'SISU out' demonstrations (9 Viewers)

[skyblueinBaku]

I think that those advocating a 'SISU out' demonstration at the opening match of the season have their hearts in the right place, but are misguided. Better would be a 'Hoff in' demonstration. A 'SISU out' demo would generate anger and frustration, whereas a 'Hoff in' demo would be far more upbeat and generate a positive vibe. It seems to me that we are heading for a siege mentality season. If that is the case, then we need all the positives we can get. A positive vibe from any demonstration will communicate itself to our team on the pitch and help them; a negative vibe will have the opposite effect.

What do you think?

 

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[ajsccfc]

While I feel pretty much all protests and demonstrations are futile as it's not a democracy, I really like your philosophy of support over detraction.

 

[Houchens Head]

Why demonstrate at all? SISU won't take any notice of the fans. They never have!

 

[Dan Griffin]

SISU probably won't even see the flags etc as I doubt they even turn up at games.. :/

 

[Tonylinc]

SISU probably won't even see the flags etc as I doubt they even turn up at games.. :/

Sad but probably true!

 

[Nick]

SISU probably won't even see the flags etc as I doubt they even turn up at games.. :/

Exactly, they won't care about a flag or a sign.

It would need something big, an empty ground, no season ticket or shirt sales, the WHOLE crowd to sit in after a game not just Jim and his dog!

 

[Platt_The_Donkey]

But something needs to be done, take a leaf out of Liverpool supporters book, who marched, protested, campaigned until the Yanky regime were removed from power, why should we sit still and be treated like peasants?

a simple chant of.... SISU OUT, HOFFMAN IN! would get the message accross. :blue:

 

[Puck]

If you want to demonstrate then do it here.

11-12 Hanover Street London, W1S 1YQ

Not that it will do any good as I have no doubt that SISU already rue the day they met Ranson and heard of CCFC

 

[ajsccfc]

The Liverpool protests were ineffectual. Marching from a pub they were in anyway to a ground they'd have attended anyway. It's like claiming you're breathing for a cause.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Of course a protest is futile. But you have to do something. Like most things in life I'm taking a serious approach whilst seeing the funny side, and keeping my tongue wedged fully in my cheek. I'm not "protesting" so much as making it clear how I feel. Sure, no-one from SISU will be there. But a few "SISU OUT" chants will at least make the match reports, even if they are only in the CT, The Nonleague Paper, and the Mercury if we're lucky. I'd quite like the people tuning into CWR to hear it in the background as Geoff files his reports between Eurythmics and Dire Straits songs..

I agree about the positive aspect..so seeing as my sign is 2 sided, I'll have "HOFF IN" on the back to balance out the "SISU OUT" on the front

 

[brinner]

the only way to really do something is to take ur season tickets back and not go to the home games, im not giving sisu any more of my money so am biting the bullet and not renewing my season ticket, 1st time since 92/93 season ive not had a season ticket, the second they are out of the club i wil be straight in the ticket office to get 1.

as many ppl as poss need to take their tickets back, it may well hurt the club in the short term but will without doubt benefit it in the long term, they will bleed this club dry until they no longer own it the sooner the parasites are gone the better.

 

[CovScott88]

Exactly, they won't care about a flag or a sign.

It would need something big, an empty ground, no season ticket or shirt sales, the WHOLE crowd to sit in after a game not just Jim and his dog!

Jim and his dog?! That's harsh, i'm sure his wife is a lovely person on the inside.

 

[chiefdave]

to be effective the best thing to do would be to have a demo outside the ground and then not go in to the game. the slide in attendances last season seemed to add about £2m a year to the losses, a few games with very low attendance should get the message across.

 

[SkyBluePryce]

low attendances? thats what we specialise in . However the 1st game of the season will probably attract 24k+ in my opinion

 

[ashbyjan]

Protests will mean nothing to these people - the only thing they understand (badly it seems) is cold hard cash. No more season tickets should be purchased, nothing from the club shop, all sponsors and advertisers should be urged not to renew and there should be a total boycott of the first home game of the season but full attendance for away game. People who have already purchased tickets may find it difficult to return them for a refund, especially those bought on the instalments plan. With holding money from the club may well cause some short term problems but that is what we want as it might just tip SISU into sodding off and giving someone else a chance of rescuing us before its too late. Whilst they have been totally toothless in the past maybe this is something the Sky Blue Trust could coordinate - or would that be a bit too proactive for them. SISU are slowly killing this club and the quicker they get out the better - don't know if Hoff will be any better but he surely cannot be any worse.

