduced. It is the players themselves.
Wood and Malaga for example have quickly formed a partnership. When Edge and Malaga played together in friendles it was obvious for all to see that they would take longer to gel.

It is also the amount of time they get to play together. Yeovil for example have half the squad size of us. I am guessing in their friendlies a lot of them would have got a bit more playing time together.

To be honest it is a bit of a recognised fact of footballing life that new players in a team take time to settle.

Some dont, look at Robbie Keane. Others do, the man utd goalie. Gary macalister at cov, took a bit of time.

Personally I don't care about other teams, we have an away draw, I will take them all day long. We also have a home draw against one of the better teams in the division.

We will get better as our players bed in. No question mark in my mind.

It has to happen, the likes of Barton reading codey's runs, Malaga understanding when Clarke and hussey are likely to make a move.

Fleck having confidence that Jennings can cover him etc....

All these things take time. Is that really that impossible to comprehend.

Grendel · Aug 23, 2012

Ah right so it's just OUR players who take time to gel I see. The other teams players must be all English all played in league 1 and all played the same system - is that the argument?

Black6Osprey · Aug 23, 2012

dongonzalos said:
good post, it is not just the number of players introduced. It is the players themselves.
Wood and Malaga for example have quickly formed a partnership. When Edge and Malaga played together in friendles it was obvious for all to see that they would take longer to gel.

It is also the amount of time they get to play together. Yeovil for example have half the squad size of us. I am guessing in their friendlies a lot of them would have got a bit more playing time together.

To be honest it is a bit of a recognised fact of footballing life that new players in a team take time to settle.

Some dont, look at Robbie Keane. Others do, the man utd goalie. Gary macalister at cov, took a bit of time.

Personally I don't care about other teams, we have an away draw, I will take them all day long. We also have a home draw against one of the better teams in the division.

We will get better as our players bed in. No question mark in my mind.

It has to happen, the likes of Barton reading codey's runs, Malaga understanding when Clarke and hussey are likely to make a move.

Fleck having confidence that Jennings can cover him etc....

All these things take time. Is that really that impossible to comprehend.

All of that makes perfect sense but I dont think that's the issue. We in the main so far are failing at the basic stuff. Passing, movement, effort and desire. These have got nothing to do with the magical gelling process and upon completion, telepathic understanding is fused into the DNA of the team.

aodea · Aug 23, 2012

Grendel said:
Ah right so it's just OUR players who take time to gel I see. The other teams players must be all English all played in league 1 and all played the same system - is that the argument?

No its not just our players. Its also not a case of other teams having gelled. Im sure not one manager or set of fans at this stage of the season think there team is playing thier best football and its as good as its going to get. Well maybe Fulham and Swansea. We have shown signs that thier is a team there capable of playing will we see it for 90 mins in the frst few weeks of the season i dont think so. We will see spells of 10 or 15mins and hopefully this will get better. we have brought in a huge amount of players and we have to be patient. I belive being defensivly organised, working hard, being good at attacking and defending set pieces now are the areas where we should be on the ball. Gelling at making teams in this division look like there chasing shadows wont happen just yet.

Sick Boy · Aug 23, 2012

How long does it take to 'gel'? An entire season?

Grendel · Aug 23, 2012

Black6Osprey said:
All of that makes perfect sense but I dont think that's the issue. We in the main so far are failing at the basic stuff. Passing, movement, effort and desire. These have got nothing to do with the magical gelling process and upon completion, telepathic understanding is fused into the DNA of the team.

Correct. The same issues as last season. Positive play and results clearly are vital. They allow confidence and momentum.

Doncaster are a good example. Freed from the ghastly mackay project he is a good manager. The team will do well.

We are stalling. A win is vital on Saturday.

Grendel · Aug 23, 2012

Sick Boy said:
How long does it take to 'gel'? An entire season?

No it's until the excuse wears thin. Then we find another one.

dongonzalos · Aug 23, 2012

Grendel said:
Ah right so it's just OUR players who take time to gel I see. The other teams players must be all English all played in league 1 and all played the same system - is that the argument?

No just that we will get better. Other teams who have new players will take time to gel and the dynamics in different teams will be different.

I am not too concerned about other teams we have had a couple of good results and will get better as our team gels. That can only be a good thing and that I find it strange that anyone who knows anything about football, would be surprised at the idea that 6 or 7 New players in a team will get better as the season goes on and they develop better understanding of each other.

lordsummerisle · Aug 23, 2012

dongonzalos said:
No just that we will get better. Other teams who have new players will take time to gel and the dynamics in different teams will be different.

I am not too concerned about other teams we have had a couple of good results and will get better as our team gels. That can only be a good thing and that I find it strange that anyone who knows anything about football, would be surprised at the idea that 6 or 7 New players in a team will get better as the season goes on and they develop better understanding of each other.

Don't think anybody denies that as a team gets to know each other, or "gels", that they should get better.

However the same will be happening for all of the other teams, so will still be at the same level relative to them.

It's just that it seems to some that we're the only team that needs to gel.

Gaz · Aug 23, 2012

lordsummerisle said:
It's just that it seems to some that we're the only team that needs to gel.

TBF I don't think anyone has actually said that.

lordsummerisle · Aug 23, 2012

gaz said:
TBF I don't think anyone has actually said that.

Well, haven't seen anybody yet saying "Lucky that Yeovil/Sheffield Utd haven't had time to gel or they'd have hammered us".

Plenty saying that we'd have done better against them if we'd had time to gel though.

dongonzalos · Aug 23, 2012

Totally agree it will be happening to most teams.

However with us I think we have ground out a couple of draws. I think they are good results and we as a team will improve.

The question I suppose is some of the shoddy play due to us gelling or is it we are not doing the basics like another poster has said.

I hope it is us as a team gelling.

So Do All Teams Need Time to Gel? (1 Viewer)

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