Astute
Well-Known Member
I got fed up of putting the official costings up. And each time I put it up there were comments about the 1.7m that CCFC had put in. And you have certainly seen it for yourself.
Richardson (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter fernandopartridge
- Start date
I got fed up of putting the official costings up. And each time I put it up there were comments about the 1.7m that CCFC had put in. And you have certainly seen it for yourself.
Astute
Well-Known Member
If you want to do a play with numbers how about doing a Google search? Type in Ricoh Arena build costs. About half way down you will get the full figures. It even shows the cost of moving the railway bridge. It shows how much was funded by the EU. And it shows we put 1.7m towards it.
Astute
Well-Known Member
No. Total amount funded by CCFC. Why not just have another look?
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
They still own the land don't they you idiot. That isn't in the cost of building is it.
* OK appendix 1
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NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
Seems like a certain former chairman becoming sadly deceased has loosened his tongue a little...
The cost of site decontamination is mentioned in general terms elsewhere. The Contaminated Land Advisor for the project (Pinnacle Consulting Engineers Ltd) says the cost of site decontamination was less than £5 million.
http://www.inogenet.com/library/CaseStudy/PDF/Foleshill_Gas_Works,_Coventry.pdf
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
What the hell are you on about?
The land acquisition was £24m but it wasn't paid by the council. The £24m is part of the total land related expenditure of £43m. There's then construction costs of £66m, and other costs of £10m. That gives a total cost for the whole project of £118.7m.
The funding for that was made up of: CCC £10m, Tesco £60m (including the interest), hotel £.5m, residual land sale £5m, borrowing £21m (repaid using the ACL lease payment), EDRF grant £4.4m, AWM grant £4.8m, casino £5.9m, ccfc £1.8m, a few other bits and pieces That gives total income of £115.8.
Those figure are all from Appendix 1 of the completion report. Where does it say the council put in £24m to purchase the land?
cloughie
Well-Known Member
Billy Liar springs to mind Mr Richardson
Astute
Well-Known Member
So you agree that CCFC never put in nearly 7m now?
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Who owns the freehold to the land, how was that paid for by magic?
CCC bought it then sold some of it on to Tesco but retained the Freehold of half the land, the bit upon which the Arena stands.
Is it Tesco or CCC that has the freehold of the land upon which the rest of Arena Park stands? Anyone been to the Land Registry to check (site down this wekend :facepalm: )
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Astute
Well-Known Member
So true. And that is why I get wound up by people defending him. I am happy for people to have a go at CCC. But defending someone so guilty as him just so they can have a go at CCC just isn't on. Others end up thinking he is innocent and feel sorry for him. If it wasn't for Richardson we would still own our own ground, CCC wouldn't have shafted us and we wouldn't be run by SISU.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
I have not a second of time for that slimy toad all of that crew were very iffy, but I did enjoy signing all the stars. The worse thing we did was to sell the ground for a short term fix.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
CCFC paid £1.758m to ACL which was I believe used for the fit out of the Ricoh. That's part of the Arena construction.
However prior to construction CCFC Holdings had a subsidiary company, Arena 2001 Ltd. Over the course over several years you can see Arena 2001 Ltd's expenditure increase.
In 2003 Arena Coventry Limited was created, a JV between CCFC and CCC. The accounts for Holdings at this point show £4.8m net costs which became the cost of investment in ACL.
At the point at which we sold our share to Higgs accounts for group netted the total investment to £6,808,425 (not sure if this includes everything spend but CCFC, CCFC Holding and Arena 2001, assume it does), that share was sold to Higgs in a deal worth £6.5m of which £2m was cash, the remainder was writing off of existing loans and repayments of loans to the likes of Robinson with agreement he immediately loaned the money back to the club. The cub had the right to buy back that share at a cost generally agreed to be in the region of £10m.
