Sisu (2 Viewers)

[Woodingdean_Sky_Blue]

You seem desperate to try to rubbish a not unreasonable point.

If the cost of St Andrews rent is more than the Ricoh, but it offers better access to income, then the deal at St Andrews is worse if there is no access to income.

That is not an unreasonable point!

I'm not desperate at all. I just would like to see some evidence to substantiate these fantastic claims.

 

---

[NorthernWisdom]

I'm not desperate at all.

Well, you are just a little bit.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

How much TV revenue do we get this season - as a lump sum and/or per game? That'll surely be up on last season.

 

[Woodingdean_Sky_Blue]

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

He used to live in the next village...

 

[Woodingdean_Sky_Blue]

Well, you are just a little bit.

Nope, not even a isty, bitsy bit.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Nope, not even a isty, bitsy bit.

You are.

Ooh, ah.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

But your figures are a complete guess, aren't they.

How about I say we pay £50 a year rent at St Andrews and were offered a deal for £500,050 at the Ricoh - then I can claim the club is half a million quid a year better off at St Andrews.

How about I then keep repeating the same bollocks until the less bright amongst us start believing it, simply because they've heard it said so many times.

Lol no one knows. Yet they talk factually.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Relegation and we’d be well and truly in the mire

To be fair, that's probably said numerous times in the last 20 years and we're still here (just)...

Get relegated from the Prem and we'll be in the mire
Don't get promoted from the Champ and we'll be in the mire
Get relegated to L1 and we'll be in the mire
Don't get promoted from L1 and we'll in the mire
Get relegated from L1 and we'll be in the mire
Don't get promoted from L2 and we'll be in the mire
Stay in L1 and we'll be in the mire
Get relegated from the Champ and we'll be in the mire


We literally could've trotted out the line in everyone of the occasions above. Not that I disagree with your point and there could be a time about a camel straw and a back breaking, but somehow we've managed to still stay in existence despite a number of administrations, 3 relegations, 2 trips 'away from home' and a fragmented fanbase for the large part.

Almost cockroach-esque if you ask me.

 

[Liquid Gold]

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Mason

Corrected

 

[Woodingdean_Sky_Blue]

You are.

Ooh, ah.

No way, Jose

 

[NorthernWisdom]

We literally could've trotted out the line in everyone of the occasions above. Not that I disagree with your point and there could be a time about a camel straw and a back breaking, but somehow we've managed to still stay in existence despite a number of administrations, 3 relegations, 2 trips 'away from home' and a fragmented fanbase for the large part.

Almost cockroach-esque if you ask me.

Personally I'm not convinced relegation is the financial catastrophe it's claimed. It was Fisher that said the model would work in lower divisions but not this one although, after signing the likes of Walker etc it could be suggested we've changed our model.

What relegation might see is Biamou as our de facto No. 9, on merit rather than because of injury. Maybe that's the catastrophe he's referring to

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Our owner isn’t making decisions based on what’s best for the football club.

Wow even those about the club? What is the basis for making decisions? Cost?

 

[Woodingdean_Sky_Blue]

Personally I'm not convinced relegation is the financial catastrophe it's claimed. It was Fisher that said the model would work in lower divisions but not this one although, after signing the likes of Walker etc it could be suggested we've changed our model.

What relegation might see is Biamou as our de facto No. 9, on merit rather than because of injury. Maybe that's the catastrophe he's referring to

It won't be a disaster, I read we're only paying £50 a year rent at St Andrews.


(See what I did there?)

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Personally I'm not convinced relegation is the financial catastrophe it's claimed. It was Fisher that said the model would work in lower divisions but not this one although, after signing the likes of Walker etc it could be suggested we've changed our model.

What relegation might see is Biamou as our de facto No. 9, on merit rather than because of injury. Maybe that's the catastrophe he's referring to

Agreed. Whilst I don't know enough about the specifics of our finances, a simple overview shows that it's not been great for, well, the best part of two decades and we're still here.

One thing we do seem good at is adaptability and cutting our cloth accordingly - despite the annoying actions that that brings (selling players etc).

If we do go down, I don't foresee any more issues than we had when we were at Northampton etc. That said, I still think King Mark will keep us up.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I don't foresee any more issues than we had when we were at Northampton etc.

That's a low bar, tbf!

 

[fernandopartridge]

I don't think BCFC actually owns its stadium, think they sold it the owners.

