says it all really! (1 Viewer)

[Gray]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...ubstitution-until-89th-minute-92746-30259024/



no if your away from home with 10 mins to go and your winning. you shut up shop..make it difficult for the other team to play and bring on a defender to protect your lead...its not brain surgery

 

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[Astute]

.....and you let the other team throw the kitchen sink at you for 10 mins plus injury time. The other team comes back and wins........then the comments are "why did AT go defensive with 10 mins to go when we were winning? Would have won if we would have kept it as it was"

 

[torchomatic]

I have to agree, he can't win either way:

We're winning, he makes subs - "what did he do that for, why change a winning team?"
We're winning, he doesn't make subs - "why didn't he make substitutions, everyone could see we needed to."

To be honest, it's got to the point for me that I wish SISU would put another manager in as I'm sick of reading the same thing after every defeat. Personally, I don't think it would make much difference, but at least then I could start moaning!

.....and you let the other team throw the kitchen sink at you for 10 mins plus injury time. The other team comes back and wins........then the comments are "why did AT go defensive with 10 mins to go when we were winning? Would have won if we would have kept it as it was"

 

[Stevec189]

We had made the substitution for the second goal and the guy was still left unmarked in the box so did it really make a difference? The right side of our defence let us down it seems to me (hard to say since was not there) and in my opinion Keogh is at fault fo poor positioning. I know that makes me a heretic to some but it is my opinion. PUSB

 

[SkyBlueScottie]

Agreed Torchy, Middlesboro was a game we could close down and he did. Blackpool was more difficult.

 

[CUS Wyken]

Astute or Torch did you go?

I did and it was clear for anyone there that certain players were knackered. Not about going defensive. Its about bringing fresh legs on.

Blackpool used all 3 subs with 20 mins to go. We decided to use our first once it went 1-1 and then took a striker off for a defender? What was his thinking for that? Take the draw? Very strange.

Now we haer HH was injured yet Thorn still played him and who was at fault for the first goal. HH...

 

[stupot07]

Torchy I completely agree - damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Gray]

I have to agree, he can't win either way:

We're winning, he makes subs - "what did he do that for, why change a winning team?"
We're winning, he doesn't make subs - "why didn't he make substitutions, everyone could see we needed to."

To be honest, it's got to the point for me that I wish SISU would put another manager in as I'm sick of reading the same thing after every defeat. Personally, I don't think it would make much difference, but at least then I could start moaning!

same thing after every defeat because the bloke is tactically inept! not just the blackpool match but time and time again....you see it when teams play us we are on top for 30-45 mins then we get sussed out the other team change it around and get on top of us... we have no plan B

its like the bloke said in the telegraph because everyone hates SISU so much (including me) they are letting Thorn of the hook, any other season 99% of the fans would be calling for him to get the sack

 

[Moff]

I have to agree, he can't win either way:
To be honest, it's got to the point for me that I wish SISU would put another manager in as I'm sick of reading the same thing after every defeat.

You are spot on, he cant win either way, but perhaps you have read the same thing after every defeat as we have had so many this season, far outweighing our 5 wins!

 

[CUS Wyken]

You all make me laugh. EVERYONE in the Cov end could see HH was struggling. Why didn't he take him off?

Everyone round me were saying, they keep attacking HH cause they know he's fucked. Who made a mistake for the first goal? HH... says it all to me.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Point is making the substitutions earlier would have given the team more energy which would have allowed them to defend higher up the pitch and keep the pressure further away from our goal. From what I understand (based on Gallachers radio comments I didnt go) the front two had ran themselves into the ground and were no longer a viable outlet - that meant every time the ball cleared it came straight back. Because of the pressure caused by this we sat further and further back and no longer put pressure on the ball well in midfield this meant we played in our own box and surrendered the pitch to the opposition. It isnt rocket science - you have to be concerned that AT didnt see it and that he thought in the last 10 minutes we were in control. Hell play further up the field and just maybe we might get a second

We allowed Blackpool to ramp up the pressure and it is up to the manager to have tactics or a plan to deal with those situations - if nothing else making substitutions would have broken up the game and given the players a breather. Would it hurt for AT to say he made a mistake and then we all move on? (clearly he thinks he was right)

Putting a sub or two on does not guarantee we wouldnt have lost - but everyone bar AT & co seems to have seen the team had ran out of energy and needed a boost to be able to defend the lead. They had put in a real hard shift and needed help from the manager - it arrived too late. (not the first time this season).

Yes there are the arguements that he cant win either way but thats opinion - think most agree that on the facts of what actually happened it was a mistake not to freshen things up and not to break up the Blackpool rhythm with substitutions sooner and 3 of them

 

[covcity4life]

.....and you let the other team throw the kitchen sink at you for 10 mins plus injury time. The other team comes back and wins........then the comments are "why did AT go defensive with 10 mins to go when we were winning? Would have won if we would have kept it as it was"

we let them pile on the pressure regardless

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

"Stop me if you think that you've heard this one before.."