What I'm not sure about is land ownership. It is being stated the club never owned the land however in 1999 HBG Construction provide a loan to Arena 2001 Ltd using the land as security. How can this be when the club never owned the land? In 2001 the accounts show Arena 2001 Ltd no longer own the land but still list it as they have a right to buy back. It wasn't until 2003 that CCC agreed to buy the land.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
No it wasn't paid for by magic. Look at the report. The land purchase at £24 formed part of the land expenditure of £43m which in turn was part of the total build costs of £118.7m
The funding for the project as a whole shows £10m being put in by CCC.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Answer the question, who owns the freehold?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The council, that has nothing to do with how much money they put in.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
So you think they got the land from British Gas or whoever for free do you?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
No I don't, they used some of the money that came in to fund the project. It could have been the EDRF money, could have been AWM, could have been Tesco, could have used the Prudential loan. The simple fact is that their own document shows the council put in £10m of their own money.
Astute
Well-Known Member
And CCFC put in 1.78m however you word it.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I agree they were exciting times. Never thought about not being able to afford the players.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Is there any particular reason you're ignoring the £6,808,425 that is listed by the Sky Blue Trust, drawn from the various accounts lodged with companies house, and only including the £1.78m paid to ACL?
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
So you contend that the council were given many acres of land for free. You are an idiot if you think that. No in fact the council bought the land for £24M and sold a large part on to Tesco for nearly £60M, the difference and nearly £10M interest as well as £10M equity investment went into the project. That is a council investment of over £50M achieved through a shrewd business deal. They still own the land and receive rates for the commercial premises built on it. I'll tell you what that makes them look much better at business than SISU.
This is what happened to that club 'investment', it was sold to the Higgs charity.. the club put f**k all net investment in, though it is clear they paid through the nose in excessive rents to cover ACL's business for some years, a stupid position which I don't think the clubs then directors can justify.
http://www.skybluetrust.co.uk/index...c-ltd-holdings-ricoh-build-years-1993-to-2007
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Astute
Well-Known Member
Are you on drugs?
CCFC put 1.78m towards the build costs. You have seen the numbers. You even stated the same. The 1.78m wasn't paid to ACL as it didn't even exist then
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
That's a bonkers way of looking at it. Its all part of one project, thats why the council themselves have it all in one income and expenditure account in their own report! You can't separate it out the way you have it makes no sense. If the project as a whole wasn't going ahead would the council have purchased the land? Would Tesco have paid £60m?
The councils own document says they put £10m in.
Indeed it was but its still money they put up in the first place and of course in real terms (i.e.: cash) they got a lot less from Higgs than they put in. If CCFC hadn't put that money in to start off with, before anyone else was putting money in, would the stadium have even been built?
You can't really net it off like that. Where would you stop? Do you now deduct what the council have received from Wasps off their investment, what about the money they received off ACL?
Astute
Well-Known Member
CCC put in just under 13m as they covered the just under 3m overspend.
And do you honestly think that CCFC not paying the 1.78m would have been a deal breaker?
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
What point are you two trying to actually prove or are you just trying to bash the club and / or heap praise on the council? All I said originally was Richardson's POV was that he arranged the deal with Tesco and therefore he believes that should be attributed to CCFC. For some reason that seems to have sent the two of you on some strange rant.
It started off with Tesco buying the land and paying for the contamination with nothing left over.
When this was pointed out to be factually incorrect you started banging on about how much CCFC had put in. Yet you want to ignore the amount they put in prior to the council becoming involved and only count the amount they paid to ACL towards the fit out. I even asked if that was what you were referring to and you said no you were talking about the total amount put in by CCFC to the project!
Sure if you only want to look at what happened from the point the council took over you can but to be in complete denial that money was spent by the club prior to this is very odd. Its not even something that has been disputed before. The trust have been though the accounts and posted it up on their site for everyone to see but you are now denying it!
You're also got Jack claiming the council put in an additional £24m that doesn't show up anywhere in the councils own report!
Claiming that the missing money someone exists as
And now
a) no idea what this has to do with the original point and b) at no time have I said anything even remotely alluding to that.
It started off with Tesco buying the land and paying for the contamination with nothing left over.
