revenue streams (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter wes_cov
- Start date
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
People also need to start decoupling "Were in Northampton" with "need for revenues".
The point is that the club feel they need to build a new ground or own the Ricoh long term. The ground share is a strategy for acquiring the Ricoh, not a solution to the revenue problem.
The point is that the club feel they need to build a new ground or own the Ricoh long term. The ground share is a strategy for acquiring the Ricoh, not a solution to the revenue problem.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Obviously moving to Northampton is nothing to do with revenues so this bit is irrelevant but the club do need access to them and needs to be part of any deal back to ricoh which I still believe will happen before the first home game this season.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It will count as revenue under FFP. People need to accept that the club would be an umberella company under whoever owned them but in essence they would be one company.
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
How much rent will CCFC pay for this essence ?????
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Irrelevant if its one pence or one million - that's the benefit of the arrangement.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Mr Creosote
New Member
Sponsorship £2m per annum (naming rights etc.)
All of the Compass related income £14m per annum (C&E, Events, Hotel, car parking etc.)
Concerts £1m per annum (when they get them back)
Tenants £1m per annum (Casino and other available office accommodation)
Cant think of any other at the moment, but this is what the greedy little piggy's are after.....
All of the Compass related income £14m per annum (C&E, Events, Hotel, car parking etc.)
Concerts £1m per annum (when they get them back)
Tenants £1m per annum (Casino and other available office accommodation)
Cant think of any other at the moment, but this is what the greedy little piggy's are after.....
So theres 18million a year . Hardly a "worthless" company is it ?
Get your money out SISU and just buy the Higgs out FFS .
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Off course it's relevant. What's the point of having say £5m allowed to be invested in the squad under FFP rules if only couple of hundred thousand is available to invest in the squad because the rest has gone to ARVO by way of rent, interest payments, match day cost and licence fee's while the rest go to sisu in management fees, legal costs (let's face it, as long as sisu are here we're bound to be taking someone to court) etc.
Besides which you still have no idea if any sisu owned stadium will be under the same umbrella as the club as sisu don't want to confirm this.
They've left a lot to be assumed and our experience of our owners should tell any CCFC fan to assume the worse to avoid disappointment later. But yet some don't. Amazing.
For all you know taking a reasonable rent offer of ACL with access to match day revenues could be the best option long term for the club.
Still if sisu were to lay down the terms for the club at a sisu owned stadium we'd be able as fans to make an informed decision and more importantly they might just get us ALL onside. Strange that they won't?
It's almost like they won't because they know it will do the opposite so it's best to release a few noncommittal statements and the stupid supporters of CCFC will assume the best as they're all neanderthals who hang on our every word. Hence, every game at Suxfields is a sell out.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
SISU have forgone all local (Coventry based) sponsorship by moving to Sixfields. Except that copier shop (big deal) not!
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skybluebeduff
Well-Known Member
[video=youtube;SBmAPYkPeYU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBmAPYkPeYU[/video]
Hard to find a song that sums it all all up!
But I think I finally found it!
Hard to find a song that sums it all all up!
But I think I finally found it!
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Total, unfounded nonsense.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
You may well be right about that, but also we have no guarantee that a future owner wouldn't do exactly the same, and if previous owners are a measure I would expect subsequent owners to act pretty similarly.
So in order to remove our reliance on owners like SISU we have to be in a position where we can stand on our own two feet. Why on earth would any Coventry fan not want the club to have access to all the revenue it generates on matchday, as well as all the revenue generated at their home stadium, as some of that will be there due to the presence of a professional football club. The model makes total sense.
Yes this could be a good starting point, but long term it is not sustainable. Best scenario is that the football club have control of everything. Freehold ownership is not mandatory to achieve this, but 100% ownership of ACL is. SISU have to pay for this to happen, and should pay a FAIR price. Which means negotiation on both sides.
This for me has to be the long term goal.
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
So if CCFC are paying Arvo 1.8million a year in interest + 1million for rent which = 2.8million.
How much turnover would be required to generate 2.8 million profit to pay Sisu/Arvo alone ???
Do some sums Grendel !!!
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
So you have a link then to where sisu have set out all the details of CCFC tenancy in a sisu owned stadium and how this would be what's best for the club?
The reason I ask is because if they could provide a transparent, coherent plan that demonstrates that they are acting in the best interests of the club I might have to reconsider my stance on boycotting sixfields. I dare say I wouldn't be alone either.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
That's all fair comment Ian.