Bor-ing!

 

[Otis]

Knowl on GMK has been saying the same thing. That it was oh so very clear that subs needed to be made and that there was only going to be one outcome to the game the way things were panning out.

How many of you on this thread actually went to the game? I didn't for sure. If you did then I value your opinion, if you didn't then I am much more inclined to listen to those who actually went to the game. From the remarks of those who went I keep hearing the same things.



Thirdly, with ten minutes to go I said “if Blackpool score it will be created in that square of grass there” pointing to the corner of the penalty area. With six minutes to go I predicted that if we conceded in the next five minutes and the fourth official announced 4 minutes of injury time we were fucked.

We needed to make a change, we needed to stop the flow. Wood was stripped off, Freddie was stripped off. With Blackpool having 5 upfront and M Phillips hugging the touchline and Barry Ferguson floating around supplying both wings the home defence was exposed, if only we could get out. Bang, Herman swung like a drunk golfer, Roman Bednar was in down the right, he pulled the ball back along the goal line and from two/three yards Kevin Phillips equalised.

Thorn reacted, after a superb shot from Clingan had forced a corner, he took off Nimley and Wood was introduced at left back. We went to 541 with Platt as the lone striker. Please Blackpool try and score a winner, I dare you. Oh fuck you did. How can anyone defend balls into the box when there are about 12 players in there? One unexpected bounce and the whole thing caves in.

For the last twenty minutes we invited Blackpool to beat us, it wasn’t a invitation they were going to pass up. It wasn’t bad luck, it was deserved, Holloway decided to try and win the game and he succeeded.

 

[CUS Wyken]

Knowl on GMK has been saying the same thing. That it was oh so very clear that subs needed to be made and that there was only going to be one outcome to the game the way things were panning out.

How many of you on this thread actually went to the game? I didn't for sure. If you did then I value your opinion, if you didn't then I am much inclined to listen to those who actually went to the game. From the remarks of those who went I keep hearing the same things.



Thirdly, with ten minutes to go I said “if Blackpool score it will be created in that square of grass there” pointing to the corner of the penalty area. With six minutes to go I predicted that if we conceded in the next five minutes and the fourth official announced 4 minutes of injury time we were fucked.

We needed to make a change, we needed to stop the flow. Wood was stripped off, Freddie was stripped off. With Blackpool having 5 upfront and M Phillips hugging the touchline and Barry Ferguson floating around supplying both wings the home defence was exposed, if only we could get out. Bang, Herman swung like a drunk golfer, Roman Bednar was in down the right, he pulled the ball back along the goal line and from two/three yards Kevin Phillips equalised.

Thorn reacted, after a superb shot from Clingan had forced a corner, he took off Nimley and Wood was introduced at left back. We went to 541 with Platt as the lone striker. Please Blackpool try and score a winner, I dare you. Oh fuck you did. How can anyone defend balls into the box when there are about 12 players in there? One unexpected bounce and the whole thing caves in.

For the last twenty minutes we invited Blackpool to beat us, it wasn’t a invitation they were going to pass up. It wasn’t bad luck, it was deserved, Holloway decided to try and win the game and he succeeded.

I was there and i concur with the above. If you were there you'd know the players were struggling with energy.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

.....and you let the other team throw the kitchen sink at you for 10 mins plus injury time. The other team comes back and wins........then the comments are "why did AT go defensive with 10 mins to go when we were winning? Would have won if we would have kept it as it was"

An unfortunate comment for three reasons:

1. It implies that people will find flaw with anything AT does, i.e. irrational attacks. That is not true.
2. It uses a hypothetical situation as a defence, rather than attempting to defend the facts.
3. Even if that scenario did play out, you could make a case for AT - that the strikers were knackered, that it was the right thing to try to keep the pressure on in their half.

 

[olderskyblue]

You didn't have to be there though, we've seen it at the Ricoh too.

The struggling with energy is a worry this season. So many times players have looked knackered not long after H/T (and AT has missed it completely and subbed a different player). This needs fixing.

To be fair to AT though, we have had more experience managers who have had the same failing with knowing when to put subs on to change a game.

I would like to see Dave Jones in charge (is he still available?)

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Of course Thorn - with the wondrous advantage of hindsight - should have made the changes that everyone now so clearly knows he should have done......

Well done to everyone who's so damn clever after the event.

However, there is another side to this; they had quality on their bench, in Phillips and Bentner, that we simply cannot match even in our best two or three players. Hence, they had better quality in reserve, then we can command per se. There are times, when this gulf in standard of player will be telling.

Combine the above, with the naivety we can all point at after the event, and there's your perfect storm

 

[lordsummerisle]

Of course Thorn - with the wondrous advantage of hindsight - should have made the changes that everyone now so clearly knows he should have done......

