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larry_david

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Went over to Draycote Water this morning. 3 laps (just over 14 miles).... averaged 7:24/mile...

Must've been close to 100 people running round as individuals and small groups. I was one of the only ones running clockwise, and i found out why when i hit the lake wall at the end of each lap... the wind was pretty ferocious, it was like trying to go round Cape Horn at times...
Think I do it the same way as you, that last stretch seems to go on forever
 
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Travs

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Think I do it the same way as you, that last stretch seems to go on forever
Certainly feels that way. But just got to try and break it down mentally. Entire lap for me was taking approx 35mins, so the end section surely couldn't be more than 7 or 8mins at the very most, into the wind. Just get the head down, don't look up for a couple of mins, and you're nearly there!
 

Ring Of Steel

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After a week off doing just weights & long walks did a 5k tonight- 25:15 which is a new best, on the same course as before though which has hills totalling about 85m climb across the route & some stops & about turns- seriously got to get off my arse and scope a flat course. Feels good though, got 6 of those cute little badges on Strava to decipher now :)
 

Travs

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After a week off doing just weights & long walks did a 5k tonight- 25:15 which is a new best, on the same course as before though which has hills totalling about 85m climb across the route & some stops & about turns- seriously got to get off my arse and scope a flat course. Feels good though, got 6 of those cute little badges on Strava to decipher now :)
Whilst it's great to find a flat and straight course, and probably straight away knock a minute off your best time... what really matters is progress... so if you are improving on the same course, then that is a good sign.

Did a track session this morning. 18 x 400mtrs with 1min rest between. Managed to keep them all betwen 80-85secs which was quite pleasing, as i was not expecting to do that many at that pace, with a relatively short rest period.

Funny how the fatigue builds up then absolutely slams into you... after 14 reps i thought i could make it to 20 without issue... but after 16 reps i felt i could hardly get my legs started for reps 17 & 18...!
 
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Ring Of Steel

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Whilst it's great to find a flat and straight course, and probably straight away knock a minute off your best time... what really matters is progress... so if you are improving on the same course, then that is a good sign.

Did a track session this morning. 18 x 400mtrs with 1min rest between. Managed to keep them all betwen 80-85secs which was quite pleasing, as i was not expecting to do that many at that pace, with a relatively short rest period.

Funny how the fatigue builds up then absolutely slams into you... after 14 reps i thought i could make it to 20 without issue... but after 16 reps i felt i could hardly get my legs started for reps 17 & 18...!
This is true- I am probably getting more actual benefit going up hills, and have chopped 40 seconds off so far- it would be nice though to know what my level is on a flat run- I'll get round to it at some stage... I know what you mean about fatigue, its mental too- the hardest point for me is the last 3 minutes, which is all flat & much easier- mentally though I know the end is in sight so the focus reduces, & all I can think about is the pain & desperation for the end..
 

Ring Of Steel

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Whilst it's great to find a flat and straight course, and probably straight away knock a minute off your best time... what really matters is progress... so if you are improving on the same course, then that is a good sign.

Did a track session this morning. 18 x 400mtrs with 1min rest between. Managed to keep them all betwen 80-85secs which was quite pleasing, as i was not expecting to do that many at that pace, with a relatively short rest period.

Funny how the fatigue builds up then absolutely slams into you... after 14 reps i thought i could make it to 20 without issue... but after 16 reps i felt i could hardly get my legs started for reps 17 & 18...!
I've found that type of training very good- sometimes I'll do a fast run for 3 mins, then jog for 2 mins & then walk for 1 min and repeat that a few times- for me anyway I find that more of an effort than just straight running for the whole route.
 

Travs

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I've found that type of training very good- sometimes I'll do a fast run for 3 mins, then jog for 2 mins & then walk for 1 min and repeat that a few times- for me anyway I find that more of an effort than just straight running for the whole route.
RE your first post about mental fatigue.... i've always found the opposite. It's the first half of a race which gets to me. Perhaps it's the differing race experiences we all have... i've done a fair few ultras and when you've been on the go for 3hrs and realise you're not even a quarter of the way through, that hurts you mentally. Same with cross country... especially if you go off too hard at the start... realise you're struggling but you've only got 6mins into a 40 minute race!

For me, once you hit the end part of a race/run, you know you've just got to see it out, and can try to push the pace/pain, as you know you don't need to save anything for later.