I checked out the annual report for their holding company, listed at the Hong Kong stock exchange: 2020102900414.pdf (hkexnews.hk)

Of course it could be income from other property owned by th group, but their rental income went up between 30/6/19 and 30/6/20 by around 20m HK$ which is £1.86m

 

[Frostie]

I don't think BCFC actually owns its stadium, think they sold it the owners.

I checked out the annual report for their holding company, listed at the Hong Kong stock exchange: 2020102900414.pdf (hkexnews.hk)

Of course it could be income from other property owned by th group, but their rental income went up between 30/6/19 and 30/6/20 by around 20m HK$ which is £1.86m

That's right, another that sold their ground to their owner to try & circumvent FFP

Birmingham losses down after ground sale

Birmingham report a pre-tax loss of £8.2m after selling St Andrew's to a company controlled by owner Paul Suen Cho Hung.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Woodingdean_Sky_Blue]

I don't think BCFC actually owns its stadium, think they sold it the owners.

I checked out the annual report for their holding company, listed at the Hong Kong stock exchange: 2020102900414.pdf (hkexnews.hk)

Of course it could be income from other property owned by th group, but their rental income went up between 30/6/19 and 30/6/20 by around 20m HK$ which is £1.86m

The accounts include the following statement:

"Investment in properties
The Group has invested in certain residential and commercial properties in Phnom Penh, Cambodia. The investment of properties secured a stable stream of income for the Group and the long-term appreciation in value of the investment properties can bring further values to the Company and the Shareholders as a whole. The management will continue to explore in this business segment and will make further investments as and when potential opportunities arise. "

Later in the accounts (pages 159-160) there is a list of the principal properties owned, they are all in Cambodia.

The accounts also tell us the stadium appears to be owned by Birmingham City Stadium Limited that in turn is owned by Birmingham Sports Holdings Ltd, so you won't see clear figures for the rental of St Andrews in the accounts you have.

Interestingly, there is mention of funding for redevelopment of the stadium.

 

[Grendel]

(See what I did there?)

Post like a twat?

 

[Woodingdean_Sky_Blue]

Post like a twat?

That's what you do, prick.

Now where are those fictitious accounts to back up your latest bullshit?

Worked out what Directors Remuneration actually includes yet?

 

[Grendel]

That's what you do, prick.

Now where are those fictitious accounts to back up your latest bullshit?

Worked out what Directors Remuneration actually includes yet?

It’s not my bullshit

The rent at the Ricoh before departing was minimal - around £300,000 - it’s fairly obvious the rent at St Andrews is higher than that and many sources have quoted the £50k a game.

It’s clearly more expensive and I’m sure Fisher somewhere acknowledged it but then blathered on about getting better revenues from F and B

Your obtuse behaviour is rather odd

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s not my bullshit

The rent at the Ricoh before departing was minimal - around £300,000 - it’s fairly obvious the rent at St Andrews is higher than that and many sources have quoted the £50k a game.

It’s clearly more expensive and I’m sure Fisher somewhere acknowledged it but then blathered on about getting better revenues from F and B

Your obtuse behaviour is rather odd

I guess if the insects are banning us from playing there the point is moot.

 

[Woodingdean_Sky_Blue]

It’s not my bullshit

The rent at the Ricoh before departing was minimal - around £300,000 - it’s fairly obvious the rent at St Andrews is higher than that and many sources have quoted the £50k a game.

It’s clearly more expensive and I’m sure Fisher somewhere acknowledged it but then blathered on about getting better revenues from F and B

Your obtuse behaviour is rather odd

You have no actual figures and no contracts. You're a bullshitter.

Piss off, weirdo.

 

[Grendel]

You have no actual figures and no contracts. You're a bullshitter.

Piss off, weirdo.

Well we do know how much we paid in rental costs in total at the last season at the Ricoh...

 

[Woodingdean_Sky_Blue]

You have no actual figures and no contracts to make a comparison.

You're a bullshitter.

Thank fuck you were also bullshitting when you said you were going to stand for election to the Trust. The last thing we all need is another uneducated, opinionated, twat like you.

 

[shmmeee]

Wow even those about the club? What is the basis for making decisions? Cost?

Decisions about where we play have nothing to do with the club. If they did we’d be back already. The only reason to stay away is wider political games/emotional reactions and always has been.

But your figures are a complete guess, aren't they.

How about I say we pay £50 a year rent at St Andrews and were offered a deal for £500,050 at the Ricoh - then I can claim the club is half a million quid a year better off at St Andrews.

How about I then keep repeating the same bollocks until the less bright amongst us start believing it, simply because they've heard it said so many times.