 

[pusbccfc]

I think if we demonstrate outside the ground it adds a hell of a lot of police costs on top, I remember last year there was a rumour of one and they had to call in 100 extra police and they weren't happy about the cost of it.

 

[oldskyblue58]

admire the sentiment, and if people choose to demonstrate in any way they see fit thats fine by me. You know damn well you wont get 15000 + to do it

Just be aware of the possible consequences of reducing the clubs income. We are already hovering around administration...... we reduce the one thing we need above all else - income (the costs will remain) ...... SISU clearly are reluctant to keep funding .... there is no deal agreeable......... we go into administration......... SISU i think may well be classed as a football debt and have priority along with players to get paid....... SISU gone but they are in no worse position than currently offered........... GH might not be the administrators preferred buyer ........ we get docked at least 10 points ........ almost certainly relegated .......... lower crowds poorer football ...........

Protest but dont take the support away from the team ! You arent paying money to SISU because what we all pay isnt enough to pay all the bills in fact on the last accounts it didnt even pay all the wages.

 

[ashbyjan]

The problem is OSB that SISU are slowly bleeding the club dry, they have sold or mortgaged all the assets and the only next logical step is the sale of key players. All that cutting off their income will do is either make them take up Hoffmans offer quicker or get us into admin quicker which is where we are heading anyway. I believe what they are currently trying to do is maximise any possible income in the short term and sucking it out of the club before either giving in or goign into admin. All that with holding money will do is bring the inevitable to a head quicker and then we have a season to recover rather than going into admin in Dec when there will be little time to recover.

 

[oldskyblue58]

To be honest jan I dont think SISU are bleeding the club dry as you say, but they are refusing to be a bottomless pit of funding. I have a feeling that they are for once taking a risk, and it is a big one

They have had to give undertakings that in one way or another there will be funding in place to see us through the season. Those undertakings were given to the League and the auditors. They would have had to prove to both that this was possible and available. That is why I dont think they feel as pressured to go as the CT would have us think - quite clearly the CT back GH and it suits them to put a spin of financial melt down on SISU

I reckon that they have taken the risk on cutting the wages to a level that reduces losses significantly or perhaps breaks us even for the financial year to 31/05/12 knowing that next year ALL clubs have to do that. They are trying to get ahead of the game knowing that will put them in a far better place this time next year. Next year there are going to be a lot of good players looking for deals that clubs wont be able to make. They are gambling that AT can get the team at least holding its own in the division with pretty much the squad we have and not get relegated. Yes that might involve a player sale (we will need to sell players at a profit for the foreseeable future - its a fact of life) but the aim is to reduce this years losses significantly. At which point this time next year given that all teams have to comply next year things look rosier and they have a far more saleable club. Look at the savings they have made on the wage bill this last 12 months I am betting losing Doyle, Carsley, Westwood, King & Gunnarsson has saved a tidy sum already, there are others that have left and they have been replaced by players stepping up from the youth team more savings

Yes they have had to secure loans on assets, sell off the likes of Prozone (not a core business but a profitable one with the main man RR gone), but do you think GH might not have to do the same - his scheme relies on replacing debt with debt and discounting the SISU debt which actually costs nothing in terms of interest each year but would improve the balance sheet if removed. The figures are vague about how much would be spent on new players - but even so CCFC will have to comply with the new rules under SISU or GH he will have the same problem to deal with.

It could easily be that they ride out this particular storm, and if we say won both our first two league games then things begin to look brighter for the fans. Wont stop the fans wanting SISU out but will take the heat off.

Dont get me wrong I never wanted SISU but I think sometimes we take things portrayed by opposing parties too literally and at face value. I dont get the impression that SISU are paniced by any of this or that if the team starts well that the vast majority of fans will want to protest let alone take back the season tickets

We could be heading for administration, I dont know, but I do think the cold calculations have been done by SISU and they are hoping to pull it off

 

[Godiva]

The problem is OSB that SISU are slowly bleeding the club dry, they have sold or mortgaged all the assets and the only next logical step is the sale of key players. All that cutting off their income will do is either make them take up Hoffmans offer quicker or get us into admin quicker which is where we are heading anyway. I believe what they are currently trying to do is maximise any possible income in the short term and sucking it out of the club before either giving in or goign into admin. All that with holding money will do is bring the inevitable to a head quicker and then we have a season to recover rather than going into admin in Dec when there will be little time to recover.