Of course, we're all different... so much of racing and running hard is mental.
 
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Travs

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I've found that type of training very good- sometimes I'll do a fast run for 3 mins, then jog for 2 mins & then walk for 1 min and repeat that a few times- for me anyway I find that more of an effort than just straight running for the whole route.
Yes, once you've gotten a decent base of constant pace running, it's worth adding in "rep" sessions. A lot of people get too carried away with flying straight into fast sessions, HIIT sessions all the rage now. Fine if you want a quick burn, but if you want to get better at running you need the base of endurance first. Too much hard running too early, and the inevitable outcome is injury and over-fatigue.

But learning to run faster than you are necessarily comfortable with, recover, and do it again and again, are key to improving.
 
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Ring Of Steel

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RE your first post about mental fatigue.... i've always found the opposite. It's the first half of a race which gets to me. Perhaps it's the differing race experiences we all have... i've done a fair few ultras and when you've been on the go for 3hrs and realise you're not even a quarter of the way through, that hurts you mentally. Same with cross country... especially if you go off too hard at the start... realise you're struggling but you've only got 6mins into a 40 minute race!

For me, once you hit the end part of a race/run, you know you've just got to see it out, and can try to push the pace/pain, as you know you don't need to save anything for later.

Of course, we're all different... so much of racing and running hard is mental.
You're no doubt right. I haven't got anywhere near any ultraruns or anything like that, I've only done 5k or so, but I think I am now operating too much in a comfort zone, got to up the distances- and when that happens it may well be that I look at the watch with horror after a few mins! Maybe because I am still pretty new as well, I'm so in the zone at first determined to do it that everything else is a blur, then realise its actually pretty ok but then see the end in sight & switch off then feel the pain. Your distances & times are something I don't think I'll ever get to- and I'm ok with that as a 45 yr old just trying to be really healthy- however its pretty inspirational stuff and without doubt for me its got to go up a notch now.
 
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Travs

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You're no doubt right. I haven't got anywhere near any ultraruns or anything like that, I've only done 5k or so, but I think I am now operating too much in a comfort zone, got to up the distances- and when that happens it may well be that I look at the watch with horror after a few mins! Maybe because I am still pretty new as well, I'm so in the zone at first determined to do it that everything else is a blur, then realise its actually pretty ok but then see the end in sight & switch off then feel the pain. Your distances & times are something I don't think I'll ever get to- and I'm ok with that as a 45 yr old just trying to be really healthy- however its pretty inspirational stuff and without doubt for me its got to go up a notch now.
If you're really keen, it's seriously worth considering joining a local club. Membership is incredibly cheap (i'm at Godiva Harriers and it's less than £90 a year).... compare that to a monthly gym membership (which i also have), and the coaching, team-mates, plus entry into road relays, cross country, etc, it's incredibly good value. And there's never obligation to attend every training session, race, etc...

Rich who posts on here has recently joined a club and incredibly positive about it. I'm happy to articulate my thoughts on the various clubs in the area, of which there are many... probably best via PM though!!
 

Rich

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Hello always watching.

I joined Northbrook in November, I think it’s £30 per year and you get 3-4 sessions a week, comeraderie, and entry into various events including cross country. Can’t recommend it enough.

I’m with Travs on the mental fatigue, I did a half marathon this morning. I really struggle to settle for the first 3, settle at a steady pace for the next 3-4, then when I’m past halfway I feel comfortable to go for it, knowing I’m on the home stretch.

Did my 9th half this morning and my third under 2 (1:55). Pretty happy with that as it was on tired legs as I did a trail half on Sunday. 3hours on the legs on Sunday, meant they were still a bit fatigued today. Trying to get somewhere near 1:45 for the cov half. Only 10minutes to find
 

Travs

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£30 a year is fantastic value. Ours a bit more but we do have the track and conditioning facility to pay for.

By rights Northbrook AC should be my local club (probably a little closer to me than Nuneaton), and I did enquire there.

Obviously the four Cov clubs (Godiva, Northbrook, Masseys, Sphinx).... But there's also Nuneaton Harriers. Kenilworth and Leamington AC are both strong clubs, and Rugby&Northampton and Knowle&Dorridge are both very strong clubs.
 

