Save our standards - MPs reject amendment

robbiekeane

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May 13, 2016
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Really pissed me off. Genuine question - how can they defend that? Am I missing something?

Struggling to see a non-sinister reason for this and its something that I’m particularly interested in.
 
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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Aug 16, 2018
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They can't defend it. They said they'd defend and uphold standards, then refuse to put it into law.

Difference is for some of us this is no more than we expected. We looked at their track record of what they do compared to what they say and worked it out ages ago they were never going to uphold the standards and would let the US do as they please.

Using previous behaviour to predict future behaviour...
 

robbiekeane

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May 13, 2016
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Difference is for some of us this is no more than we expected. We looked at their track record of what they do compared to what they say and worked it out ages ago they were never going to uphold the standards and would let the US do as they please.

Using previous behaviour to predict future behaviour
Can you not grow up and resist trying to have a dig related to a totally different debate? Boring, and makes this a much less enjoyable place for a discussion.

You’re literally proving my point I was making on the other thread that you’re so blinded by your own bias that you’ve lost the ability to be objective. It’s not a good look
 

clint van damme

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May 3, 2015
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Really pissed me off. Genuine question - how can they defend that? Am I missing something?

Struggling to see a non-sinister reason for this and its something that I’m particularly interested in.
You didn't realise years ago this was going to happen?
Another lie in their manifesto. Another lie that has been repeated ad nauseam by ministers and still people will vote for them.
Large swathes of the British public don't deserve anything better.
 

skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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Really pissed me off. Genuine question - how can they defend that? Am I missing something?

Struggling to see a non-sinister reason for this and its something that I’m particularly interested in.
The short answer is we’re plebs, we gave them a massive majority, they can do WTF they like and they will.
 

Ring Of Steel

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May 22, 2017
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Really pissed me off. Genuine question - how can they defend that? Am I missing something?

Struggling to see a non-sinister reason for this and its something that I’m particularly interested in.
Not being funny, but people were saying this was going to happen ages ago, and now it’s happened. It’s no surprise at all.

They’re liars, to be honest it’s beyond comprehension how you are so blind to this.
 

NorthernWisdom

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Apr 23, 2013
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Can you not grow up and resist trying to have a dig related to a totally different debate? Boring, and makes this a much less enjoyable place for a discussion.

You’re literally proving my point I was making on the other thread that you’re so blinded by your own bias that you’ve lost the ability to be objective. It’s not a good look
There are trends though. The trend for this government is they promise the world, and deliver something very different to what they promised.

And no, it can't be defended. If anything we should be tightening our food standards, not relaxing them. We have the opportunity to do that, and that would give British farmers an advantage if we did.
 

clint van damme

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May 3, 2015
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Can you not grow up and resist trying to have a dig related to a totally different debate? Boring, and makes this a much less enjoyable place for a discussion.

You’re literally proving my point I was making on the other thread that you’re so blinded by your own bias that you’ve lost the ability to be objective. It’s not a good look
There's little to be objective about to be honest. If you can find some positives in the way this mob are running the country I'd be happy to hear them. (Please don't say it would have been worse under Corbyn- purely conjecture).
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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Aug 16, 2018
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Can you not grow up and resist trying to have a dig related to a totally different debate? Boring, and makes this a much less enjoyable place for a discussion.

You’re literally proving my point I was making on the other thread that you’re so blinded by your own bias that you’ve lost the ability to be objective. It’s not a good look
Well don't go writing threads of surprise at something others realised years ago as being blatantly obvious.

This isn't about bias. If it were Labour, or the Lib Dems, or the Greens I'll call them out on it too. I looked at what they've said and done before and used it to look at what the likely outcome will be for their current behaviour. And it turns out to be right. I'm not going to be apologetic for that. If you feel a bit silly then perhaps the person you need to look at is you and how you analyse things.
 