All we have to do now is convince sisu to stop burning bridges and start building them
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Grendel I'm looking forward to seeing your explanation ?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
We were paying £1 million in rent not now unless you have had some cosy chats with ML in Luton and he has told you this? Interest is interest on a loan which will not change anyway and none of this effects FFP. Satisfied?
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
Hobo
Well-Known Member
I am sure Arvo will get their money whether we make a profit or not.
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
I wasn't aware that sixfields is costing 1million a year in rent.
CCFC needs to be sustainable do you not agree ??
Anyway how can finding 2.8 million each year to pay Sisu/Arvo be irrelevant. What's the point of FFP if the extra revenue can't be spent on having a competitive team ???
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Exactly John. It's just another sisu red herring/empty promise that some are buying hook line and sinker.
They've bought into the pretense of sisu and their "master plan" providing the club with tons of cash available to invest in the team because they've mentioned FFP in a few random blabberings without them even saying that what FFP rules dictate is available will a available.
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Hobo
Well-Known Member
We will come under SCMP rules, wages 60 per cent of turnover. Here is the Guide:
Salary Cost Management Protocol (SCMP) explained
Clubs in the League 1 and League 2 operate within a Spending Constraint framework termed Salary Cost Management Protocol (SMCP). SCMP limits spending on player wages to a percentage of club Turnover. In League 1 clubs can spend a maximum of 60% of their turnover on wages - in League 2, the limit is 55%. There are no restrictions (in themselves) on the amount a club can lose or spend on transfer fees.
Initially introduced into League 2 in 2004/5 for guidance purposes, sanctions for breaching the SCMP thresholds were introduced during the 2011/12 season, with Swindon the first club to be sanctioned under the rules.
The process is interactive with clubs providing the Football League with projections for the spending for the coming season. During the season the clubs provide regular updates on their Turnover and wage bill. Any club that is forecasting a wage spend within 5% of the figure will be scrutinised more closely. Where a club is on course to exceed the limits, the Football League will apply a Transfer Embargo. Crucially, a club doesn't have to overspend to incur the embargo, it only needs to shown to be heading for an overspend. This interactive approach enables clubs to increase their wage bill if their circumstances improve - a successful cup run will generate increased income and the Football League may be able to sanction additional wage spend. Because SCMP doesn't rely on the retrospective scrutiny of club accounts, it is also extremely effective at stopping overspend before the spending actually occurs (something that has been a problem for the Championship's version of FFP).
The Football League's website's explanation of the rules doesn't go into a great deal of detail about how they operate. However they have responded to enquiries and confirmed a number of areas that help us to better understand the rules.
Relegated clubs
The rules apply to all clubs and there is no moratorium for clubs relegated from the Championship. However, Transitional Arrangements are in place whereby clubs are allowed to exclude the wage costs of all players that the club signed pre September of the relegation season, if they were signed on contracts in excess of 3 seasons.
Turnover definition
Under the SCMP rules, the definition of 'Turnover' is particularly important as Turnover is used to determine the maximum wage-spend. Within a traditional accounting perspective, there are usually only three elements of turnover:
Match-day Income
Commercial Income (such as sponsorship)
TV revenue (and any 'merit payments' based on league position)
However the Football League use a is broader definition of Turnover. Crucially, the FL Turnover figure includes donations from the owners to the club and injections of equity. Loans from club owners are understandably not included in the Turnover figure as these would result in growing club debts. up club debts. In League 1 and League 2, a wealthy owner can therefore fund the club spending in a way that is not permitted in other divisions. Manchester City and Leicester for example seem set for punishment for their excessive losses (from UEFA and the Championship respectively) despite the fact that the owners have injected hard cash into the club to finance the spending.
Profit on player sales
Any profit made on player sales is included withinTurnover on a cash basis when the instalments are received.
Player Wages and deductions
Under SCMP, 'Wages' relates to player wages only (director remuneration and general club staff wages are not included in the SCMP calculation). Player wages included in the SCMP calculation relate to all contract players (full contract, non-contract, multiplicity etc.) and loan players. Wage costs for players loaned out to other clubs are deducted for the period of the loan. Wage costs for Youth players on a professional contract are also excluded (i.e. players that have been in the club’s Youth Development scheme and have been given a pro contract); they must be 20 years of age or under at the start of the season to be discounted from the SCMP calculation.
Direct Costs incurred within Turnover
Within Turnover, clubs can include such things as Hospitality/Banqueting income (whether it is match day or non-match day income). The direct costs have to be deducted to reach a figure that is submitted on the SCMP return. For Hospitality/Banqueting for example, the Direct costs are all costs directly attributable to put on a hospitality/banqueting event. This would include food & beverage, direct staff and cleaning costs such as laundry etc.