Rich

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@Travs mate, I really want to increase my vo2 max. It’s been stuck on 46 for weeks despite my recent improvements in fitness and pace.
I’ve just been reading about the benefits of 30:30 intervals up to as many as 20 per session. Would you recommend this as a good way to get the vo2 up or is there a better method you would suggest?
 

Travs

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@Travs mate, I really want to increase my vo2 max. It’s been stuck on 46 for weeks despite my recent improvements in fitness and pace.
I’ve just been reading about the benefits of 30:30 intervals up to as many as 20 per session. Would you recommend this as a good way to get the vo2 up or is there a better method you would suggest?
I'm not a great one for scientific terms etc, so probably not the best person to ask re VO2 max. But we have been given some 30:30 club sessions to do since the lockdown.

In fact this week's club session was...

10 x 30/30
10 x 1min/1min
10 x 30/30

Although I gave it a miss as I had a track session booked.

My personal (and by no means expert) opinion is to do a range of rep distances and intensities, work on your weaknesses, and if times are improving then why worry.

For example last few track sessions I've done a couple of 400's sessions. I did a set of 18 this week at around 82-85secs. But a couple of weeks before that did a set of 8 at 77-78secs. Two equal distances, but changing the intensity by a few seconds a lap really made it different.

Also done some 800mtr and 1km reps... found these more of a struggle than 400's, so next week intend to work on these longer reps, probably going to do some mile reps.

The only other advice I can give is on a practical level, and applies to both hard training sessions and races. Warm up properly! Often the shorter and more intense the race, the harder the warmup required. You know when you're blowing out of your arse 2mins into a race... it's a sign that you've either gone off a little too hard, but equally could be you're not warmed up properly. I prefer to arrive on the start line with a decent sweat on.

When I do the Bedworth Parkrun, it's no surprise that my better times always come when I've ran to the Park (1.5 miles) then done some more strenuous warmup once there, rather than bowling out the carpark at 8-55am straight to the line.

On this note, if/when you start running the cross-country races, I think it's good to have a "routine" before start of each race.... mine is perhaps a mile of gentle running, then some drills with short sprints to loosen up, finally a couple of longer sprints (perhaps 20-30secs), then jog back. Seems to work for me, but I see people doing all sorts...!

Is there a specific reason you want to improve your VO2 figure? As I say I am no scientist or expert... but if your times are coming down then that would be my measure, and surely VO2 will eventually follow...
 

Rich

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Thanks for this reply @Travs .

The two reasons I started running are 1. To gain fitness and 2. To help my lungs get stronger

I had an Exercise induced asthma attack in 2015 (cov parkrun) and it put me right off any exercise for 3 years.

My lungs still feel like my weak point. After a half marathon it’s my lungs that hurt. After a hill session it’s the lungs. When running pbs it’s the lungs every time that hold me back.

I feel if I can work on strengthening the lungs and increasing their efficiency then I should be able to start looking sub 20 as I hope to do.

I have weak glutes so have been targeting them specifically, was hoping to do the same for my other weak part.
 
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Travs

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Sounds like a reasonable theory...

I'm the opposite... it's usually my legs give out before my lungs... my limiting factor seems to be getting the physical speed into my legs and sustaining that effort. Seem to have good endurance in my legs, due to the fell running... but relatively poor when it comes to flat pace.
 
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Rich

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Sounds like a reasonable theory...

I'm the opposite... it's usually my legs give out before my lungs... my limiting factor seems to be getting the physical speed into my legs and sustaining that effort. Seem to have good endurance in my legs, due to the fell running... but relatively poor when it comes to flat pace.
I’d say your pace is pretty decent regardless of terrain mate.

I always feel like I could move my legs faster if I could get the air in.

I’m down to 1:55 half now, which isn’t fast but I can’t go quicker due to the lungs burning out.
 

Travs

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I’d say your pace is pretty decent regardless of terrain mate.

I always feel like I could move my legs faster if I could get the air in.

I’m down to 1:55 half now, which isn’t fast but I can’t go quicker due to the lungs burning out.
In comparison the general public, and even other runners, yes it might be "decent".

But there's always people better. I look in wonder at the guy in my club who ran for his country in the Olympics. Last summer I watched him run a sub 4minute 1500mtrs... 20mins later he ran in the 5000mtrs and went round in 15mins, despite stopping to do up his laces.