Well done to everyone who's so damn clever after the event.

However, there is another side to this; they had quality on their bench, in Phillips and Bentner, that we simply cannot match even in our best two or three players. Hence, they had better quality in reserve, then we can command per se. There are times, when this gulf in standard of player will be telling.

Combine the above, with the naivety we can all point at after the event, and there's your perfect storm

Sometimes it's not hindsight though, but fairly obvious at the time.

Bit like somebody saying, "With hindsight it possibly wasn't a great idea to let Peter Sutcliffe out unsupervised to a course on DIY usage of hammers being held by the Bradford Fallen Women Institute, but who could have imagined that it could have caused a problem?"

 

[CUS Wyken]

Of course Thorn - with the wondrous advantage of hindsight - should have made the changes that everyone now so clearly knows he should have done......

Well done to everyone who's so damn clever after the event.

However, there is another side to this; they had quality on their bench, in Phillips and Bentner, that we simply cannot match even in our best two or three players. Hence, they had better quality in reserve, then we can command per se. There are times, when this gulf in standard of player will be telling.

Combine the above, with the naivety we can all point at after the event, and there's your perfect storm

Which bit could you not understand? EVERYONE round me tuesday night in the ground were saying with 10-15 mins to go, bring on some fresh legs. If 400 Fans could see tired legs why couldn't Thorn?

 

[Grendel]

The bit where you criticize thorn. The Great Leader is above all that. Probably fishers fault no sub was made.0

 

[Otis]

Yep, from what I hear, it wasn't hindsight. It was what all the City fans there on Tuesday were calling for at the time. The rest of us who didn't go are just guessing.

As many have said before, Thorn is not a manager, he is a scout. If he's not going to get the boot for pity's sake bring someone in to help the bugger out!!

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Which bit could you not understand? EVERYONE round me tuesday night in the ground were saying with 10-15 mins to go, bring on some fresh legs. If 400 Fans could see tired legs why couldn't Thorn?

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending Thorn.

What I am saying through is read back to the matchhday thread. It's 36 pages long. Only one person mentioned changing personnel ahead of losing the goal.

Then, after the result, seemingly everyone knew what he should have done.

It's the retrospective widsom viewed through the kaleidoscope of hindsight I think is a bit cheap

 

[Grendel]

To be fair Gallagher said it during commentary before the first goal.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Yep, from what I hear, it wasn't hindsight. It was what all the City fans there on Tuesday were calling for at the time. The rest of us who didn't go are just guessing.

As many have said before, Thorn is not a manager, he is a scout. If he's not going to get the boot for pity's sake bring someone in to help the bugger out!!

Here-say Otis. I wasn't there myself, but know a few that were, and the vast majority I have spoken to thought we looked in good shape to hold on. Then a mistake leads to the first goal, they push on and get the winner....

After the event, it's easy to say 'everyone know this, everyone said that, etc.'. As per my link above, look at the matchday thread. Not as many people posted about changing the team before the goals, as suddenly knew that would have been the remedy afterwards

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

To be fair Gallagher said it during commentary before the first goal.

Yes - I give you that, he did.

Just as I'm sure you'll give me that, when asked after the game, whether Thorn was culpable, he said that hindsight was a fine thing to use to judge another man's actions

 

[Grendel]

Except the ex pro in the studio..,,

 

[Grendel]

Yes - I give you that, he did.

Just as I'm sure you'll give me that, when asked after the game, whether Thorn was culpable, he said that hindsight was a fine thing to use to judge another man's actions

Yes fair enough. My other post crossed yours by the way.

 

[CUS Wyken]

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending Thorn.

What I am saying through is read back to the matchhday thread. It's 36 pages long. Only one person mentioned changing personnel ahead of losing the goal.

Then, after the result, seemingly everyone knew what he should have done.

It's the retrospective widsom viewed through the kaleidoscope of hindsight I think is a bit cheap

I was there and i could see some players were tiring.. HH been one of them as he was the closest to the fans on our side.

I said Thorn gameplan was bang on and worked a treat however come 80 mins with our backs aginst the wall, a couple of fresh legs should have came on to help. He only decided to make a sub once the equaliser went in and the sub itself was bizarre.

 

[sw88]

I would like to see Dave Jones in charge (is he still available?)

I believe he is. He'd be a good manager to sustain Championship status, but nothing more imo. I think he shown at Cardiff he struggled to get any further. Remember he was given funds, and there was alot of high expectations, especially around the time of the Bellamy deal, and he didnt get much success (hence him getting the boot).

If we could afford him, id like us to get Grayson now hes available. I do believe hes good at bringing youngsters through, and he didnt do that badly with Leeds. I wouldnt mind being 10th in the league and only a few points off the play offs!!

On the other hand, Nilsson is available and Id love to see him back in the dugout, but I know none of these will happen! Especially while we have the muppets in charge like we currently do!