I mean, you’re not someone with links to the club and you aren’t being corroborated by others with links to the club, soooo

Sorry if it upsets you but based on the rumours from multiple sources those are roughly the figures. If you’ve got sources saying otherwise crack on, otherwise cry more.

 

[Woodingdean_Sky_Blue]

You have no idea who I am or who I might know.

If you'd read the thread you'd already have known:

"I have links with the club that go back decades and that are highly credible. I also know someone who formerly worked for the club and is a well known Walter Mitty who delights in telling tall tales."

Just because a bunch of provocateurs embark upon a course of misinformation doesn't make that misinformation true.

Come back when you've got copies of the relevant contracts, otherwise get lost.

 

[shmmeee]

You have no idea who I am or who I might know.

If you'd read the thread you'd already have known:

"I have links with the club that go back decades and that are highly credible. I also know someone who formerly worked for the club and is a well known Walter Mitty who delights in telling tall tales."

Just because a bunch of provocateurs embark upon a course of misinformation doesn't make that misinformation true.

Come back when you've got copies of the relevant contracts, otherwise get lost.

Is this you making a claim that we’re paying £50/yr at Stans? Cos if not I’ve got no fucking clue what you’re doing.

This is the fucking internet. Put up or shut up.

 

[Woodingdean_Sky_Blue]

Is this you making a claim that we’re paying £50/yr at Stans? Cos if not I’ve got no fucking clue what you’re doing.

This is the fucking internet. Put up or shut up.

The £50 pa is just an example of how anyone might make up a figure. What happened around the arrangement at St Andrews is someone (or a group) invented a figure and then set about repeating it at every possible opportunity. As Goebbels said:

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it "

You seem to be one of those keen on promoting the idea that a deal at St Andrews can't be as good as a deal at the Ricoh, even though you have precisely no actual evidence to support this. Tell me, do you admire what Goebbels did for the world of propaganda?

 

[BornSlippySkyBlue]

The £50 pa is just an example of how anyone might make up a figure. What happened around the arrangement at St Andrews is someone (or a group) invented a figure and then set about repeating it at every possible opportunity. As Goebbels said:

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it "

You seem to be one of those keen on promoting the idea that a deal at St Andrews can't be as good as a deal at the Ricoh, even though you have precisely no actual evidence to support this. Tell me, do you admire what Goebbels did for the world of propaganda?

You are absolutely correct of course that the accuracy of any figures in the public domain is unknown and could well be miles off. I’m curious though, are you saying that you know the figure to be wrong or are you simply pointing out that nobody actually knows?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Links with the club, air of desperation whenever anybody is vaguely critical, or offers a remotely negative viewpoint on the club's stewardship.

Hmmm...

 

[Grendel]

Links with the club, air of desperation whenever anybody is vaguely critical, or offers a remotely negative viewpoint on the club's stewardship.

Hmmm...

Indeed interesting isn’t it.

 

[Grendel]

The £50 pa is just an example of how anyone might make up a figure. What happened around the arrangement at St Andrews is someone (or a group) invented a figure and then set about repeating it at every possible opportunity. As Goebbels said:

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it "

You seem to be one of those keen on promoting the idea that a deal at St Andrews can't be as good as a deal at the Ricoh, even though you have precisely no actual evidence to support this. Tell me, do you admire what Goebbels did for the world of propaganda?

its clearly not as good a deal as it’s 20 miles away and the club had to slash prices to attract fewer supporters. We could if we were allowed I suppose play on a park pitch on the Isle Of Man for £10 a go but it wouldn’t really make it cheaper.

Back to what we do know - we do know total payments on leases from the club in the last set of accounts - how much of the £535k was on the Ricoh rent? I’d assume around 60%?

 

[shmmeee]

You are absolutely correct of course that the accuracy of any figures in the public domain is unknown and could well be miles off. I’m curious though, are you saying that you know the figure to be wrong or are you simply pointing out that nobody actually knows?

He doesn’t fucking know. He’s just in full on defence force mode because someone asked a question.

 

[Grendel]

You have no idea who I am or who I might know.

If you'd read the thread you'd already have known:

"I have links with the club that go back decades and that are highly credible. I also know someone who formerly worked for the club and is a well known Walter Mitty who delights in telling tall tales."

Just because a bunch of provocateurs embark upon a course of misinformation doesn't make that misinformation true.

Come back when you've got copies of the relevant contracts, otherwise get lost.

Are you Martin Singleton?