Salary Cost Management Protocol (SCMP) explained
Clubs in the League 1 and League 2 operate within a Spending Constraint framework termed Salary Cost Management Protocol (SMCP). SCMP limits spending on player wages to a percentage of club Turnover. In League 1 clubs can spend a maximum of 60% of their turnover on wages - in League 2, the limit is 55%. There are no restrictions (in themselves) on the amount a club can lose or spend on transfer fees.
Initially introduced into League 2 in 2004/5 for guidance purposes, sanctions for breaching the SCMP thresholds were introduced during the 2011/12 season, with Swindon the first club to be sanctioned under the rules.
The process is interactive with clubs providing the Football League with projections for the spending for the coming season. During the season the clubs provide regular updates on their Turnover and wage bill. Any club that is forecasting a wage spend within 5% of the figure will be scrutinised more closely. Where a club is on course to exceed the limits, the Football League will apply a Transfer Embargo. Crucially, a club doesn't have to overspend to incur the embargo, it only needs to shown to be heading for an overspend. This interactive approach enables clubs to increase their wage bill if their circumstances improve - a successful cup run will generate increased income and the Football League may be able to sanction additional wage spend. Because SCMP doesn't rely on the retrospective scrutiny of club accounts, it is also extremely effective at stopping overspend before the spending actually occurs (something that has been a problem for the Championship's version of FFP).
The Football League's website's explanation of the rules doesn't go into a great deal of detail about how they operate. However they have responded to enquiries and confirmed a number of areas that help us to better understand the rules.
Relegated clubs
The rules apply to all clubs and there is no moratorium for clubs relegated from the Championship. However, Transitional Arrangements are in place whereby clubs are allowed to exclude the wage costs of all players that the club signed pre September of the relegation season, if they were signed on contracts in excess of 3 seasons.
Turnover definition
Under the SCMP rules, the definition of 'Turnover' is particularly important as Turnover is used to determine the maximum wage-spend. Within a traditional accounting perspective, there are usually only three elements of turnover:
Match-day Income
Commercial Income (such as sponsorship)
TV revenue (and any 'merit payments' based on league position)
However the Football League use a is broader definition of Turnover. Crucially, the FL Turnover figure includes donations from the owners to the club and injections of equity. Loans from club owners are understandably not included in the Turnover figure as these would result in growing club debts. up club debts. In League 1 and League 2, a wealthy owner can therefore fund the club spending in a way that is not permitted in other divisions. Manchester City and Leicester for example seem set for punishment for their excessive losses (from UEFA and the Championship respectively) despite the fact that the owners have injected hard cash into the club to finance the spending.
Profit on player sales
Any profit made on player sales is included withinTurnover on a cash basis when the instalments are received.
Player Wages and deductions
Under SCMP, 'Wages' relates to player wages only (director remuneration and general club staff wages are not included in the SCMP calculation). Player wages included in the SCMP calculation relate to all contract players (full contract, non-contract, multiplicity etc.) and loan players. Wage costs for players loaned out to other clubs are deducted for the period of the loan. Wage costs for Youth players on a professional contract are also excluded (i.e. players that have been in the club’s Youth Development scheme and have been given a pro contract); they must be 20 years of age or under at the start of the season to be discounted from the SCMP calculation.
Direct Costs incurred within Turnover
Within Turnover, clubs can include such things as Hospitality/Banqueting income (whether it is match day or non-match day income). The direct costs have to be deducted to reach a figure that is submitted on the SCMP return. For Hospitality/Banqueting for example, the Direct costs are all costs directly attributable to put on a hospitality/banqueting event. This would include food & beverage, direct staff and cleaning costs such as laundry etc.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
And here is the crux of it. This is where the money can be made.
EDIT: If it's enough revenue to deem ACL a 'sustainable business' then it's enough for the club to want to have it.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
The other thing I'm not sure about is commercial income? They example sponsorship, but surely it could include any rentals? I am sure Northampton are benefitting from us!
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The way Id had it explained to me was that it's any revenue from the stadium, eg car boots, concerts, ground shares. But not anything like say, CCFC buy a hotel elsewhere or something.
Not sure where the football stadium ends and the arena begins TBH, you can probably claim at least the hotel and conference rooms if not the whole thing.
Would any development on, for example Car Park C be counted for example? I assume any profits from selling the land would be. Also, what's to stop any owner "gifting" the club millions and charging it back?
My guess is a lot of these things will need to be tested.