Robins with the assist.... (3 Viewers)

[Shannerz]

That was a one-off.

As it turned out in the season and a half that followed, yes; beyond that, pointless conjecture.

23/24 we were misapplication of technology away from a cup final; without a cup run, the play offs would have been more likely. Who knows what would have happened.

I agree that the play offs would have been very unlikely without the change last season, but trying to argue you know what would have happened afterwards had we not had one is pointless.

Clearly the changes worked, but that's not the same as suggesting there was some sort of ceiling. There wasn't. What happened happened, and it's turned out to be for the best; that's all you can say.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

As much as i love Robins and as much as ive given Lampard shit since hes been here i hope he gets all the credit For this season .

Yes Robins Helped build this team and yes robins got us to this division but frank was appointed with a job to do and if he wins us the league that is probably above and beyond even dougs expectations

Its his achievement , Robins is already rightly given the hero status for his own achievements

I get the meaning behind it btw and its nice


Its frank and Joe

And Chris

 

[clint van damme]

And Chris

Sorted us Luton away tickets last season, top man!

 

[covcity4life]

None of it would have been possible without Tim Fisher persuading Robins to come back. Get the statue built!

The truth that no one wants to admit

Sisu saved us. Wether that was their plan or not that's how it worked out

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

As it turned out in the season and a half that followed, yes; beyond that, pointless conjecture.

23/24 we were misapplication of technology away from a cup final; without a cup run, the play offs would have been more likely. Who knows what would have happened.

I agree that the play offs would have been very unlikely without the change last season, but trying to argue you know what would have happened afterwards had we not had one is pointless.

Clearly the changes worked, but that's not the same as suggesting there was some sort of ceiling. There wasn't. What happened happened, and it's turned out to be for the best; that's all you can say.

We’re starting to see proof of the trajectory that faced us with his tenure at Stoke.

An FA Cup final would’ve been great but ultimately, when faced between that or promotion this season, we all unanimously prioritised promotion. In that respect, we failed significantly in 23/24 and our record against the top half was woeful and we lost all our big 6-pointers home and away. To that end, I’m not sure the FA Cup would’ve made much difference. Fixture congestion was a factor but we record against the playoff contenders without fixture congestion were poor.

That form carried into 24/25, our home form under Lampard has been ridiculous and don’t even think Robins managed 75%+ win rate at home in L1 or L2. You can say ‘you don’t know we wouldn’t have turned it around’ but this just a low-resolution take. Under Lampard we only lost to Leeds and Burnley at home whereas we were losing to dross like Derby, Wednesday, Swansea under Robins. The ‘Robins always turns it around’ narrative was one we believed with religious-like reverence - it didn’t make it true.

Lampard has completely turned the team around and its trajectory. 22/23 was a great season but very much looks like a one-off from Robins as there is nothing really to suggest he’ll turn Stoke around at this stage. I’d like to see him get promoted with them, but my view is that he won’t.

 

[Shannerz]

We’re starting to see proof of the trajectory that faced us with his tenure at Stoke.

No we haven't.

We've been to see what he's been able to achieve in a season and a bit in Stoke, taking into account all of the given variables associated with that job.

Stop the pointless conjecture on things that will never be proved one way or the other.

 

[Evo1883]

We’re starting to see proof of the trajectory that faced us with his tenure at Stoke.

An FA Cup final would’ve been great but ultimately, when faced between that or promotion this season, we all unanimously prioritised promotion. In that respect, we failed significantly in 23/24 and our record against the top half was woeful and we lost all our big 6-pointers home and away. To that end, I’m not sure the FA Cup would’ve made much difference. Fixture congestion was a factor but we record against the playoff contenders without fixture congestion were poor.

That form carried into 24/25, our home form under Lampard has been ridiculous and don’t even think Robins managed 75%+ win rate at home in L1 or L2. You can say ‘you don’t know we wouldn’t have turned it around’ but this just a low-resolution take. Under Lampard we only lost to Leeds and Burnley at home whereas we were losing to dross like Derby, Wednesday, Swansea under Robins. The ‘Robins always turns it around’ narrative was one we believed with religious-like reverence - it didn’t make it true.

Lampard has completely turned the team around and its trajectory. 22/23 was a great season but very much looks like a one-off from Robins as there is nothing really to suggest he’ll turn Stoke around at this stage. I’d like to see him get promoted with them, but my view is that he won’t.

You cant guess what would have happened we can only go off what did


Just appreciate the great things he did for us

 

[fernandopartridge]

We’re starting to see proof of the trajectory that faced us with his tenure at Stoke.

An FA Cup final would’ve been great but ultimately, when faced between that or promotion this season, we all unanimously prioritised promotion. In that respect, we failed significantly in 23/24 and our record against the top half was woeful and we lost all our big 6-pointers home and away. To that end, I’m not sure the FA Cup would’ve made much difference. Fixture congestion was a factor but we record against the playoff contenders without fixture congestion were poor.

