School Protests

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2013
13,794
11,939
313
Cool cool. So when they start saying don’t teach about homosexuality or tell kids they’re going to hell we shouldn’t want to die on that hill either?

Religious groups see schools as recruitment grounds, that’s why many buy up academies. We need to get reap about that and be clear what’s appropriate to teach and which protests can be ignored or they’ll take the full mile and be banning teaching of evolution before you know it.
Bravo
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2013
25,025
15,343
413
I say it with a heavy heart knowing my Christian faith is bang to rights in terms of history and for many today still feeling the judgment from religious leaders for being gay or getting divorced or terminating a pregnancy. Let’s talk and understand not offend, shout and aggressively impose are beliefs on others
Most people nowadays are quite happy to live and let live. It's a shame the nutters have to spoil it for everybody else...
 
  • Like
Reactions: CCFCSteve and Nick

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2011
31,003
22,334
313
Coventry, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
I always try and imagine how much further forward the human race would be if not for religion...my guess , alot further
I used to think this. But if we’re honest there’s a fundamental flaw in a given percentage of humans that makes them susceptible to nonsense and if it’s not religion it’ll be auras or horoscopes or conspiracy theories or just weird allegiance to a bit of cloth or a trade deal.

Not sure how you fix that. We’re very good at ripping down old structures that aren’t perfect but do still serve some purpose and not replacing them with anything. Church gives a lot of people meaning and social structure in their life, just like mass employment did, just like traditional family structures did. And we seem very quick to say “this does some seriously bad things burn it all down” before we’ve thought at all about what to replace it with.

Or maybe I’m just hitting 40 🤔
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2011
27,550
5,893
263
Would be interesting to see how many people stood outside the school follow their faith to the letter anyway. The irony is that a fair few of them would probably smoke, drink, gamble, have a tattoo etc.

I am sure you could go through a long list of things not allowed by Islam and find they aren't actually following it properly but kick off when others don't.
Listen to music?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2012
20,527
8,632
313
I always try and imagine how much further forward the human race would be if not for religion...my guess , alot further
Faith won’t hold back progress. Dogmatic religion that is unwilling to evolve has and will and will always do so. It’s a fundamental human flaw that includes more than just religion but I hear you brother loud and clear as would Galileo and Darwin to name a couple of faith filled scientists who wanted to understand more about the world for everyone
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2012
20,527
8,632
313
I used to think this. But if we’re honest there’s a fundamental flaw in a given percentage of humans that makes them susceptible to nonsense and if it’s not religion it’ll be auras or horoscopes or conspiracy theories or just weird allegiance to a bit of cloth or a trade deal.

Not sure how you fix that. We’re very good at ripping down old structures that aren’t perfect but do still serve some purpose and not replacing them with anything. Church gives a lot of people meaning and social structure in their life, just like mass employment did, just like traditional family structures did. And we seem very quick to say “this does some seriously bad things burn it all down” before we’ve thought at all about what to replace it with.

Or maybe I’m just hitting 40 🤔
It’s called understanding and wisdom shmmee. It shows a willingness to accept what we can’t change and change what we can
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2012
4,704
5,271
263
here
Faith won’t hold back progress. Dogmatic religion that is unwilling to evolve has and will and will always do so. It’s a fundamental human flaw that includes more than just religion but I hear you brother loud and clear as would Galileo and Darwin to name a couple of faith filled scientists who wanted to understand more about the world for everyone
Preach!

....and I say that as a nailed-on atheist......assuming the phrase "nailed-on" isn't too offensive to anyone....
 

dubed

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2012
3,177
1,547
213
I don't know what it's like in other schools, but an RE teacher I used to know, it was (nowadays) as much about showing the differing faiths in the world (including agnosticism/atheism) as championing one / many faith(s). That seems reasonable to me.
This is the problem - labeling anyone who holds a rational position as having a position based on a belief. Rationality is a thought process, not a belief 'system', whereas atheism is a belief that there is no God.

Labeling the application of that rationality as a stance towards the possible existence of a supernatural being as a belief is then used to provide credibility to the possibility of the belief system it is said to oppose.

It is not for me to produce or engage in a belief system that there is no God (atheism), any more than I should be required to produce or engage in a belief system that disapproves that our leaders are shape-shifting lizards.

Rather, it is for those who have imaginary fathers and mothers (or shape-shifting lizards) to prove that they exist. Until such time (which is likely to be never), why should a belief system on a particular subject such as the existence of a supernatural being be the subject on the school curriculum at all?
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2012
20,527
8,632
313
Preach!

....and I say that as a nailed-on atheist......assuming the phrase "nailed-on" isn't too offensive to anyone....
Might be reflective as I’m at a dear friends funeral who died too soon of a heart attack following Covid wrecking her lungs.
Quite sad
 
  • Like
Reactions: wingy

SBT

Well-Known Member
Sep 14, 2012
1,445
1,383
163
Cool cool. So when they start saying don’t teach about homosexuality or tell kids they’re going to hell we shouldn’t want to die on that hill either?

Religious groups see schools as recruitment grounds, that’s why many buy up academies. We need to get reap about that and be clear what’s appropriate to teach and which protests can be ignored or they’ll take the full mile and be banning teaching of evolution before you know it.
I don't share your view that this small group of fanatics is suddenly going to start dictating curriculum policy. I do think that if teachers are a bit more discerning about how they handle culturally sensitive stuff, then you can easily remove any reason for these guys to show up in the first place, and I don't think that's a cost which is too much to bear.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hertsccfc

rob9872

Well-Known Member
Mar 21, 2011
10,007
5,049
313
It is really funny seeing what some people think we do and don’t teach in school. Thanks to Michael Gove we have to teach ‘British values’ in PSHE and can no longer teach American texts in GCSE English. But yes we do also teach not to behead someone over a religious disagreement.
Although on here at 11.39 to post this and liked by a bunch of other teachers. I know you guys have long holidays, but this taking the piss now. .... and yes I know you have your 'marking' and lesson planning to do ....


