Richardson (2 Viewers)

chiefdave said:

It started off with Tesco buying the land and paying for the contamination with nothing left over.

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This was your previous post. And it isn't the only time you said what you are now saying that you never said.

Explain one thing then. CCFC in partnership with CCC.....ACL....spent 6.8m according to the Sky Blue Trust. But Sky Blue Trust when breaking down all the amounts paid by the different parties list the CCFC amount as 1.758m. The official documents I pointed you towards agree with this amount. So if CCFC paid much more to the build costs why wasn't it stated anywhere?

Take your mind back to when it happened. It was said that Richardson did well out of the deal. I have no idea what was meant by this as I have no way of looking. But were any bungs/money paid to anyone? But where could the extra 5m have gone if not on the legal document or what the Sky Blue Trust listed? Maybe it was the cost of renting HR after it was sold and rented back while the Ricoh was being constructed. But whatever you say less than 1.8m was paid towards the build cost of the RICOH.

Dave - this is a project cost report which doesn't necessarily separate the different ways the council (CNR, ACL, etc) put in money and to which aspect of the overall project.
Also I think you will find the 1.758m from ccfc to acl was their 50% of the original value of the called up up share capital in ACL circa:2003/4.
As the formation & activities of ACL was part of the overall project that is why some of their numbers are included.

As regards the land sale etc. it should still be a matter of public interest - just that it isn't available online. Minutes from the council meeting in October 2003 (which should have more detailed background) again should also be available - just again not online due to the time period.

Look, CCFC in round terms expended something like 18m on the project against which they had outstanding liabilities of 13m. When the joint venture was formed they were allowed to transfer the two amounts into the joint venture at a net amount of around £5m (their investment). That got the club out of a big hole. They then put in £1.78m making a total investment of £6.8m. At that stage they had 50% of joint venture/ACL. They got all but £300k of that investment back when they did the deal with AEHC for £6.5m. How they got paid that is irrelevant to the value of the sale. To be honest they did well to get that value because (a) they didn't even have the option to purchase let alone own the land (b) it would be highly unlikely that costs already invested at that stage would be worth what was paid (c) it was a forced sale entirely of their own makling

Included in the CCC summary of build costs and finance is the sum of £24.1m land purchase. CCFC never included such a sum in their accounts. The project received £42.4m in cash from Tesco's and £17m in other forms of payment (contribution in kind). For CCC (the project) to receive that then the project or CCC must have had legal title to the land the first place. As we know the freehold is in CCC hands. Now they may have backed to backed the deal so that the land purchase was almost immediately followed by the sale to Tesco, they may have used Council reserves temporarily or some other means but it certainly looks to me that CCC did the land deal. If so then they introduced cash and land in to the project and left the proceeds of their land deal with Tesco in the project to pay for the build. Certainly none of the costs of land purchase seem to appear in CCFC Ltd, CCFC H, Arena 2001, ACL

Mr Richardson can claim moral indignation that the scheme should have been CCFC's but at the end of the day CCFC would seem never to have owned anything other than an option to purchase that they let slip, or had the finance in place to follow the project through. Where that left the club was that there was no faith in its financial ability and laden with debt supported by "assets under construction" that if the project did not happen left an £18m black hole in the group accounts, which put the club at risk of administration at best. Reality is the stadium might have been the club/Richardson's dream child but because of how the clubs finances were (Mr Richardson was also responsible for those with others) they were never in control of it and had very little chance of realising it

OSB - have you been through Arena 2001 accounts?
Possibility that land went from Britsh Gas & others to Arena 2001(purchase) to HBG (debt default & then repurchase option default) to CCC over a period of years?

Thanks OSB. It all makes sense now.

Looked at them but it doesn't make it clear

Included in the Group & Arena 2001 accounts are the following additions for the assets under construction (Arena 2001 formed 1999)

1998 150,526 (pre Arena 2001)
1999 469,408
2000 11,179,496 (no details so could include a land purchase, doesn't disclose if bank loan interest capitalised. But would mean it cost probably under £10m but three years later cost £24m?)
2001 5,891,816
2002 722,932

That totals £18,414,178. (includes £1,766,975 bank loan interest that was capitalised)

Net of the interest that's similar to the 17m decontamination costs, and to the payment in kind by Tesco.

It could be as you say but if ownership passed to HBG then that would have meant effectively a sale showing up in the accounts because CCFC/Arena 2001 would no longer own it and the accounts didn't show any such sale. The full amount assets under construction were used as the investment in the joint venture (net of associated liabilities). If the land had formed part of that then why would it cost £24m in the CCC report?

possibly a premium for the sellers.
Same point could be made as to how CCC paid 24m for about 75 acres and turned round about half that to Tesco for 59m within a short time period.

interesting note in liquidator's report of Arena 2001 shows 2 main unsecured creditors were British Gas around 1.2m and CCFC 5.2m

tisza said:

possibly a premium for the sellers.
Same point could be made as to how CCC paid 24m for about 75 acres and turned round about half that to Tesco for 59m within a short time period.