Then he looks at the fact he didn't make it through the heats in the Olympics and got lapped... what must he think of those guys going round 5km in 13mins?!?

1hr55 is decent and great progress. Incidentally I went through the half marathon last weekend at Draycote in 1hr37, during my training run which I think totalled about 14 miles in the end. That would actually be my fastest half marathon ever! Although I haven't raced one since I started running seriously. Think I ran a 1hr43 on an off-road half once. If I was to race a road half now, i'd like to think I could get close to 1hr25.... but whether i'll bother to do one to find out is a different story!
 
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Great_Expectations

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Always enjoy reading this thread - interesting to hear about other people’s experiences and progress.

Last week I clocked just under 45 miles and should be on course for the same this week. I’ve varied it a little as per previous sessions and introduced runs with sprint sections in, so not exactly interval but sporadic sprints mixed with a steady (but not slow/easy pace). I think I’m unintentionally doing Fartlek training, from my limited reading on it?

I have a slight issue today though as I really fancy a short burst (3/4 miles) but my calf is really tight (I think due to the number of sprints I’ve done this week?), I’ve got a roller which I’m trying to use to get what feels like a knot out, so hopefully as long as it’d not stupidly tight I’ll chance it. Then it’s the usual Saturday half tomorrow.

Any tips on best ways to recover post run? Or specifically helping get rid of this tight calf?
 

Rich

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Always enjoy reading this thread - interesting to hear about other people’s experiences and progress.

Last week I clocked just under 45 miles and should be on course for the same this week. I’ve varied it a little as per previous sessions and introduced runs with sprint sections in, so not exactly interval but sporadic sprints mixed with a steady (but not slow/easy pace). I think I’m unintentionally doing Fartlek training, from my limited reading on it?

I have a slight issue today though as I really fancy a short burst (3/4 miles) but my calf is really tight (I think due to the number of sprints I’ve done this week?), I’ve got a roller which I’m trying to use to get what feels like a knot out, so hopefully as long as it’d not stupidly tight I’ll chance it. Then it’s the usual Saturday half tomorrow.

Any tips on best ways to recover post run? Or specifically helping get rid of this tight calf?
Well done on the mileage buddy.

I’ve had a tight left calf for a number of months now so can’t give any advice on that unfortunately.

I’m finally going to see my physio tomorrow, first time since early March so I’ll be getting him to have a go at sorting mine.
 
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Travs

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Yes fartlek is (I think) random fast/slow sections in a run.

I stretch after the majority of my runs (never before though). Seems to keep me going. With regards to any tightness, if it's just that, and not strain/injury, you've got two fairly obvious choices... run through it or back off a little...

I'd say that at 45 miles a week, you've probably got enough base conditioning to chance it. But if you keep piling harder sessions onto a fatigued body, at some point you've got to back it off and recover. I can't do more than 2 hard sessions in a week without starting to struggle. Probably 1 session a week if I was in a heavy schedule of races.

If you suspect the calf is anything more than tightness then really it just needs rest. I tried to come back from a calf injury too quick a couple of years ago. Ran the Midlands Cross-Country Champs and had to retire after a mile when my calf went. it was only a fortnight until the national Champs which I ran, against my better judgement... had to limp round, finished about 1500th, and then spent several weeks trying to recover.

As for general post-run recovery, you've just got to find what works for you... i'll always do a steady few miles the day after even a hard race... helps me loosen up and recover faster... but others would say just complete rest.

Same with tapering/preparing for a race... everyone has their own preference. Trial and error really.
 
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Great_Expectations

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I just did a quick 3 miles, with a sprint half mile thrown in to see how it felt. It’s still really tight but I don’t think it’s anything more as I tested it quite heavily the last two days with sprint sections and it hasn’t pulled it got worse.

I haven’t tested it over a longer period so I might keep my half quite local tomorrow just in case!
 
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Great_Expectations

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https://www.caffeinebullet.com/online-store

I’ve been using these lately for my mid run fuel. Crashed completely at mile 8 of my half marathon this morning and they instantly gave me a pick up.

If anyone’s interested I signed up as an ambassador and get 15% off using the code Bulletrich

For what they cost it’s 100% worth giving them a try.
I don’t use gels or anything unless I’m really really struggling, but tempted to give these a try for a half and see what impact they have. Is it a short burst or does it last?
 