Sick Boy

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Sep 29, 2008
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Farmers will just cut standards in the Uk as well and it’ll be a race to the bottom, it was obviously always going to happen though, just can’t believe some thought it wouldn’t do. Unfortunately the UK isn’t in a position to say no to America and other countries now.
 

rob9872

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Mar 21, 2011
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Quick lads over here with all the usual suspects, we've got another pile on to say how shit the government is for the 59611314241241th time this year
 
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Sick Boy

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Seen farmers already saying they will have no choice but to lower welfare standards. If they don't they won't be able to compete on cost.
Yeah, unfortunately it’s inevitable but its essentially what people voted for
 

clint van damme

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May 3, 2015
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Quick lads over here with all the usual suspects, we've got another pile on to say how shit the government is for the 59611314241241th time this year
Quick lads over here, we need to defend the government at all costs no matter how shit they are. What's wrong with rat hair in your spaghetti any way?!!
 
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skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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Some stats regarding salmonella poisoning. The EU typically has about 200 deaths a year from salmonella poisoning. The U.K. on the EU’s salmonella infections per capita chart were typically the best, in terms of low numbers of infections and deaths.
The US which has about 1 million less population than the EU has typically 400+ deaths a year.
In the name of Brexit we’re lowering our standards to meet US standards having previously had one of the highest standards in the EU.
How are we taking back control?
 

NorthernWisdom

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Apr 23, 2013
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In the name of Brexit we’re lowering our standards to meet US standards having previously had one of the highest standards in the EU.
How are we taking back control?
If we were making our food standards higher than the EU, that would be an excellent argument in favour of Brexit, too.
 

Jamesimus

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Jul 19, 2011
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It's okay to admit you ignored all the warnings and voted for something that isn't transpiring in the way that you hoped it would...
 

skybluetony176

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Aug 2, 2013
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It's okay to admit you ignored all the warnings and voted for something that isn't transpiring in the way that you hoped it would...
Project fear became project here which became project hopelessly optimistic.
Brexit reality is now worse than project fear.
 
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robbiekeane

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May 13, 2016
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Not being funny, but people were saying this was going to happen ages ago, and now it’s happened. It’s no surprise at all.

They’re liars, to be honest it’s beyond comprehension how you are so blind to this.
Well don't go writing threads of surprise at something others realised years ago as being blatantly obvious.

This isn't about bias. If it were Labour, or the Lib Dems, or the Greens I'll call them out on it too. I looked at what they've said and done before and used it to look at what the likely outcome will be for their current behaviour. And it turns out to be right. I'm not going to be apologetic for that. If you feel a bit silly then perhaps the person you need to look at is you and how you analyse things.
So, let's pretend for a second that you are right about everything and I am sadly misinformed, uneducated and, as you say, "blind" to these things.

When someone notices and calls out something that is completely in line with your point of view, and arguably out of kilter with their usual political leaning, your reaction is to try and condescend that person and tell them it's beyond comprehension how they could be so blind to it?

Not - take the opportunity to explain, respectfully and politely, how this is is in fact not defendable and rather it, for you, confirms your general feeling towards the current party and was something you had long suspected of happening. Maybe add to the debate and other people's understanding and say what their excuse is or may be (which I'm not quite sure could be and is the reason I posted), and how your personal view (probably) is that that's bullshit and here are the reasons why.

I'm actually a swing voter and I vote based on what I think are the most material issues at the time and how they are represented in the manifesto and discussions. How ironic that if you actually wanted to make a make a difference and help to change the current landscape which you so clearly are not happy with, you might have more success by treating people with less disdain and generally being a bit less of a prick, but instead are much more interested in a cheap "i told you so" and being right (in your eyes), that you simply can't help yourself.

Cool, won't go writing any more threads to discuss any of it and won't respond on more - I didn't realise this was a "labour only" section and there's no space for discussion. Enjoy!
 

Ring Of Steel

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May 22, 2017
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So, let's pretend for a second that you are right about everything and I am sadly misinformed, uneducated and, as you say, "blind" to these things.

When someone notices and calls out something that is completely in line with your point of view, and arguably out of kilter with their usual political leaning, your reaction is to try and condescend that person and tell them it's beyond comprehension how they could be so blind to it?

Not - take the opportunity to explain, respectfully and politely, how this is is in fact not defendable and rather it, for you, confirms your general feeling towards the current party and was something you had long suspected of happening. Maybe add to the debate and other people's understanding and say what their excuse is or may be (which I'm not quite sure could be and is the reason I posted), and how your personal view (probably) is that that's bullshit and here are the reasons why.

I'm actually a swing voter and I vote based on what I think are the most material issues at the time and how they are represented in the manifesto and discussions. How ironic that if you actually wanted to make a make a difference and help to change the current landscape which you so clearly are not happy with, you might have more success by treating people with less disdain and generally being a bit less of a prick, but instead are much more interested in a cheap "i told you so" and being right (in your eyes), that you simply can't help yourself.

Cool, won't go writing any more threads to discuss any of it and won't respond on more - I didn't realise this was a "labour only" section and there's no space for discussion. Enjoy!
see you then m8
 

clint van damme

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May 3, 2015
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So, let's pretend for a second that you are right about everything and I am sadly misinformed, uneducated and, as you say, "blind" to these things.

When someone notices and calls out something that is completely in line with your point of view, and arguably out of kilter with their usual political leaning, your reaction is to try and condescend that person and tell them it's beyond comprehension how they could be so blind to it?

Not - take the opportunity to explain, respectfully and politely, how this is is in fact not defendable and rather it, for you, confirms your general feeling towards the current party and was something you had long suspected of happening. Maybe add to the debate and other people's understanding and say what their excuse is or may be (which I'm not quite sure could be and is the reason I posted), and how your personal view (probably) is that that's bullshit and here are the reasons why.

I'm actually a swing voter and I vote based on what I think are the most material issues at the time and how they are represented in the manifesto and discussions. How ironic that if you actually wanted to make a make a difference and help to change the current landscape which you so clearly are not happy with, you might have more success by treating people with less disdain and generally being a bit less of a prick, but instead are much more interested in a cheap "i told you so" and being right (in your eyes), that you simply can't help yourself.

Cool, won't go writing any more threads to discuss any of it and won't respond on more - I didn't realise this was a "labour only" section and there's no space for discussion. Enjoy!
'You can't have a discussion on here, I won't bother trying.
The last refuge of people who are clearly in the wrong but can't admit it.'

You're better than that
 
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NorthernWisdom

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Apr 23, 2013
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I can think of a fair few of the 'Conservatives' on here who would be against the lowering of food standards. OK, one or two of them might throw in the 'ah but the EU...' line, but I don't quite see how it's party political.

Know a fair few 'Conservatives' (although clearly not enough!) who also wouldn't be surprised at a Boris Johnson government being a sham of false promises. Not sure pointing out Johnson is a proven liar who doesn't bother with detail is a party political point. Even some of his family would agree!
 

skyblueindorset

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Mar 21, 2011
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I can think of a fair few of the 'Conservatives' on here who would be against the lowering of food standards. OK, one or two of them might throw in the 'ah but the EU...' line, but I don't quite see how it's party political.

Know a fair few 'Conservatives' (although clearly not enough!) who also wouldn't be surprised at a Boris Johnson government being a sham of false promises. Not sure pointing out Johnson is a proven liar who doesn't bother with detail is a party political point. Even some of his family would agree!
The problem is, NW, that too many Tory MPs saw the Agriculture Bill as party political. Only 14 of them (my MP included) voted against the government.
 
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Sick Boy

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rather than taking back control it’s just handed control over to the Americans without any sort of say whatsoever, nice
 
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Ian1779

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Dec 6, 2012
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So, let's pretend for a second that you are right about everything and I am sadly misinformed, uneducated and, as you say, "blind" to these things.