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Tesco had the money at the time and were buying an building all over the country, to take out their competitors.
Also they would have got the land in a clean usable condition I would have thought, plus was the land worth more due to the arena being built there?

"It is understood that Richardson bought an option to buy the Foleshill gas works site but when that option ran out and he couldn’t raise the money to pay British Gas, the council stepped in and bought the land for £20m - including £12m to decontaminate it – and then sold it to Tesco, using the £40m profit to part-fund the construction of the stadium" Andy Turner theory apr 2012.

Date: 11th November 2013
Dear
Freedom of Information Act 2000
Thank you for requesting information about the Ricoh Arena, which the Council received on 6th November 2013. Your request has been considered under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (“The Act”).
You have requested the following information;
1. How much money did the Council contribute to the purchase of land, building the ‘Ricoh’ Arena and other costs, please include relevant dates.
The Council acquired the site on the 25th April 2003 with an onward sale to Tesco of part of the site. The Council’s contribution at that time was approximately £10,000,000. The Council used the sale proceeds from Tesco to construct the arena with a £21,000,000 loan which was repaid by the Arena Company in 2006 on completion of its lease.
2. How much money did the European Regional Development Fund/Advantage West Midlands contribute to the Ricoh: land purchase, building work and other costs.
£4,745,177 for the purpose specified in question 3. AWM contributed £4,750,000 towards the purchase of the former gasworks site for the arena project.

full link www.coventry.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/11659/20121509.pdf

Just tried to make sense of this, absolutely no idea what's going on.

Nick said:

Just tried to make sense of this, absolutely no idea what's going on.

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Me nether I will leave it to the more intellectual on here.

Astute said:

This was your previous post. And it isn't the only time you said what you are now saying that you never said.

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Brilliant, you're now quoting something where I was talking about the weird POV you and Tony have as evidence that I believe the same thing!

Astute said:

Explain one thing then. CCFC in partnership with CCC.....ACL....spent 6.8m according to the Sky Blue Trust. But Sky Blue Trust when breaking down all the amounts paid by the different parties list the CCFC amount as 1.758m. The official documents I pointed you towards agree with this amount. So if CCFC paid much more to the build costs why wasn't it stated anywhere?

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You need to stop thinking in terms of the cost of laying bricks and start thinking in terms of the project as a whole. As I said you've basically got two phases to the project, one under CCFC control, one under CCC control. The CCC document appears, quite reasonably, to only deal with income and expenditure whilst they were overseeing the project. It was during this time CCFC put in £1.758m.

However prior to that there was a company set up by CCFC that was part of CCFC Holdings group of companies specifically for the Arena project. That nets out, according the the SBT who have clearly looked at it in detail, at £6.8m. It is, I would assume, what the figure for the sale to ACL is based on.

I can clearly remember going to a presentation by BR at HR where we were shown full plans, models (complete with pitch that slid out and roof that closed) etc for the new ground. That wasn't all done free of charge.

No wonder they couldn't find the golden shares.

again i think the 1.758m refers to 50% of the initial start up of ACL - check the ACL acounts 2003.

Arena 2001 was voluntarily liquidated with no assets and with CCFC as the major creditor (5.2m).
Would not surprise me in the least if CCFC under Richardson had blown a load of money on fees for stupid designs etc. but doesn't really impact on the value / cost of the project.

chiefdave said:

Brilliant, you're now quoting something where I was talking about the weird POV you and Tony have as evidence that I believe the same thing!

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So you either said that Tescos bought the land or you didn't

chiefdave said:

No matter how many times you ask the same question the answer won't change. Show me where in the council's Arena Construction Report (Arena Construction Completion Report) it states that CCC put in £24m for the purchase of the land. The report states a total council equity investment of £10m.

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The Arena Construction Report does show the £24M land acquisition cost in Appendix 1 and it has been noted that CCC are the freeholders for the land on which the Arena stands so they must have paid that to acquire it, what other logical explanation is there?

After acquisition a part of the land was sold off to Tesco for £42.5M (plus the cost of the hideously expensive £17M decontamination contract) and the whole profit from the deal (£42.5M-£24M=£18.5M) invested in the Arena build. The £24M I presume went back from whence it came (as OSB suggests perhaps council reserves).

The £18.5M profit was used to fund the Arena. Even though the money was raised from a sale of land to Tesco could only be used to develop the Arena to compliment to the Arena Park development and the deal may have been put in place by Bryan Richardson this was an investment made by the council and it would never have happened without their involvement and support.

The council still have the land. SISU who appear to me frighteningly less competent in business matters have singularly failed to swing any such deal for a new stadium try through they might, they own a lot of debt and a Football club that keeps losing money year on year.