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shmmeee

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I know this might be better on the Tech section but I want to buy some AirPods (or something similar) to wear when running. Has anyone got any thoughts an which are best or which ones they use and can recommend?

Thanks
I loved my AirPods, until the kids lost them, fit me absolutely perfectly and ran with them no issues plus worked beautifully with my iPhone. Really like the auto switching between one and no ears and the tap function too. Perfect for interruptions at work.

They’re very Marmite though, I know people who they just won’t stay in their ears or they’re uncomfortable. I’d recommend trying them before you buy. This is version 1, no idea about the flashy new ones.
 
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Rich

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I don’t use gels or anything unless I’m really really struggling, but tempted to give these a try for a half and see what impact they have. Is it a short burst or does it last?
I’m probably getting 3 miles per sweet. Over the course of a half I use 3-4 depending how I feel.
Like I said before, I think they’re brilliant and well worth a try. Better than gels as they’re not thick gloop, but you do have to chew them for a minute or so.
 
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Ring Of Steel

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Tried a bit of interval-type stuff tonight- ran 2k, walked 1k, repeated that, then at the end of the second set turned the Garmin on and ran a 5k- managed to do that in 25.05, the PB is coming down slowly... Pretty confident now that starting fresh & on a flat course I could comfortably do sub-25 mins, my god I ache all over now :) Signed up for a 10k in October (covid allowing of course), ultimate aim now is to work up to a marathon some time in 2021, wishful thinking perhaps but good to have an objective!
 
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robbiekeane

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If you're really keen, it's seriously worth considering joining a local club. Membership is incredibly cheap (i'm at Godiva Harriers and it's less than £90 a year).... compare that to a monthly gym membership (which i also have), and the coaching, team-mates, plus entry into road relays, cross country, etc, it's incredibly good value. And there's never obligation to attend every training session, race, etc...

Rich who posts on here has recently joined a club and incredibly positive about it. I'm happy to articulate my thoughts on the various clubs in the area, of which there are many... probably best via PM though!!
Hello mate...been reading your advice and going to try some things out.

One thing I wanted to ask you - any tips on how to handle running in the heat? I was running a <21min 5k back in April when it was nice cool misty weather. Now where I’m at it’s 25degrees minimum every day and even if I get up at 6am it’s that hot.

How much does that slow your times down? I’ve literally added 2 minutes or more into my 5k times. Mentally that does my head in and it’s quite demoralizing!

Maybe just need to adjust expectations and accept I’ll have very different times in the summer.
 

robbiekeane

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Tried a bit of interval-type stuff tonight- ran 2k, walked 1k, repeated that, then at the end of the second set turned the Garmin on and ran a 5k- managed to do that in 25.05, the PB is coming down slowly... Pretty confident now that starting fresh & on a flat course I could comfortably do sub-25 mins, my god I ache all over now :) Signed up for a 10k in October (covid allowing of course), ultimate aim now is to work up to a marathon some time in 2021, wishful thinking perhaps but good to have an objective!
I’m down to sign up for a 2021 marathon if you want a virtual training buddy
 
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Travs

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Hello mate...been reading your advice and going to try some things out.

One thing I wanted to ask you - any tips on how to handle running in the heat? I was running a <21min 5k back in April when it was nice cool misty weather. Now where I’m at it’s 25degrees minimum every day and even if I get up at 6am it’s that hot.

How much does that slow your times down? I’ve literally added 2 minutes or more into my 5k times. Mentally that does my head in and it’s quite demoralizing!

Maybe just need to adjust expectations and accept I’ll have very different times in the summer.
I think how we deal with heat is very individual, and I don't think there's a set answer.

I think perhaps you just need to take time to adjust and get used to running in that heat. When I was training in Thailand we were basically told that if we ever wanted to get used to working hard in the extreme heat, to never use the AirCon in our rooms. Just suffer at first and you'll learn to live with it.

Perhaps need to just get out there on some lighter runs to get used to it. A general increase in mileage whatever the weather will certainly help towards bringing times down.

I certainly think a difference of 2mins over 5km, if your fitness is still the same level, must be attributed at least partly to the mental challenge of running in higher temperatures...
 

Sky_Blue_Daz

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I changed my route today and added the steep hill by coundon court school ( don’t know the name of the road ) it’s a country lane ended up doing 4.5 miles loved it .
 
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