That form carried into 24/25, our home form under Lampard has been ridiculous and don’t even think Robins managed 75%+ win rate at home in L1 or L2. You can say ‘you don’t know we wouldn’t have turned it around’ but this just a low-resolution take. Under Lampard we only lost to Leeds and Burnley at home whereas we were losing to dross like Derby, Wednesday, Swansea under Robins. The ‘Robins always turns it around’ narrative was one we believed with religious-like reverence - it didn’t make it true.

Lampard has completely turned the team around and its trajectory. 22/23 was a great season but very much looks like a one-off from Robins as there is nothing really to suggest he’ll turn Stoke around at this stage. I’d like to see him get promoted with them, but my view is that he won’t.

We beat Leeds at home and drew away. Beat Leicester at home. That season fell away late on but don't over egg it.

 

[LarryGrayson]

You cant guess what would have happened we can only go off what did


Just appreciate the great things he did for us

the man was superb for us no question were just lucky weve had two great managers in a row

 

[Evo1883]

the man was superb for us no question were just lucky weve had two great managers in a row

I think there is no question lampard and his team are coaching and managing at a higher ceiling , but Robins is a great man for his work here

 

[LarryGrayson]

I think there is no question lampard and his team are coaching and managing at a higher ceiling , but Robins is a great man for his work here

i dunno the change has worked but im sure robins would have turned us around how much who knows and why bother comparing really not fair to either as both had different challenges

 

[fernandopartridge]

i dunno the change has worked but im sure robins would have turned us around how much who knows and why bother comparing really not fair to either as both had different challenges

I don't think we'd have finished 17th under Robins last season but I also don't think he'd have been able to get us to the level and mentality we're at now realistically.

But it's academic anyway, he's gone. He's had his plaudits but if we go on to win the league this year, the credit for it for me is all with Lampard, his coaching team and the players.

 

[Shannerz]

I don't think we'd have finished 17th under Robins last season but I also don't think he'd have been able to get us to the level and mentality we're at now realistically.

But it's academic anyway, he's gone. He's had his plaudits but if we go on to win the league this year, the credit for it for me is all with Lampard, his coaching team and the players.

To credit Robins with whatever success we get from this season would be a disservice to Lampard and his team.

 

[LarryGrayson]

if we go on to win the league this year, the credit for it for me is all with Lampard, his coaching team and the players.

of course it is dont matter whats gone before you still have to do it

 

[Macca]

Not forgetting Gordon Strachan. Without him getting us relegated we never have experienced this

 

[fernandopartridge]

Not forgetting Gordon Strachan. Without him getting us relegated we never have experienced this

And let's not forget Russell Slade's tenure...

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

You cant guess what would have happened we can only go off what did


Just appreciate the great things he did for us

On that basis, why sack any manager? Any manager could turn round a bad situation, but they get sacked because the assessment is that they won’t turn it around.

The assessment made by clubs hierarchy is that without Viveash, Robins wasn’t the same manager and looking at how well Viveash has done at Boro with Edwards/Hellberg and Robins at Stoke, perhaps there’s something to that claim.

Robins is a legend and we all appreciate he did. The reality is that if Lampard’s first 30-odd games looked like Robins’ last 30 games, we’d have demanded his head. We were in a bad situation towards the end and it’s beggars belief to think Robins would’ve got us in the playoffs last season. Lampard had to hit automatic promotion form to make the playoffs. In the Championship, we’ve never really performed at 2.0+ ppg under Robins for a 15-20 game stretch.

If we didn’t make playoffs last season, there’s a strong indication that a lot of our star players would’ve wanted out. We literally couldn’t afford to not act.

 

[Evo1883]

On that basis, why sack any manager? Any manager could turn round a bad situation, but they get sacked because the assessment is that they won’t turn it around.

The assessment made by clubs hierarchy is that without Viveash, Robins wasn’t the same manager and looking at how well Viveash has done at Boro with Edwards/Hellberg and Robins at Stoke, perhaps there’s something to that claim.

Robins is a legend and we all appreciate he did. The reality is that if Lampard’s first 30-odd games looked like Robins’ last 30 games, we’d have demanded his head. We were in a bad situation towards the end and it’s beggars belief to think Robins would’ve got us in the playoffs last season. Lampard had to hit automatic promotion form to make the playoffs. In the Championship, we’ve never really performed at 2.0+ ppg under Robins for a 15-20 game stretch.

If we didn’t make playoffs last season, there’s a strong indication that a lot of our star players would’ve wanted out. We literally couldn’t afford to not act.

When edwards left boro they were on similar points to stoke boro got better after edwards left
Stoke went on to have a hideous injury list , not sure why you have to keep digging at robins he did a great job here you dont obsessively credit joe edwards with lampards reign so give it a rest its weird

 

[Evo1883]

I don't think we'd have finished 17th under Robins last season but I also don't think he'd have been able to get us to the level and mentality we're at now realistically.