When this was pointed out to be factually incorrect you started banging on about how much CCFC had put in. Yet you want to ignore the amount they put in prior to the council becoming involved and only count the amount they paid to ACL towards the fit out. I even asked if that was what you were referring to and you said no you were talking about the total amount put in by CCFC to the project!
Sure if you only want to look at what happened from the point the council took over you can but to be in complete denial that money was spent by the club prior to this is very odd. Its not even something that has been disputed before. The trust have been though the accounts and posted it up on their site for everyone to see but you are now denying it!
You're also got Jack claiming the council put in an additional £24m that doesn't show up anywhere in the councils own report!
Claiming that the missing money someone exists as
And now
a) no idea what this has to do with the original point and b) at no time have I said anything even remotely alluding to that.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Are you still on drugs?
CCFC put in 1.78m. You said it was nearly 7m. I told you where to see the official document. You then stated that CCFC put in 1.8m. Then later you quoted the Sky Blue Trust as stating that CCFC had put in nearly 7m again. But at the bottom of the piece it states that CCFC put in 1.758m. So now you try and change the subject and try and put me on the defence. It never works with me.
And BTW Tescos never bought the land. You are certainly showing that you haven't got a clue on what happened.
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J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Who bought the land for £24M? Answer that.
It certainly wasn't EDRF or AWM money because that is grant money which is supplied for a specific business development purpose, not to buy land or the local council. That would be illegal funding!
It certainly wasn't EDRF or AWM money because that is grant money which is supplied for a specific business development purpose, not to buy land or the local council. That would be illegal funding!
Astute
Well-Known Member
He seems to think that Tescos bought the land and then says that they paid to contaminate it
And if you say what the truth is you are against CCFC or heaping praise on CCC. If I was wrong you would have certain people on here wanting me to put my hands up and admit that I am wrong. But because it is someone who is twisting the truth at best to have a go at CCC.......
BackRoomRummermill
Well-Known Member
The whole lot are a bunch of slippery dodgey xxxxxx who have sucked money and lived a high life on the back of a working mans sport and club.
when you mix this whole fiasco up it stinks and the worst of it they make out they were doing it for the fans
these pricks have been laughing their cocks off syphoning money away from the club to feed their ill gained moment of fame over a bag of air kicked about on field
a disgrace of the highest order, it happens at other clubs too as we know, but the dimise of CCFC in particular has been a complete and utter tradegy for the supporters and in particular to the long standing loyal season ticket holders who invested in this club , with NO return and just heartache.
when you mix this whole fiasco up it stinks and the worst of it they make out they were doing it for the fans
these pricks have been laughing their cocks off syphoning money away from the club to feed their ill gained moment of fame over a bag of air kicked about on field
a disgrace of the highest order, it happens at other clubs too as we know, but the dimise of CCFC in particular has been a complete and utter tradegy for the supporters and in particular to the long standing loyal season ticket holders who invested in this club , with NO return and just heartache.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
No matter how many times you ask the same question the answer won't change. Show me where in the council's Arena Construction Report (Arena Construction Completion Report) it states that CCC put in £24m for the purchase of the land. The report states a total council equity investment of £10m.
Are you actually going to answer the question:
It's pretty simple. There were basically 2 phases to the project, one when it was under the control of CCFC and the other when it was under the control of CCC. There is little crossover between the two other than the formalities of winding down one company. According to the accounts filed at Companies House whilst under the control of CCFC a total of £6,808,425:
Sky Blue Trust / Companies House CCFC Group Accs 2003 & 2004 said:
Then we enter a second phase with a new company, Coventry North Regeneration, created by CCC. Into that company CCFC paid £1,758,000, although the accounts state it was paid to, and retained by, ACL.
In which case the council's report is incorrect (are you sure you aren't think of ACL (2006)?):
CCC Arena Construction Completion Report said:
FFS I keep saying Tesco didn't buy the land!
smouch1975
Well-Known Member
I see what you are saying Dave, but why are you insisting that 6 million of investment must be carried over or recognised from the old wound up company into the new?
Perhaps it was in the form of the buy back options the club never exercised?
Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk
Perhaps it was in the form of the buy back options the club never exercised?
Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk
