Colonel Mustard
New Member
When would you sack him? When would enough be enough?
Simple question for AT supporters... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Colonel Mustard
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Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
If he was allowed to reinforce the side and results didn't improve.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
Let's assume he has to work within the same kind of budget (Turners sold, McDonalds/Gardners brought in). How about then?
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Well I wouldn't sack him, then.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
Exactly what term should I use to classify people wishing for AT to remain in the job? I think 'supporter' is a lot less patronising than terms like 'lovers' and 'fanboys' (which have been aimed at me on more than one occasion...)
kg82
Well-Known Member
Why do you even want to debate it? He's still here. Man up.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
Because I want a deeper understanding of the thinking/reasoning/aims of those I disagree with. Fair enough?
Colonel Mustard
New Member
Debate on a forum? Shocker...
brinner
New Member
thorn proved with a half decent team last seasn he could do a decent job.
the backbone has gone for next to nothing westwood, turner, gunner, king.
had we kept those players we wouldnt be bottom 3 no chance, more like top 10.
90% of us fans predicted relegation at the start of the season so were doing what most thought we would do so whats the suprise?
itl get even worse if sisu are still here flogging whats left in january, so if/when clingan, cranie and juke go in january and we dont win again all season what then? sack thorn or whoevers in charge then?
the problem is sisu and that cancer needs to be eradicated out of our club before anything good happens.
this current squad will struggle to stay up in league 1 next season and thats before the january firesale.
the backbone has gone for next to nothing westwood, turner, gunner, king.
had we kept those players we wouldnt be bottom 3 no chance, more like top 10.
90% of us fans predicted relegation at the start of the season so were doing what most thought we would do so whats the suprise?
itl get even worse if sisu are still here flogging whats left in january, so if/when clingan, cranie and juke go in january and we dont win again all season what then? sack thorn or whoevers in charge then?
the problem is sisu and that cancer needs to be eradicated out of our club before anything good happens.
this current squad will struggle to stay up in league 1 next season and thats before the january firesale.
kg82
Well-Known Member
Use the 3000 other threads to debate it, not a new one. I'm sick and tired of coming onto the forum and each time seeing "Thorn this, Thorn that...." and then some question that the op has worded so that people will think they're starting a meaningful debate but is actually full of condescending egotism.
skyblueben83
New Member
It's worth remembering that Ken Delieu has said to the Observer that he is involved with playing strategy, team selection and so on.
Until we get rid of this clown then why sack the manager?? Andy Thorn is doing the job with he's hands very much tied. What other self respecting manager would come in and work under these conditions?? What manager are SISU going to pay for?
Ken Delieu said "I will continue to give the young lads a chance in the first team whilst I am here"
I agree with that to some extent, we should be bringing youth through but playing 17/18 year olds week after week will fail because for a start they aren't fully developed physically. Stamina and mental stamina aren't fully developed until early 20's so our young lads are will tire as the game goes on. Ring any bells?? (Sloppy second half goals? Goals conceded in last minute?)
Andy Thorn is trying to play the game in the right way and is getting a lot out of the younger lads. He is doing well with a team full of league 1 players. Bell, Baker, Hussey, Platt are league 1 quality. Thomas, Bigirama, Christie are young and will stuggle to give 100% for 90 mins week after week. So that's the scale of the problem at the club and under the circumstances I'm struggling to put the blame at Thorns feet. I think he has done well to get 13 points!!
No other manager we could afford to bring in could do better with the squad we have.
Back Thorn, Back the lads and Fuck off SISU and deluded Delieu!!
Until we get rid of this clown then why sack the manager?? Andy Thorn is doing the job with he's hands very much tied. What other self respecting manager would come in and work under these conditions?? What manager are SISU going to pay for?
Ken Delieu said "I will continue to give the young lads a chance in the first team whilst I am here"
I agree with that to some extent, we should be bringing youth through but playing 17/18 year olds week after week will fail because for a start they aren't fully developed physically. Stamina and mental stamina aren't fully developed until early 20's so our young lads are will tire as the game goes on. Ring any bells?? (Sloppy second half goals? Goals conceded in last minute?)
Andy Thorn is trying to play the game in the right way and is getting a lot out of the younger lads. He is doing well with a team full of league 1 players. Bell, Baker, Hussey, Platt are league 1 quality. Thomas, Bigirama, Christie are young and will stuggle to give 100% for 90 mins week after week. So that's the scale of the problem at the club and under the circumstances I'm struggling to put the blame at Thorns feet. I think he has done well to get 13 points!!
No other manager we could afford to bring in could do better with the squad we have.
Back Thorn, Back the lads and Fuck off SISU and deluded Delieu!!