I really wish you would actually READ what OSB spend a lot of energy writing!
SISU is NOT asset-stripping the club, they are actively funding the running costs.
They have no intention of accepting the current GH bid as they will stand to lose control of their loans. Any deal that does not clear the SISU owned loans in full or close enough will be turned down.
The club has not sold a single player since the new board - they have signed 2.

What if you are wrong? What if SISU are actually ready to keep funding the cash deficit as they seek new co-owners and a way to buy the stadium?
Do you think the manager, the players the backroom staff are all immune to the negativity a protest will inflict?

What you hope to achive won't happen - with or without fans protesting their heart out.
If you already think SISU has no love or emotion for the club, why would they give a s*** what the fans think?

 

[ashbyjan]

They are not funding the club - they are arranging funding based on its assets. SISU are not paying money into the club - they are borrowing against the clubs assets to fund their own failing business. What will happen when they run out of assets to borrow against? We are told they raised a Million against season ticket sales and league payments - so thats two months covered, then what? What are the 1/2 million mnthly losses actually made up off? Is it simply wages, VAT, PAYE and rental? Or is it payments on their own loans to the club - ie they are borrowing against the clubs asssets to pay themselves.
Maybe if SISU actually had the balls to stand up and say they actually have a strategy it would be a start. Are they are simply going to slash the wage bill to the bone (except their own salaries of course) play a sub par team of kids and journeymen hoping to stay in the league and then next year the playing field will be all lovely and level. If thats their strategy then it is totally flawed - as Man City have shown income can come in many forms and the rich will always be rich and the paupers like us will always be paupers.
They are not asset stripping as there are few assets to strip but they are bleeding the club by not investing enough to turn it around - its like simply paying the minimum amount off on your credit card and continuing to spend and wondering why you are sinking further and further into debt. They are presiding over a slow and painful death of a football club - they have made a bad investment and can continue to preside over a twitching corpse or admit they got it totally wrong, cut their losses and do a deal with Hoffman. Hoffman is no fool and he knows just how desperate they are or will soon be when there is nothing left to borrow against and they would actually have to put some of their own money in - he is in a strong position and will play the waiting game. Not ideal but I am sure he will out wait SISU as long as his potential investors don't get too bored.

 

[ashbyjan]

Also I certainly don't think that SISU give a flying F**k about the supporters and any protest will be futile - the only thing they would understand would be a withdrawl of income - ie lack of gate receipts, programme sales, merchandising sales etc. Yes it may harm the club short term but if it forces them out then it would be worth it.

I am sure they are scouring the globe looking for investors and have been for three years - so far they haven't found a sole willing to back them or invest on their terms - within a couple of months Hoffman has found investors willing to invest. How long do we cling to the notion that someone os going to ride in from the East and write of all their debts, give them millions as a reward for failure and send them on their merry way - not ever going to happen and they have to realize that they will take a loss but better now then when its too late.

 

[pusbccfc]

I think we should all not buy the programme (not that I buy it anyway) or merchandise because I think ticket sales are needed to get behind the team, if suddenly only 6000 turned up what would the players think, they would be on a right downer

 

[Nick]

I think we should all not buy the programme (not that I buy it anyway) or merchandise because I think ticket sales are needed to get behind the team, if suddenly only 6000 turned up what would the players think, they would be on a right downer

Probably the same as when we play in the League Cup or something.

 

[pusbccfc]

Probably the same as when we play in the League Cup or something.

Saying that, we did beat palace in front of 7000 city fans, ahaa

 

[oldskyblue58]

Only info available is accounts to 31/05/10 so not up to date but no one aside from the Board has the latest figures.

Assuming things run in much the same way to answer your queries

The £24m loans from the private equity funds managed are not according to the accounts secured and no interest is charged

There is nothing in the last accounts that says SISU have taken anything out of the business

The funding against season tickets isnt unusual - they have received income up front from the finance company they use to gather the payments made by direct debit, if a fan defaults then CCFC have to repay the finance company the amount defaulted - that makes the arrangement technically a loan. I am betting it has been done the last couple of seasons just like that and we are still here. If they borrowed against the league pot then we are under a League transfer embargo now (see section 4 of Football League rules). But it all makes well timed news when GH's group wants to take over doesnt it