When someone notices and calls out something that is completely in line with your point of view, and arguably out of kilter with their usual political leaning, your reaction is to try and condescend that person and tell them it's beyond comprehension how they could be so blind to it?

Not - take the opportunity to explain, respectfully and politely, how this is is in fact not defendable and rather it, for you, confirms your general feeling towards the current party and was something you had long suspected of happening. Maybe add to the debate and other people's understanding and say what their excuse is or may be (which I'm not quite sure could be and is the reason I posted), and how your personal view (probably) is that that's bullshit and here are the reasons why.

I'm actually a swing voter and I vote based on what I think are the most material issues at the time and how they are represented in the manifesto and discussions. How ironic that if you actually wanted to make a make a difference and help to change the current landscape which you so clearly are not happy with, you might have more success by treating people with less disdain and generally being a bit less of a prick, but instead are much more interested in a cheap "i told you so" and being right (in your eyes), that you simply can't help yourself.

Cool, won't go writing any more threads to discuss any of it and won't respond on more - I didn't realise this was a "labour only" section and there's no space for discussion. Enjoy!
Well there is the train of thought in regards to listening to argument from both sides (something I happily admit I may not always want to do) so we’re not silencing anyone.
With that in mind then, we should see if anyone (maybe you) can ‘justify’ why the government want to do what they are suggesting. What is the motive? It certainly does not appear to be for taking back control as we would be in effect subservient to American food standards which are demonstrably worse than ours. It’s not to protect the UK farmers and their livelihoods. So what is it?

The floor is here - let’s hear it.
 
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer

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Aug 16, 2018
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So, let's pretend for a second that you are right about everything and I am sadly misinformed, uneducated and, as you say, "blind" to these things.

When someone notices and calls out something that is completely in line with your point of view, and arguably out of kilter with their usual political leaning, your reaction is to try and condescend that person and tell them it's beyond comprehension how they could be so blind to it?

Not - take the opportunity to explain, respectfully and politely, how this is is in fact not defendable and rather it, for you, confirms your general feeling towards the current party and was something you had long suspected of happening. Maybe add to the debate and other people's understanding and say what their excuse is or may be (which I'm not quite sure could be and is the reason I posted), and how your personal view (probably) is that that's bullshit and here are the reasons why.

I'm actually a swing voter and I vote based on what I think are the most material issues at the time and how they are represented in the manifesto and discussions. How ironic that if you actually wanted to make a make a difference and help to change the current landscape which you so clearly are not happy with, you might have more success by treating people with less disdain and generally being a bit less of a prick, but instead are much more interested in a cheap "i told you so" and being right (in your eyes), that you simply can't help yourself.

Cool, won't go writing any more threads to discuss any of it and won't respond on more - I didn't realise this was a "labour only" section and there's no space for discussion. Enjoy!
I was doing my best to be civil. Compared to some others who have just resorted to calling people a brain dead c*** I felt it was reasonably restrained.

I was trying to politely point out on the other thread why the likelihood of why that contractor was chosen over others with the argument of looking at many other contractors they chosen that followed a similar pattern. This is another example of similar behaviour and I wanted to point that out. The way I did it wasn't the best I admit.

Although I wasn't clear I wasn't advocating that the other company that was making the complaint should have been given the contract instead, just that it appeared that it had a far more credible history to at least achieve what it was saying it could. Yes, it was a much lower amount but given how the govt had been bitten before you'd think they'd rather have someone involved in that type of sector rather than risk being bitten again with a similar start-up set up. I know companies set up other companies for specific projects/contracts for tax and legal reasons and that could also be a factor in it, but the whole set up just didn't have anything going for it.

Anyway, Cov to win on Sat (y)
 

Grendel

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Sep 19, 2011
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Farmers will just cut standards in the Uk as well and it’ll be a race to the bottom, it was obviously always going to happen though, just can’t believe some thought it wouldn’t do. Unfortunately the UK isn’t in a position to say no to America and other countries now.
I know it’s shocking