Colonel Mustard
New Member
1. I've barely started any threads.
2. Please point out the condescending egotism in this thread.
I'm just trying to engage in a more clarified debate. Nonleagueherewecome and myself pretty much disagree on everything, but at least he entered the thread in the right spirit. If we're talking about egotism, then surely it comes from the fellow who has nothing to contribute but insults.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
skyblueben83, brinner: would both of you then keep on AT indefinitely, regardless of results?
kg82
Well-Known Member
1. You may not start many threads, you're just the one that copped the flack because, as I said, I am tired of seeing numerous different threads everyday on the same subject.
2. The condescension comes from the sentence "when would enough be enough", as if people are going to turn around and say "oh, well, it would be on this date and then I'll turn round and say you were right all along colonel".
3. I'm not sure how insulting anybody makes me an egotist. Angry, fed up, annoyed... yeah, but certainly not an ego.
Thorn's in, he will be for a while, that's my enlightening view.
2. The condescension comes from the sentence "when would enough be enough", as if people are going to turn around and say "oh, well, it would be on this date and then I'll turn round and say you were right all along colonel".
3. I'm not sure how insulting anybody makes me an egotist. Angry, fed up, annoyed... yeah, but certainly not an ego.
Thorn's in, he will be for a while, that's my enlightening view.
brinner
New Member
yes, unless he lost the dressing room like aidy did last season, then he would have to go.
but as far as im aware that isnt the case and the players are fully behind him.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
That's the nature of a forum. I'm not exactly crazy about the thousands of SISU threads, but...it's an open forum.
There is nothing condescending about the question. Look, I've been following CCFC for 25 years and in that time I have never seen this kind of unconditional support for a manager. I have not and will not slate anyone for supporting AT, but what I am trying to ascertain is whether this section of fans has any kind of performance expectation of him.
Ta.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
What do you think of the argument that says that a supportive dressing room isn't always a good thing, as in they may see their manager as a soft touch and are resistant to any change? Also, considering the strenuousness seen during the West Ham match, would you say that the team isn't giving maximum effort most games in comparison?
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brinner
New Member
keep goin over the same things.
said last week every city team ive seen since ive been going has been the same, raise their game against the "big" sides, weve always done it and more than likely always will.
we need a takeover with some investment in to the team and the fans need to respond and get the ricoh rocking, maybe then we will see a bit of a diffrence.
cloughie
Well-Known Member
what do you say
Colonel Mustard
New Member
I'm dubious about a player-supported manager necessarily being a good thing - I certainly wouldn't use it as a reason to keep a manager on. And maximum effort every game should be the number one qualification for a good manager IMO.
I follow this forum as well as others on a regular basis and although I'm neither pro nor anti Thorn one thing that strikes me is the logic or non logic of the "Thorn Out" detractors which borders on that of a witch hunt.
Considering the fact that we are, apparently still paying off 2 previous managers, we are skint, unable to improve the squad and have no option but to play youth team players, I do not seriously see any alternative to Thorn.
It's all very well people screaming "Thorn Out" but I've yet to see anyone suggest a credible and affordable alternative.
Can the OP ?
Considering the fact that we are, apparently still paying off 2 previous managers, we are skint, unable to improve the squad and have no option but to play youth team players, I do not seriously see any alternative to Thorn.
It's all very well people screaming "Thorn Out" but I've yet to see anyone suggest a credible and affordable alternative.
Can the OP ?
Colonel Mustard
New Member
Sure. I'd be willing to try Gregor Rioch, who has had considerable success with the academy, and managed and nurtured many of the young lads in the squad. He's already on the club payroll, so money shouldn't be an issue. Even Carsley if not Rioch.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
Why isn't Rioch credible? If anything, he's the personification of a credible candidate - no financial issues, existing relationships with the players, a track record of success in coaching, and more managerial experience than Thorn ever had.
If he fails, then like any manager he must be changed.
Ad nauseum
Colonel Mustard
New Member
Like pretty much every other club in the history of football. It's not wrong to sack a failing manager.
Now I get your theory.
Your logic.
We are skint.
So we go through everyone on the payroll until even the ballboys, or girls, have had a go.
Excellent.
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
Again there is too much conjecture and not enough reality.
Skint means what exactly? I bet your bottom dollar we would find cash to employ an out of work manager with better experience than AT.
That's the reality....it's not a game of monopoly, it's the real world. If we don't it will cost us much more if relegated.
Skint means what exactly? I bet your bottom dollar we would find cash to employ an out of work manager with better experience than AT.
That's the reality....it's not a game of monopoly, it's the real world. If we don't it will cost us much more if relegated.
skyblueben83
New Member
HaHa yes results are important but always have to be put into context. Leicester sacked Ericksson and they were doing better than us?? Weird ey?
So it's not all about results, it's about players Thorn has available?, money he's spent?,Players he's lost?, how much money he's on?, who can come in to replace him? How much we will they cost?
It's the equivalent of taking command of the Titanic after it hit the iceberg, that's the size of the job.
Lord_Nampil
Well-Known Member
You maybe correct but if you don't have a look at the possibility your writing a season off at December??? Wheres the fight gone we had under managers in days gone buy in the top flight???