But it's academic anyway, he's gone. He's had his plaudits but if we go on to win the league this year, the credit for it for me is all with Lampard, his coaching team and the players.

I agree with this

 

[fernandopartridge]

On that basis, why sack any manager? Any manager could turn round a bad situation, but they get sacked because the assessment is that they won’t turn it around.

The assessment made by clubs hierarchy is that without Viveash, Robins wasn’t the same manager and looking at how well Viveash has done at Boro with Edwards/Hellberg and Robins at Stoke, perhaps there’s something to that claim.

Robins is a legend and we all appreciate he did. The reality is that if Lampard’s first 30-odd games looked like Robins’ last 30 games, we’d have demanded his head. We were in a bad situation towards the end and it’s beggars belief to think Robins would’ve got us in the playoffs last season. Lampard had to hit automatic promotion form to make the playoffs. In the Championship, we’ve never really performed at 2.0+ ppg under Robins for a 15-20 game stretch.

If we didn’t make playoffs last season, there’s a strong indication that a lot of our star players would’ve wanted out. We literally couldn’t afford to not act.

Viveash was here when we lost 6 out of the last 7 games in 2024 in a season you previously highlighted to discredit Robins.

 

[Shannerz]

On that basis, why sack any manager? Any manager could turn round a bad situation, but they get sacked because the assessment is that they won’t turn it around.

Aye.

And will never get to prove it one way or the other, so speculation is pointless.

All you can determine is whether the person you brought in had the desired effect.

In this case, emphatically, yes, he did.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

We beat Leeds at home and drew away. Beat Leicester at home. That season fell away late on but don't over egg it.

It’s not over egging it, we got 17 points from a possible 66 against the top half. That isn’t over egging it at all. The reason 24/25 form was so concerning is that we were losing against the kind teams we were comfortably winning against in 23/24.

23/24 top half:
Leicester - 3 points
Ipswich - 0 points
Leeds - 4 points
Southampton - 1 point
WBA - 0 points
Norwich - 1 point
Hull - 1 point
Boro - 6 points (customary)
PNE - 0 points
Bristol City - 1
Cardiff - 0 points

 

[Evo1883]

It’s not over egging it, we got 17 points from a possible 66 against the top half. That isn’t over egging it at all. The reason 24/25 form was so concerning is that we were losing against the kind teams we were comfortably winning against in 23/24.

23/24 top half:
Leicester - 3 points
Ipswich - 0 points
Leeds - 4 points
Southampton - 1 point
WBA - 0 points
Norwich - 1 point
Hull - 1 point
Boro - 6 points (customary)
PNE - 0 points
Bristol City - 1
Cardiff - 0 points

Mucca honestly just give it a rest seriously - nobody wants to argue about it , youre right we are wrong lets move on

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Viveash was here when we lost 6 out of the last 7 games in 2024 in a season you previously highlighted to discredit Robins.

I’m not discrediting Robins here, I’ve point things that point towards the narrative that he took us as far as he could. That isn’t discrediting his legacy, he took us up from L2 whereas Lampard has managed in the Prem and finished in a UCL spot.

Again, King said it clearly that he believed that Robins needed an elite coach beside him so when MR chose to break the partnership with AV, that was a factor in his decision making. AV has found a good thing at Boro whereas Robins seemingly hasn’t found a winning formula since then.

 

[Shannerz]

It’s not over egging it, we got 17 points from a possible 66 against the top half. That isn’t over egging it at all. The reason 24/25 form was so concerning is that we were losing against the kind teams we were comfortably winning against in 23/24.

23/24 top half:
Leicester - 3 points
Ipswich - 0 points
Leeds - 4 points
Southampton - 1 point
WBA - 0 points
Norwich - 1 point
Hull - 1 point
Boro - 6 points (customary)
PNE - 0 points
Bristol City - 1
Cardiff - 0 points

I don't want to argue this, because there's no point, but one thing:

Why do the 6 points against Middlesbrough get the dismissive "customary", but no caveat given for the 0 against Preston or the 1 against Norwich?

Also 'customary', presumably?

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Robins was a good player. I would describe him as a poacher but his all round play was prem level at the time

I remember him at Man Utd and Norwich. He was a decent striker.
I suppose you could compare him to something like Adam Armstrong nowdays.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I don't want to argue this, because there's no point, but one thing:

Why do the 6 points against Middlesbrough get the dismissive "customary", but no caveat given for the 0 against Preston?

Also 'customary', presumably?

It was just a sly dig at Boro tbh. Since you mention PNE, we actually haven’t lost to them under Lampard.

 

[Shannerz]

It was just a sly dig at Boro tbh.

Fair.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Fair.

You’re right though, at the time it was a big deal beating them away. It was the first league game we’d won at their place since 1993 at their old ground.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Could you do one of Russel slade sliding to win the ball back on the half way line