The losses 2010- download a copy of the financials to get the details but summary is Income £9.3m Wages £10.3m Overheads £3.4m Amortisation of player contracts £2.1m Total loss £6.5m I wouldnt expect 2011 figures to be any better so £500k pm +

2010 showed interest paid of £0.3m mainly to RR's company none to SISU

2010 accounts showed loans from the SISU private equity funds grew by £700k

Salaries of directors have to be disclosed in the accounts whether paid direct or a third party or to a related party for any services provided by law with a duty of the auditors to disclose if it isnt done - last accounts there were none

They have already slashed the payroll - dont see much sign of any more new players do you ? Why would anyone keep pouring money into a black hole unless you own oil wells in the desert and it really is just a play thing. Man City is the exception not the rule

So far I havent seen much from GH's proposal that is going to radically change things other than it takes SISU out. He will still have the same problems and all the debts that remain, he will still have to match costs to income, and he wont view the funding of the club as a bottomless pit. We may well have to pay interest on the funds introduced instead - something we dont do now - but that is purely supposition

There are far too many assumptions made by us the fans and reporters that are merely hope supposition and even make believe. As yet the situation is SISU dont want to consider what has been proposed - a single sheet (signed or not) does not constitute a detailed offer only a proposal. GH and his backers have withdrawn their proposal. So there is no deal to be done. Like I said SISU may have the means to continue, there is no evidence that they can't. Arranging finance on business assets is not such evidence many businesses do exactly that - default on those arrangements would be

The interpretation I gave is an alternative scenario, I like to keep an open mind as to the alternatives just in case things are not quite what they seem.......... and lets face it they rarely are at CCFC so why should this be different

And no they dont care first and foremost for the fans .... their responsibility is to their investors. This isnt a hobby it is a multi million pound business - we like to see it as our club, emotionally it is but the reality is SISU own it to do with it as they see fit. I dont like it but that is the harsh truth

 

[Covstu]

Protests are futile in the main, look at the teachers strikes it wasnt the actual protests themselves it was the impact this had on the country and the schools that really does the damage. The only way to make a clear point is to not go to the game, however i do not advocate this!!

 

[JHarding1987]

I had a dream last night and I awoke with a start.
First game of the season, Juke, Sammy & Craine had been sold. Incester were winning :-(.
Then we Cov fans took action and invaded the pitch during the match. We were unmovable with SISU OUT chants and for once a SISU board member was in attendance, possibly for the first time ever suddenly realised what they were up against and to appease the fans immediately sold to the Hoff after a few phone calls.
As for the match it was abandoned, but we were awarded 3 points for basically not being inbred like our red-neck friends up the M69!!
Seriously though, my thoughts were of a pitch invasion. Not an invasion to cause trouble with the inbreds, but to show SISU how much they are hated.
Unfortuntely I don't think it will happen (the pitch invasion that is) as it would get more coverage than a post match sit in whcih would hardly get any attention, whereas an invasion during the match would significantly.

 

[oldskyblue58]

its also called incitement to commit a criminal act.......... and would get the club fined money we dont have ........ but hey you do what you think best

 

[Macca]

Fact remains, though i agree with the above, that we need to make a stand of some sort

 

[ajsccfc]

the only way to really do something is to take ur season tickets back and not go to the home games, im not giving sisu any more of my money so am biting the bullet and not renewing my season ticket, 1st time since 92/93 season ive not had a season ticket, the second they are out of the club i wil be straight in the ticket office to get 1.

as many ppl as poss need to take their tickets back, it may well hurt the club in the short term but will without doubt benefit it in the long term, they will bleed this club dry until they no longer own it the sooner the parasites are gone the better.

Reduce one of the few sources of actual revenue, and there is actually a massive mountain of doubt.

 

[Covstu]

Fact remains, though i agree with the above, that we need to make a stand of some sort

Just dont sit down macca!!!

 

[Lets all sing together]

SISU will not place the club into administration because that would mean they would lose all of their investment and Sisu do not like losing money. ( the've already refused to use more of there own money)

so --- If it came down to it SISU would be more likely to liquidate the club and sell the assets to recover their investment ? is this possible ?

Trying to go over all possibles.

 

[Spence CCFC]

I'll start a chant at Nuneaton. That'll solve our problems.

 

[grego_gee]

The Liverpool protests were ineffectual. Marching from a pub they were in anyway to a ground they'd have attended anyway. It's like claiming you're breathing for a cause.
I love that!