(has anyone got a tin hat I can borrow for a couple of hours please? :) )
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2012
7,086
4,540
213
Although on here at 11.39 to post this and liked by a bunch of other teachers. I know you guys have long holidays, but this taking the piss now. .... and yes I know you have your 'marking' and lesson planning to do ....


(has anyone got a tin hat I can borrow for a couple of hours please? :) )
I’m moving house today.... been packed up for 3 hours now and waiting for the shite solicitors to get themselves together and sort it!
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
Mar 21, 2011
10,007
5,049
313
I’m moving house today.... been packed up for 3 hours now and waiting for the shite solicitors to get themselves together and sort it!
Can't you do it out of term time? I hope there's a fine of £200 for missing school ;-)
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2012
28,102
10,853
263
Coventry
Although on here at 11.39 to post this and liked by a bunch of other teachers. I know you guys have long holidays, but this taking the piss now. .... and yes I know you have your 'marking' and lesson planning to do ....


(has anyone got a tin hat I can borrow for a couple of hours please? :) )
It’s called a ‘free period’.
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2012
4,704
5,271
263
here
Ha Ha...I know you gents are only baiting the teachers for a bit of a giggle, but it does always stagger me how much people post on here.

I often hate myself for wasting my valuable time on here chatting shite, but I'm self employed so i've only got myself to blame.....

.....and I'm a positive minnow in terms of post count in comparison....

A lot of you must have some good dirt on your bosses.......quite frankly, I'd sack the lot of yous.

Right.....its beer o'clock....i'm off. Happy Friday folks.
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2013
25,025
15,343
413
This is the problem - labeling anyone who holds a rational position as having a position based on a belief. Rationality is a thought process, not a belief 'system', whereas atheism is a belief that there is no God.

Labeling the application of that rationality as a stance towards the possible existence of a supernatural being as a belief is then used to provide credibility to the possibility of the belief system it is said to oppose.

It is not for me to produce or engage in a belief system that there is no God (atheism), any more than I should be required to produce or engage in a belief system that disapproves that our leaders are shape-shifting lizards.

Rather, it is for those who have imaginary fathers and mothers (or shape-shifting lizards) to prove that they exist. Until such time (which is likely to be never), why should a belief system on a particular subject such as the existence of a supernatural being be the subject on the school curriculum at all?
Call it cultural studies if you will, but it's learning about the ociety we live in.
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2013
25,025
15,343
413
I used to think this. But if we’re honest there’s a fundamental flaw in a given percentage of humans that makes them susceptible to nonsense and if it’s not religion it’ll be auras or horoscopes or conspiracy theories or just weird allegiance to a bit of cloth or a trade deal.

Not sure how you fix that. We’re very good at ripping down old structures that aren’t perfect but do still serve some purpose and not replacing them with anything. Church gives a lot of people meaning and social structure in their life, just like mass employment did, just like traditional family structures did. And we seem very quick to say “this does some seriously bad things burn it all down” before we’ve thought at all about what to replace it with.

Or maybe I’m just hitting 40 🤔
People use religion for power, control, validation. The people who do that would use something else, with no religion.
 

dubed

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2012
3,177
1,547
213
I'm cool with that if religion were just a part of cultural studies, along with all other aspects of life. But of course, that's not the case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Skybluefaz

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2011
6,279
5,316
363
Coventry

Finally some common sense middle aged white male protestors representing. Quite what they represent I'll leave to you.

Note they aren't getting tasered despite being male and not BLM protestors.
 

Nick

Administrator
Feb 25, 2008
116,474
38,191
1,063
Coventry
Some sentence that, champions free speech at the start and calls for protestors to be fined at the end!
It's not a fine for the speech though is it?

It's like me saying I'm going to protest against speed cameras by driving through them at 150mph.

It's not taking away my freedom of speech if I get a ban.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
24,106
26,278
313
It's not a fine for the speech though is it?

It's like me saying I'm going to protest against speed cameras by driving through them at 150mph.

It's not taking away my freedom of speech if I get a ban.
the right to free speech and the right to peaceful protest are all part of the same basic rights we have in this country.
They're trying to take away our right to peaceful protest, free speech will be next if we're not careful.

The example you've given about driving at 150mph makes no sense, it's illegal to do that, it's not illegal to peacefully protest, (yet).
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
9,622
6,113
213
IMO RE should be used to teach values such as tolerance, respect and friendship for example. It can be done without having to go into the finer detail of any particular religion.
But as long as people follow religions to have tolerance and respect you need to understand those different belief systems.

IMO what RE should be far more able to do is ask the question "why might this also not be true? Why do some people believe this and call the others nonsense, yet another person will do the exact opposite? Why are Roman/Norse/Greek/Incan/Mayan beliefs now just seen as mythical tales rather than the religions that dominated their region?"

History teaches you to look carefully at and question the source. Do they have a particular agenda or is there some otheer reason they may have written this i.e coercion/fear/reward? Are they a first hand account? Science is constantly retested to try and ensure it's as accurate as possible. Of course that too has bias and that needs to be recognised. Religion should be open to the same testing. If it refuses it tends to be because it knows it won't stand up to it.